Toon Zone Talkback - "Transformers Cybertron" Best Transformers in a Decade

H

harajukubarbiie<3

New member
This is the talkback thread for "Transformers Cybertron" Best Transformers in a Decade.
splash_tfcybertronlg.jpg


Wow, Duke... did we watch the same show? I had a difficult time watching Cybertron. I'll agree it wasn't as bad as Armada or Energon, but if there was ever an award for a kids' show that most resembled a toy commercial, Cybertron would take top honors.

I'll grant that it IS a kids show and I'm in my late 30s, but there should've at least been something about the show that made it worthwhile for "old skool" Transformers fans. You mentioned the action emphasis in the show, and I'll agree that the series did have that in spades compared with Armada and Energon, but the battle scenes mostly seem like quickies and they never show much damage. That lack of detail sucks.

I'll also agree that Cybertron had a decent storyline, and that at least made it more watchable than Armada and Energon, but ah... that's not saying much.

I tried giving this show a chance... tried really hard. The toyline was great--some of the highest-quality Hasbro had ever produced up to that time. But the show had more flaws than just the annoying and distracting human element and some bad dubbing and dialog. The constant, overdone transformation sequences (mostly to highlight the Cyberkey gimmick) were nothing more than toy commercials and show filler, and they occur so often that even if I was a kid I think they would get old real fast. Also, the lip sync for the TFs rarely syncs with the dialog at all--the lip flap is so poorly animated that it would even be distracting with the original Japanese dialog. It's like watching a toddler trying to manipulate a puppet.

I also can't stand the theme song, except for that cool guitar riff at the end. And the theme is used so often during the TF sequences and battles that it really gets old quick.

I'll agree that the design is nice, even if the CGI elements clash harshly against the traditional 2D animation. The cel shading just isn't enough to help it blend. I can't believe that even though it's been nearly a decade since Iron Giant was released there still isn't an animation company able to replicate the seamless blend of CGI and 2D from that movie. (10 years and no progress is just sad.) Another design plus is that the character models look just like the toys, something to this day that a lot of G1 fans hate about the original toys because they looked NOTHING like their show counterparts. I remember the first time I found the original Ratchet and Ironhide toys in the store after seeing them on the show and thinking, "What the @#$% are these GoBots doing in Transformers packaging?"

But the two things I most disagree with in your review are:

1) Your heading: "Best Transformers in a Decade"
You mention Transformers Animated in passing at the beginning of your article, but reading your review makes me wonder if you've even watched more than an episode or two. If you watched the epic Season 2 conclusion, that episode alone was the "best Transformers in a decade". And I realize there are TF fans who would disagree with me, but from a quality standpoint, TFA may genuinely be the best Transformers series ever.

2) Your closing summary: "Overall, will this series trump Beast Wars? No. I highly doubt anything from this franchise will ever top Season 2 of that series."
Transformers Animated has already trumped Beast Wars for an overwhelming majority of fans, and TFA's Season 2 conclusion was amazing. And it by far topped BW Season 2 for me.

But I realize all this is my humble opinion. Your review is much more objective than mine would've been.

I have a hard time recommending Cybertron to other fans, except as maybe something for TF fans desperate for a Transformers fix. I just don't think it's worth the purchase price. At best (especially with no bonus content), it's a decent rental solely on the merits of Primus' appearance in the series. For any TF fan, that's definitely worth seeing. I'll admit to totally geeking out during the Primus transformation sequence, and his subsequent battles with Super Starscream are pretty friggin awesome. (That's not enough reason to justify spending $40 on this box set though.)

And if I'm not mistaken, it doesn't even include the original Japanese audio tracks. Yet another reason it's not worth paying retail.

But I'm planning to give the series another shot anyway, because after TFA Season 1 comes out on DVD this month, I'll need something to get my own Transformers fix until Season 3 starts.

The toy's the same way. It's what TF fans refer to as a "shellformer". It's a lazy design element that thankfully isn't used that often by Hasbro, but is frequently used by competing and similar toy lines.
 
Shouldn't this be in the anime forum? Just saying is all...

