Unable to record to VCR/DVD Recorder from ExpressVu 3500 STBs

  • Thread starter Thread starter dbman1207
  • Start date Start date
I have a Liteon DVD recorder which I purchased to replace my older VCR.
My Express Vu 3500 receiver has 2 sets of video outputs and I am taking one of the video outputs and feeding my DVD recorder.
 
This can depend on the recording device. Some of the earlier DVD recorders and probably many VCRs don't "recognize" the CGMS-A signal and would therefore record. Most of the newer equipment does recognize CGMS-A, if that's what the issue is, and therefore show the "Cannot Record (or whatever)" screen (which needs to be programmed into the device).

The fact that no-one else has complained about this in 10 days is rather odd though. dbman1207 try a cold reboot (unplug/replug) of the STB and the Recorder.

If people do report back with a DVD recorder that does work, please provide the make/model.
 
Maybe I'm jsut cynical or a conspiracy theorist, but I KNOW Bell did this on purpose to try and force people to buy their PVRs. Do you think you can get around these Record Block Signals with something like a SIMA CT-200 video enhancer?
 
dbman1207 - try one of the free barker channels like 198 and see what happens.

I have a Panasonic E50 DVD-R that i often use to record content (and to address another question, you can record HD content on this setup, although the resolution obviously won't be HD, but the DVD-R gets the signal as WS and squashes it so you can stretch it on playback - the downside is that you essentially have to have a WS TV in order to view it that way. You can also set the output to 4x3 and record 4x3 for standard tv playback)

I've heard rumours of this now and then in the U.S. when they turn on the broadcast flag by mistake - everyone freaks out.

a) it could be user error
b) it could be something unique to dbman1207's setup
c) it could be a test by Bell
d) it could be an accident by Bell

This is the sort of thing that the new Prentice act wants to allow I believe.

I'll fire up my DVD-R (I forget how I have it connected, svideo(does the 9200 have that I forget) or composite) and attempt a recording later tonight.
 
I have my 6100 connected by S-video to my Pioneer DVD-R (don't remember the model number, I'm at work right now). The only thing I've recorded recently was the overtime of the Russia/Netherlands soccer game on Saturday and that worked fine.
 
Please read the link in post 12 of this thread where that type of option has already been discussed. The links in the other thread contain answers to your questions, what works, etc. Click on the links there.
 
I'll throw this question out to the group...

Is it possible that Bell can somehow include Macrovision on the analog outputs that the DVD recorder "interprets" as copy protected???

dbman: If it is macrovision, you may want to google and see if there is a hack to make your liteon "ignore" macrovision protection.
 
Can we get a second confirmation on that before saying its for sure. The problem with the 3500 has been corroborated and Bell seems to admit it but we have not corroborated it on the 4100.
 
Here is another interesting fact. My Express Vu receiver has a RF output that works on channel 3 or 4. When I looped the RF from my receiver to the RF input on my DVD recorder I get the same results as I do when trying to record from the video out of the receiver
 
THIS PROBLEM IS REAL!!!

My parents use a 3500 receiver for many years. Every day they timeshift Fairchild TV with a VCR. On Friday 27 June, the recordings were ruined by Macrovision copy protection. I've tried multiple VCRs and they all show the same unwatchable lightening and darkening of Macrovision.

A 4100 receiver on the same account records perfectly on the same VCRs.

More details of the 3500 problem:
I've tried a couple different channels and they all have Macrovision. Even the Galaxie audio channels, the program guide, and the menus show Macrovision when recorded.

This may coincide with a Software version change. I don't remember the old version number, but the current version is: E610BAPA-N
I think it has changed because I've noticed new functionality in the user interface. On the old software, pressing INFO cuts out the picture and sound and shows the info on a coloured background. On the current software, the info is displayed on a transparent background over the live picture and sound, just like all modern receivers.
​

To dbman1207:
If you have a technical contact at Bell regarding this problem, maybe you could inquire again with the following arguments:
Why are all channels are affected rather than just premium and PPV?
Bell and other satellite and cable companies might get pressure from program providers to turn on copy protection, but that is usually for PPV special events and the premium channels.

Why is only my receiver model affected and not those of other people?
In this thread, people have successfully recorded from the 9200 5900 3100 6100 and 4100 receivers. If you know other people with Bell Expressvu, you could try recording with your DVD recorder on their setup to strengthen your argument.​

My guess is that Bell accidentally turned on copy protection for all channels when they updated the 3500 software. Is there a regular Bell technical contact in the forums for problems like this?

On the other hand, if what the Bell reps told dbman1207 is true, we should be worried. If they have a new policy of blocking all recordings, this behavior will spread to all the other receiver models eventually.
 
