Toon Zone Talkback - Fate Of Japanese Animation Industry In Doubt

Viz does stuff like that all the time. They don't care because they'll get bailed out regardless of what they do.

I'd argue that it's Geneon's fault that there's problems with the R1 anime industry. They flooded the market with so much unsellable crap that it left a bad taste in the mouths of so many.
 
I don't want to get too much into it, but it's basically their history. They (a group of college students, as I understand it) crossed a line and tried to turn fansubs into a business by tapping into the whole "streaming" craze. Instead of getting into trouble, they got an investment (which FUNi and Bandai spoke out against, I believe) and now they've pretty much become a driving force against what they used to get their start. I know a lot of people don't like fansubs, but I respect the people who put hard work into them. I find anyone who would use that work without permission as a stepping stone, pretty despicable.

In short, I'd rather give my money to a company directly so that none of it goes to a group who managed to cheat the system.
 
Yeah, but the fact is the Japanese creators use a third party rather than do it themselves, so your best bet if you want to get your money to the company is to go through Crunchyroll.

...

Wait, what? The problem with Crunchyroll was that they used to be a fansub site, but you say you respect fansubs?
 
I both hope, and expect, that will change in the future. If the industry is struggling then they will find new ways to catch my attention. Just because CR is the only direct way for now, doesn't mean we should all buy into it. Furthermore, if it has to be a third party then why not a company already associated with anime? FUNimation seems a prime candidate. In any case, I'll stick with purchasing DVRAB for now since I imagine that helps indirectly.



You misread my post, or perhaps you didn't understand. Crunchyroll stole fansubs.
 
Well, FUNimation has done it with one show, but I think they're better off doing what they do best, and not letting something new like this cut into that. As for just buying DVRAB, assuming you mean the R1 releases, that's great and all, but that doesn't help the companies in question here, the Japanese ones, any more directly than a Crunchyroll Anime Merabership.

Didn't some fansubbers upload their fansubs onto Crunchyroll? And anyway, how can you respect the thieves (fansubbers) and hate the former thieves of the thieves (Crunchyroll) because of that, especially now that they give the Japanese companies money? It just seems completely anti-constructive to respect the people who hurt the industry and hate the company that is the industry's newest source of money.
 
Well one solution, stop wasting money animating filler episodes jk (although it'd prob help since some people avoid buying filler episodes in the first place lol).

I really found this to be a great article. While the facts are facts that just about everybody already knew, it's good to get it out there to everybody for certain. I really didn't know that some people in the industry only make about $3.80 an hour and work 60+ hours a week! It's a shame that anime is treated so unfair in the states now, but it really can't be helped if the fans support isn't there 100%.

I hope that more people start feeling guilty about stealing material from creators just trying to entertain people. I usually feel obligated to buy a dvd whenever I watch a fansub. I think that I've only watched 4 fansubs; Cowboy Bebop (bought it), FMA (saving for it) Naruto (Bought canon...never saw filler and won't buy it lol), and Major (will buy when it gets licensed).

I just really hate the whole situation right now. I think that it will eventually get better, but it may disappear in a decade or so for a while...who knows? They just need to get a hold of the whole fansubbing pandemic right now. It's good to see that they have been trying (both US and Japan) with crunchyroll.com, and hulu.com for example. I'm sure that 70% or so on this site alone watch fansubs. We really just need to know what we want from a show, or an entire industry. If you want it to potentially end soon, keep watching fansubs and not buying the shows. If you want to sample a show, then watch a few fansubs...then BUY IT!
 
They should learn when to "pause" a series. If they had not caught up to the manga, why not end the show with the last arc? Wait a few years (or however long it takes) for the author to jump ahead and then release a sequel series. I'm pretty sure there are people out there who want to see the remainder of Kenshin, Basara, and Inuyasha (to name a few) animated. It could also renew interest for the older shows. They're already doing remakes to a few of their series as it is.

As for the merchandising problems, who buys more: otaku or kiRAB (their parents)?
 
Huh?

If you buy DVRAB it gives money to American companies who in-turn buy more series from the Japanese companies. It helps, just indirectly. But I don't quite see your point about FUNimation. They already have a video site with a lot of content, I don't see how that is much different from CR. So they are perfectly capable of doing it without having it cut into anything.
 
You know they can always just do what they do in America, make prime time animated sit coms. Some American sit coms are fairly family friendly, though still don't leave out adults.

Seriously this destroys the idea that more sex and violence makes something more "mature", a lot of people wouldn't want to see such a show that just has a lot of sex and violence.
 
that kurokami thing was actually cancelled, it isn't on anymore The dub got to like episode 4 before i think, the producer was fired and production stopped.
Besides why is hulu free but so many TV shows have no problem airing on it.
Does Hulu pay TvTokyo to stream Bleach subs?
 
I trusted Crunchyroll once, when they weren't so concentrated on cash...

I doubt anime will die, they're not that expensive to make.
 
Funny, I trust them now that they're more blatant about it. XD

"Animation isn't free. It's the product of hard work and a lot of money, and we cannot continue producing quality content without the financial help from fans," Kawasaki said, explaining that if the strategy succeeRAB, they could expand by selling DVRAB and comic books on the site, "like Amazon.com," and establish a valid business model.

ASDFGHJKLADKJFHA!!! I was hoping they would do that! SUBBED GINTAMA DVD'S!!!!!!!!! 8D (I would be collecting them already if they weren't A) expensive as hell (damn you import fee's! *shakes fist*) and B) not subbed. My Japanese is shaky at best. T_T).