EDIT: Anyways, like Duke, I actually really enjoyed the show, but the experience really was so far limited to the Japanese version. I'm only vaguely familiar with the english release, but from what I saw it wasn't that bad. While I don't think this would be particularly the best Transformers series in this timeline, but it's still pretty up there.
 
It should be in both (as well as the DVD Discussion forum). Even though Cybertron's an English-dubbed anime series, thanks to Hasbro Transformers is well-established as a US franchise (even though it originated in Japan).
 
I really enjoyed marathoning Cybertron. I bought the box set the MOMENT I spotted it, no questions asked. I had enjoyed the first half I had seen long ago on KidsWB and was glad to finally see the end.

The dubbing in the begining and a few other spots is really rough (episode splicing and trying to connect to Energon mainly) but the story hold itself well enough.

A few things did bother me...starting from 'Revelation' onward it feels like 10 episodes of non-stop battling and running around from one place to the next, like a bad message board RPG. Plus I think you can make a drinking game out of the many MANY time either Optimus or Megatron shouted 'IT'S ALL OVER!!!'. I like Gary Chalk and David Kayes a lot but after a while, especially during a marathon, it gets a bit tiring. Still the battles were pretty cool at time. I also wish the Cobybot had been used more :p

I haven't seen TFA yet but I'd say Cybertron is arguably the best Transformers show between Beast Wars and TFA. It also has the best humans and the best Starscream ever! (Not counting TFA since I haven't seen it to judge) He's actually COMPETANT AND A REAL THREAT! His final fight with Galvatron was epic!
 
Actually, the dub explanation was taken from Japanese supplemental material. Canonically, it was caused by Unicron in both versions, the Japanese version just doesn't mention it.
 
I really don't like like Cybertron. The Australian accents (not that's there's anything wrong with them) got on my nerves. The CGI was weird. Hand drawn animation, please.:sad:
 
In the Japanese version the Transformers didn't defeat Unicron. Unicron just never existed in that universe, throwing it out of whack.
 
I think that splash should read "Cybertron's the Most Confusing Transformers Series in a Decade."

I mean, really, I couldn't understand the plot for half the episodes, never mind the ridiculous addition of like 50 robots to the main cast by the end of the series.

That was my only real complaint, though. Aside from a few pacing issues, it's a solid watch after you view it a couple more times and get all the characters and plot holes figured out.
 
I thought this was terrible too, I only saw a handful of episodes but it was only slightly not as bad as Energon, which I saw more of and hated. The CGI and 2D still didn't mesh well( though improved from Energon ), the characters were still annoying, and the plot of an individual episode was hard to follow.
 
Whoa, if he thinks this is the best show in a decade, he hasn't watched Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and Animated. Those are all vastly superior shows. Cybertron was terrible with its horrendous voice acting to the point that they skipped over episodes to make it be in the same universe as Armada. Not to mention the three kids did not sound 11, 13, and 15, but rather 18-20.

Oh yeah, and I don't get this:



Did he not know those shots were added in by Hasbro?
 
See now, I LOVED that.


Transformers: Animated was created and aired after Cybertron, therefore it doesn't count. T:A would merely be "The best Transformers since Cybertron."


Well, you could argue that the TFs (or Primus in ancient times and it just took this long for the consequences) fought Unicron before the series started, just a different Unicron than Armada/Energon.


It's been a decade since Beast Wars (Which, as I already said, I find Season 2 to be the ultimate TF), I explained earlier that T:A comes after Cybertron and therefore doesn't count, and Beast Machines had Jetstorm/Silverbolt as its ONLY good point. Everything else was one long, giant, steaming pile of horse crap. The plot sucked, the designs sucked even worse, and the new characters somehow out-horribled Cheetor, who was the worst returning character in the show. Armada may have been horrible, but at least it gave us a Unicron toy. Beast Machines didn't even give us that.
 
http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/table.html
(bottom timeline)

Some of the early Japanese merchindise also indicates that the series was supposed to be in-continuty with the other series. Due to some appearent miscommunication with Hasbo, the writers turned it into a reboot. The Japanese version later trying to fix the problem by including the "Unicron blew up" explaination in a DVD insert. (you can see it in the timeline above, too)

The American version simply used the explaination within the series, making the whole thing less of a mess.
 
