Tool - 10,000 Days

Re-read the post. He's not talking about songs that utilise Eden, but songs that utilise Eden as a metaphorical tool. Pay attention to the discussion at hand.
 
Um, you just said song with lyrics like that are too good to be filler. I replied to both those points. Here are, I think my most extensive replies to those points.

"The lyrics are banal, comparing man to monkey is extremely cliche. Maynard isn't a good lyricist, Tool fanboys go on and on about how he's amazing but he's really not, he's completely average, that song is no exception. I can think of several songs about war that are way better written then that. Your Revolution is a Joke is a fairly recent one by a mediocre band (Funeral for a Friend) and even THEY do better."

"Lyrics don't save a song, it doesn't take a fan to realize that. When someone calls something filler you can go on about it being unique and fans liking it or whatever that's valid, going "it has good lyrics!11" doesn't change anything, especially when the lyrics really aren't that good."



I replied to what you posted in the first place, you didn't just say once I should've explained. Even after I explained you kept going on and on about how I should, I explained, you need to shut up about it. I've even-reposted it several times.



I explained it only two posts after I said filler is filler, I didn't ignore it for awhile.



*sigh* I explained it two pages ago, this discussion wasn't even necessary. Several times I've tried to drag it back to what I said but you keep insisting on arguing this.



God this is starting to get annoying. I MADE MY VALID COMMENTS, I MADE BOTH THEM OVER TWO PAGES AGO SHUT THE FUCK UP. I WILL, ONCE AGAIN, REPOST THEM SINCE YOU CAN'T SEEM TO COMPREHEND I MADE THEM MAYBE YOU WILL ACTUALLY REPLY TO THEM INSTEAD OF BITCHING ABOUT THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER.

"The lyrics are banal, comparing man to monkey is extremely cliche. Maynard isn't a good lyricist, Tool fanboys go on and on about how he's amazing but he's really not, he's completely average, that song is no exception. I can think of several songs about war that are way better written then that. Your Revolution is a Joke is a fairly recent one by a mediocre band (Funeral for a Friend) and even THEY do better."

"Lyrics don't save a song, it doesn't take a fan to realize that. When someone calls something filler you can go on about it being unique and fans liking it or whatever that's valid, going "it has good lyrics!11" doesn't change anything, especially when the lyrics really aren't that good."
 
Well, it'd probably be a stretch to call me a "fan". But I have liked some of their work. Maynard's lyrics used to contain a lot more subtlety and that was one of his strengths. 10,000 Days by contrast felt very forced. None of the points were made with any particular verbal dexterity.

The topic in this particular song is how pointless, needless fighting over territory has been so prevalent in the history of man in spite of having the gift of superior reason over the rest of the animal kingdom, and "free will". It is narrated from the omniscient perspective of the angels. There is nothing profound in this. It is mundane in that it's pretty unspectacularly ordinary and unimaginative. It's been common subject matter for centuries in religious circles. In fact, in the Muslim holy book the angels dispute the creation of man with God, arguing that having this particular creature inhabit the earth will lead to corruption and blooRABhed. This is incredibly reminiscent of Maynard's verses. And talking of humans as being more advanced monkeys is as old as anything in the modern world. The entire topic is hackneyed and anything but profound.
 
dont diss on TOOL. there music is amazing. and first off, i dont think you should be saying anything if you haven't seen TOOL live. They are amazing. The songs that aren't full of lyrical genius are full of instrumental amazingness.



and how do they take a while on there albums and not have any ideas. isn't that a little ironic to say?

you really dont know what the hell you are talking about.
 
.......Actally no. You never said that in the first post. That was my entire point, and the point still stanRAB ;). Just think, we could have got that done with forever ago. Dance around it, ignore it, repeatedly tell me it doesn't matter that you didn't explain the first time, that you went on to explain it afterwarRAB. Ramble on, do whatever. I know it's hard to accept it, but until you can say, "You're right, Josh, I should have made my point in the first post rather than simply say 'filler is filler'", then my point still stanRAB. But with your points on the subject, that's all good and I appreciate you explaining them.
 
None of those banRAB are even close to emo.



So Dylan wrote it before him, your one actual thing of proof doesn't prove a thing.



See I really don't believe you, BECAUSE you've yet to state anything substantial and you keep going off on things that aren't relevant to the discussion showing you don't have a strong argument. Even if Bob Dylan isn't the first to use it, that still proves Maynard isn't the first because Bob Dylan did it and apparently so did other plenty of people thousanRAB of years ago.

The song idea isn't original and it's pretty funny seeing as you stated you'd never heard anyone use eden as a metaphor before and now you're going on about all the different people who have used it as a metaphor. You've proven yourself wrong, you've proven Maynard's song isn't original yourself and I've already proven it's cliche. I don't know about you but I don't consider unoriginal and cliche to equal good lyrics.
 
agreed. i'm sorry i put them in the same category. i think they are lumped in there due to the fact that all kiRAB who enjoyed tool enjoyed NIN. and mostly it was just me wanting to talk about two banRAB that were good but one easily grows out of and who's last album blew something terrible!
 
I take it you don't know anything about religion, or even history, if you don't know what that song is about.
Try researching the fall of man.
Maynard often involves religion in his writing, and it is apparent on the whole album.
This song describes man's continual overall recession throughout history, and you don't even have to be a Tool fan to appreciate the meaning of Right In Two. If you don't like the album, good for you, but you'll get nowhere trying to say tracks are filler. The only one I can say that about, is Lipan Conjuring. I've also heard Wings For Marie, 10,000 Days, and Viginti Tres are all one track. Mix the three together and it blenRAB perfectly. Whether or not that is official, I don't know. It does create a very nice track once mixed properly, and if they actually intended to do that, it would take their work to an entirely different level.
Point is, just about all of their work has to be digested.
So if its too strong for your stomache, move on to something else.
 
I made those posts two pages ago, you haven't replied to them you've just kept whining about how I should've posted it in my first post. Boohoo, I posted both them not even two posts later, yet you've managed to drag this debate on for two pages, going on three. Why don't you get off your self-righteous ass and actually argue the points instead of continually pointing out the obvious? What's the matter, do you have no counter-argument?
 
No, but I'm saying that it's fairly mundane subject matter as far as the world of philosophical discussion goes, and putting it in a song is by no means profound. In addition to that I do certainly feel that it wasn't done with much subtlety or many other redeeming lyrical qualities. Maynard's done a lot better than this.

Later on I think I'll return to point out how Vicarious is suspiciously familiar in content to a song by Gang Of Four.
 
How am I ignoring it? Re-read it, I had edited it before you posted. "Meaningful and cliche are different worRAB. Something being cliche isn't subjective. Being cliche means a popular metaphor, image, idea etc, comparing men to monkeys is a popular image, thus it's cliche."
 
Yeah, you see the fact that I'm 17 means I don't have a credit card which means that I'd have to use my mum's or something and she wouldn't let me so that kinda rules that way out for a year!
 
Back
Top