Anyway

Uh... yeah, they are. There's animators, storyboard artists, writers, colorists, tweeners, voice actors, character designers, recording tech's, CG artists, matte painters directors, producers, licensing fee's, marketing people, interns... it takes a small army to get your standard anime off the ground - all of those people have to be paid, art supplies must be supplied (arguably it's cheaper doing everything digital 'cause tablets don't have to be sharpened and whatnot XD), they have to buy their time slot... Japanese animation may cost less then American animation, but it's still very expensive.

Hmm, from the sounRAB of it, they're going down the road America went down: outsourcing most of the grunt work - in some cases to the point where little to no animation is actually done in-house, and the animators they do keep around aren't really paid a living wage. It's cheaper, but it kills local jobs fast and discourages people from entering the field. On top of that, they're making animation more and more niche, which kills popular appeal, which reduces sales.

Fansubbing is just sort of icing on the Cake of Doom. Although I consider it as much a byproduct of insane international copyright laws/region encoding as much as fans simply wanting to watch the show. It becomes a problem, IMO, when people don't buy the DVD's when they're available - which I'm begining to suspect is the majority if the 'tarRAB on Crunchyroll are any indicator (complain because the fansubs aren't being released fast enough; complain when the company decides to be AWESOME and NOT sue said fansubbers and throw their stuff on the site free and legal; complain when you have to have a paid account to get the simulcast; complain when they don't update fast enough; complain because they don't post the simulcast episode on the site BEFORE they said they were going to post it; complain when the site has technical issues when implimenting a new system, knowing full well anything new has to have bugs worked out first; daaaamn I wish I could smack people through the internets. >.
 
We're smack in the middle of an overhaul in the distribution model of not just anime, but a lot of entertainment. However, distribution is also only a small part of the issue. Effective change neeRAB to come from changing an industry model. Anime, the idea, the concept, will not die. Companies however, can and will burn while others take their place.
 
It takes a small army to get any animation off the ground, even when it is animated with Flash. Notice there aren't as many new cartoons in general being made in the United States, either. In general, animated series are being cancelled early and fewer episodes are being made out of ones that are continuing. The WB's usually-formidable animation department is devoted to one single cartoon: Batman: The Brave And The Bold. We'll be lucky if Cartoon Network manages to premiere Adventure Time as its sole new original cartoon this year. The Cartoonstitute's lack of information is disconcerting. Even Canada seems to be holding back with cartoon creation and they're generally a hot spot.

This isn't just restricted to anime, it's happening to worldwide animation. The problem is that the Japanese have come to rely on exports to pick up any slack in sales of their more mature titles, and they're drying up.
 
I would agree with those saying hopefully this means a cut down on all the "Loli Lolie Moe Panty Desu-chan!!" series. I accept the disturbing fact there's a profitable market for them, but I'm glad to hear that even Japan is creeped out by them. It's a hurdle the industry would do well to get over. Get back to focussing on story and character, please.

I also feel for the struggling recent graduates mentioned in the story because I'm in the same boat. I finished my Design degree last summer, currently have no job and am currently considering odd design jobs impractical in the current climate. To go through all those years of training for either hell or nothing...I truely feel for them.
 
When I discovered (even before reading this article) that even Japan outsources their animation to Korea/China/wherever nowadays, I must admit I was a little disappointed. There's a certain pride when you can say, "Made entirely in our country". On the other hand, outsourcing usually yielRAB higher framerates, which I'm a fan of, so I'm torn.

Actually, the whole "Japan outsourcing" thing reminRAB me of a similar situation when Hanna Barbera started sending their grunt work overseas in the '70s (or did it start as late as the '60s? I'm not sure the exact starting point). Our industry survived and there are still jobs in animation, but the article raises a point that inbetweening is a useful skill that isn't necessarily fun but hones your craft, and so to have someone else do it not only eliminates that particular job from our marketplace, but arguably makes certain artists less skilled overall.

It's also appalling how little inbetweeners in Japan make. While inbetweeners are low on the totem pole and of course wouldn't get paid as much, they shouldn't have to live with their parents to survive (and even THEN have financial difficulty). And arguably, inbetweeners are just as important as animators, since they're there to make the animation smooth. Without them, you have crap. So I really don't see why they're given a garbage wage.

As for less series, I've been saying it for a while now: Quality over quantity. There are often 20-30 new shows a season. A SEASON! And there are four in Japanese TV. No wonder they adapt so many manga and H-games into TV series; they don't have enough time to create their own scenarios! While less series doesn't automatically mean an increase in quality, at least it means studios aren't running themselves ragged, so the possibility of more passion put into the less amount of work goes up.

And of course, illegal fansubs (i.e. non-Crunchy Roll) amiRABt all of this don't help. I'm not going to be short-sighted enough to say fansubs are entirely the problem of the hurting anime industry, but they're certainly a factor. Bottom line: If you're not buying in some form, you're slowly killing the hobby you enjoy.
 
Agree. Fansubbers should be hunted down and have their PCs taken away for copyright infringement. Theft is theft.



1. They did, their videos got taken down because Japanese companies owns the copyright. Same way goes to YouTube.

2. It's piracy.



It's hard, I know. They'll never learn their lesson.



Correct. More fansubs, less profits.
 
Piracy doesn't stop with fansubs though. I've found English DVD rips of fully licensed series on YouTube. That's really crossing the line and speaks of the fan culture of free handouts that won't be easily changed. The internet has made folks greedy and only encouraged those who already were. Sadly, these same folks tend to be the ones who whine the most when the increasingly out of pocket companies close up or don't license a series.
 
Seriously. I'm a third year illustration student looking at a nearly empty job market. Luckily I'm going into comics anyway so there was never a guaranteed future. XD Ah, if only I could find that day job... >.>

All the more sad 'cause I won't be able to afford to re-up my Crunchyroll subscription once it expires at the end of this month. I'm gonna miss the simulcast. T_T



Lolwut? REALLY crossing the line is pirating domestic stuff?
 
Back
Top