Only because now you've clarified your timeframe. When you have a headline like "Best Transformers in a Decade," we readers can only assume you mean "in the last 10 years," not "since Season 2 of Beast Wars aired" as you're now saying. And the last 10 years includes the first two seasons of Transformers Animated.

And yes, I realize I'm nitpicking, but from other comments made here I'm not the only one who thought that's what you were saying.

I would actually kinda/sorta agree that it's the best series since Beast Wars, even though I found Beast Machines much more enjoyable than Cybertron on the story aspect alone. I hated how the series ended, but if you view it as a stand-alone series well outside of TF continuity, the series as a whole is pretty danged entertaining.

Also, your analogy is flawed to say that TFA is "merely the best Transformers since Cybertron" because it's the ONLY TV series since Cybertron.
 
Please, Cybertron came before Animated and ended before Animated. The review was written to complement the DVD release of Cybertron, but seeing that the series ended in 2005/06, the decade would cover 1995/96- 2005/06. It's better to actually read the review in context, and everything Duke says about it is true. Cybertron was the best Transformers series since Beast Wars, and some might say it was better than Beast wars season 3. Beast Machines had the potential, but the horrible writing and the alterations to the character designs killed it. Robots in Disguise was pretty funny, but it almost lacked a story all together. Armada and Energon really only had Unicron. I would take Cybertron over Animated actually as well. Animated has the writers which enhance the stories, but Cybertron had the better animation and better voices. The search for the keys is epic, the upgrades are cool, and the way they get new weapons keeps the series more interesting. You also have quite possibly the best Starscream ever. I understand where you're coming from, but Cybertron as a whole is infinitely superior to Beast Machines, RiD, Armada, and Energon.
 
I thought I made it pretty clear throughout the review that I was talking about the 10-year-old Beast Wars.

Basically, my opinion of the TF series from Beast Wars to Cybertron goes like this:

Beast Wars: Good to Epic Awesome to Great
Beast Machines: Some minor good parts mixed with loads and loads of epic fail.
Robots in Disguise: Decent.
Armada: Crap.
Energon: Crap plus Epic Fail.
Cybertron: Freaking Awesome.


Hence why its the best. XD
 
I still feel there hasn't been a good Transformers series since Beast Wars/Beast Machines. Which I think ended about 7 years ago.
 
No, even in context the title appears misleading.

But then, Duke may have done that headline intentionally because it would suck in diehard TF fans like myself who would read the headline and say "WTF? No @#$%ing way!" and immediately rush into the forum to type out a rebuttal with much gnashing of teeth.

Either way, Duke's fully clarified and defended his point, and I have no desire to beat that part of the discussion any further into the ground.

As I said, I was planning to give the series another shot anyway. But I still cannot agree that Cybertron has much of anything over Transformers Animated.

Make a list of positives and negatives comparing both shows, and from a quality standpoint Cybertron has a much longer laundry list of negatives.

Wow. You got some facts to back up that statement?

I'll grant that the design style of TFA takes some getting used to, but I can deal with that any day over the horribly clashing 2D and 3D elements in Cybertron.

And to say that Cybertron had "better voices"? My oh my.

From both an industry and overall fan standpoint, TFA's voice acting is superior to Cybertron. You're comparing Cybertron's mostly anime dubbers (and the problems that come with Cybertron being a dub with poor lip synch, odd character voice choices, and it's a rewrite too) to performances by some of the top cartoon voice actors in the business: Tara Strong, Tom Kenny, Bill Fagerbakke, Jeff Bennett, Cree Summer, Townsend Coleman, and Corey Burton (who's a VA legend as far as I'm concerned, and has offered some exceptionally fine voice acting on TFA too).

Even David Kaye (who's certainly no stranger to TF series) offers a fresh perspective on a younger, less experienced Optimus Prime who's growing into his role as a leader.