I have an LG DVD Recorder and I cannot record anything to the HD on this unit, through either my 3500 or 4100 since June 15 when Bell did their software update. I now have "record-blocking signals detected" across all channels, and I'm not happy about it.
 
Although some people who've been around the forum for a long time don't appear to be aware of it, there is something called CGMS-A, which precludes recording of "analogue" programming so-flagged. See the following thread on the topic and a way "around" this:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=44045 Read the links in post 1.

I suppose it's possible that BEV is sending this CGMS-A signal for all channels, since certainly all programming is not so flagged (usually just premium programming like TMN movies, etc). It's also possible that they have done this in error... You may wish to escalate this within BEV since they probably shouldn't be doing this and will make a lot of people with VCRs and DVD Recorders quite angry.
 
I don't think and wouldn't expect this forum to be misrepresented as contact with bell.

If you need to contact bell tech support, you'd better do it through bell.

I gave up recording to VCR about 2 years ago. The DVR with built in hard drive is great.

Good Luck!!
 
dbman, you keep adding stuff which makes this very confusing.

You said your VCR can't record anymore but now you've added in the fact that you can't record to a new DVD recorder.

The question is "can you still record to your VCR and if not, when did the problem begin?"

If Bell suddenly started preventing folks from outputting to their DVD recorders several weeks ago then I am extremely surprised that this is the first time we are hearing about it.

Many members here use DVD recorders with Bell on a daily basis
 
To dbman1207:
That's great that they acknowledged the problem on their part. Let's hope they don't take too long to fix it.

To axe1112:
I think that dbman1207 only has a 3500 so Bell ExpressVu might not know about your problems with the 4100. If you haven't talked to customer service, you probably should.

I've had problems recording on a 3500, but now I record on a 4100 on the same account with no problems. In fact, I just checked today's recording and it looks fine. I am using a VHS VCR though.

There are two ways to block recording from a cable or satellite set-top box or DVD player:

Macrovision has existed since the prerecorded videotape days. By corrupting the analog video outside the visible picture area, it causes VHS VCRs to record poorly, with the picture lightening and darkening over several seconds. Modern DVD-R and hard drive recorders detect this corruption and refuse to record.​

CGMS-A is more recent. It is a code inserted into the Vertical Blanking Interval, the blank area above the visible picture. This area also contains other data such as the closed captioning text. While VHS VCRs are completely unaffected, DVD-R and hard drive recorders detect this code and refuse to record.​

Both of these methods are transmitted outside the MPEG-compressed digital video data. The STB or DVD player has to generate these two signals directly, which is why software changes can affect the behaviour.

If your DVD-R hard drive recorder has worked perfectly until now, they must have turned on the CGMS-A signal for all channels on the 4100. If you have an old VCR, try recording to see if works on the 4100 and not the 3500. If so, this would confirm what I observe.

Are both the 4100 and 3500 connected to the DVD-R hard drive recorder at same time? If so, unplug the 3500 and see if you can record from the 4100 alone. Maybe the copy protection from the 3500 is blocking the recording even if the 4100's input is selected.
 
Thanks BeeDub for your input.
You are having the same problems that I am having.
I have been in touch will a Bell Customer relations person and they assure me that Bell is doing nothing to prevent me from recording their signal.
Bell has offered to have a technical supervisor to go over the set-up of my system with me to see if they can trouble shoot the problem.
 
For what it's worth...

I just made a recording on the weekend of The Magic of Flight from Rush HD via my BEV PVR receiver (9200) to my Sony Hard Drive/DVD recorder (RDR HX900). I had to downrez of course to 480i but otherwise it worked fine. Video hookup was through component video by the way.

I do this kind of procedure quite frequently. I've never had any copy protection kind of message.
 
Thanks for your thoughts, Dub. No, the two units are not connected, in fact, one is in my house, the other in my workshop.

I have not had any difficulty recording to VHS on my Hitachi VCR, but the CGMS-A block IS still transfered because I cannot, then, record from the video tape to the DVD recorder.

I am still hoping someone here can answer my question: Will a video stabilizer, like the SIMA CT-200, get around this problem? Apparently the CT-200 will allow you to record store bought or rental DVDs to a DVD burner. Seems to me this would also scrub the CGMS-A from the satellite signal..no?

Axeman
 
To dbman1207:

If this problem seems to be an honest mistake on Bell's part, maybe you should take up their offer of assistance from a technical supervisor.

Tell them specifically that another 3500 owner has the same problem. If you need me to contact the Bell technical supervisor on your behalf, please let me know.
 
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