The actors have much better scripts, dialog and direction to work with, and there are very few voices on TFA that are anything as annoying as some of Cybertron's. While you may have enjoyed Jetfire's Aussie accent, most fans found it annoying and distracting. And the so-called "Southern" accents used for some Cybertron characters are more of the same. Cybertron would've benefited greatly from better voice casting and direction.

Furthermore, TFA's G1 references and homages are well-placed and give the show an extra layer for old skool fans like myself to appreciate. The story arcs have been intriguing and keep fans coming back for more. The human element isn't overpowering as it has been with previous series, although Sari's key is rather overused as a plot device, and some of the human villains are pretty lame but comedic enough to be entertaining. And the characterizations are much more established and consistent than they have been in most previous series (especially so over G1).

And it doesn't seem so much like a toy commercial either.

As I said, from a quality standpoint, the odds stack in favor of TFA well above Cybertron. And even as amazing as a handful of episodes from BW S2 were, TFA's S2 conclusion was the sort of epic story and action that TF fans have constantly been clamoring to see. If you haven't seen it, I don't want to spoil it for you. But when I say it's epic, it's HUGE. It's a two-part episode full of fantastic and surprising plot reveals, character-defining moments, Megatron unleashed, Starscream VS Megatron, a Decepticon army airstrike, and at least three major G1 characters make their first appearances on the series...and two of them especially make a grand entrance like never before.

I tell you...when CN showed this TFA 2-parter back-to-back, it was the most exhilarating and entertaining TFs have been to me since I first saw the animated movie back in the late 80's.

And that's what I like best about the series. In spite of my own minor gripes with TFA, it's made Transformers fun to watch again. It brings back feelings of my childhood--the way I felt when I first watched the show 20+ years ago. It's a cereal-eating in your pajamas on a Saturday morning kind of fun. And how Hasbro has been able to take the stylized, cartoony show designs and make toys that look just like the show is quite possibly one of the best things Hasbro has ever done for their kid viewership and for TF fandom who collect them. It's something fans and collectors have always wanted: cartoon-accurate toys, and unlike G1 and every series in between (except Cybertron) fans don't have to wait 20 years to own them.

They've done upgrades on TFA for Bumblebee, Prowl, and Bulkhead (involving Headmaster). And they've hinted in Lockdown's character that there are essentially no limits to upgrades. And I have a strong gut feeling we'll be seeing a lot more of them in Season 3 because at some point Prime's has to be sizable enough to be a fitting sparring partner for Megatron.

Debatable, but towards the end of Cybertron he was the certainly the biggest threat he's ever been in a TV series, and the coolest design too. But it still doesn't top his epic scheme, double-page spread immensity, and single-handed mass slaughter of both Autobots and Decepticons from the G1 Marvel Comics The Underbase Saga: http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Image:MarvelUS-50.jpg

I can't agree that it's "infinitely superior" to Beast Machines, but it's definitely more entertaining and better quality than those other three.
 
No, that wasn't exactly the case. In the episode with Primus, Primus tells them that there was a parallel universe, and in that universe was the dark god, who was destroyed by a Matrix similiar to Prime's, which then caused a rift in their universe, creating the Grand Black Hole since now Primus was the only god Transformer in existence, creating inbalance between the two. Hense, Unicron being destroyed by a similar Matrix would be the one Rodimus Prime used in the movie.



Sorry, but explain to me how the writing was horrible? The writing was top notch and was doing something Transformers had not done before. The designs were great, especially the ones for Cheetor, Silverbolt, Obsidian, Stryka, hell, all of the Vehicons. Plus the dialog was excellent, especially Rhinox's lines, and the plot delve into Cybertron's past. And do not say there was never any sign of organic life on Cybertron, because the Quintessons even built techno-organics deep in the planet (Dweller in the Depths), while they themselves were techno-organic beings. Problem is people just wrote it off based on 5 episodes rather than actually sitting down and watching the series, understanding the mythos Season 3 of G1 brought in. Not to mention Megatron took over Cybertron, the music to the show was badass, and the animation was sleek, dark, and smooth.
 
Back
Top