TMNT Talkback: Episode 5.03: "Legend of the Five Dragons" (Spoilers)

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Episode 5.03: Legend of the Five Dragons
Original Air Date: March 1, 2008
Written by Danny Fingeroth

Previously on TMNT: The Ninja Tribunal arm their acolytes with new weapons, with the curious exception of Leo--clearly Juto isn't big on teacher's pets. They are then tasked with retrieving the first of the missing artifacts, which is guarded by an squadron of "kappa". They succeed, but Leo is injured during the battle, something the Tribunal couldn't care less about. In the end, they discover what the audience knew from the beginning: that the "great evil" whose resurrection they are charged from preventing is called The Shredder.

This week, on TMNT: Splinter reveals the origins of the Evil One and his ties to the Ninja Tribunal, Hamato Yoshi, and Ch'rell.
 
I don't get the themes part. They had the same one for Seasons 1, 2, and 3, briefly changed it up for 4 at least until Karai took the title of Shredder, then was Theme 5. Then Theme 6 is for Fast Forward. Unless you're talking about the themes from the ORIGINAL 1987 series, but the first two intros then had the same theme.
 
4Kids is holding a contest to determine the theme song for the upcoming season of the current show, with six songs to choose from. The poll is to determine which of the six is considered the best among rabroad posters. Links to all the songs can be found and downloaded here. I placed them out of order in the poll so as to promote confusion and force readers to pay attention.
 
Wow, this was a very good episode! Best episode in the season so far.

I always figured there was a real human Oroku Saki, even when we were way back in Season 2 when Utrom Shredder was shown for the first time. It just always made sense to me for Oroku Saki to actually exist, so I'm glad they actually did it!

Lots of stuff was revealed in this episode; where the Shredder armor came from, the forming of the Ninja Tribunal, who the true Shredder was, lots of overall good stuff.

Overall I am very pleased. Its stuff like this that really does remind you of Gargoyles, the way every storyline is built up more and more each following season yet still fits into continuity with the past. Man, I almost forgot how much I loved this show.
 
Of course with that one moron being part of 4Kids (who says he never saw the original Ninja Turtles series), there's probably no way of them having a theme similar to the classic. Theme 4's mention of Cyber Shredder goes back to the 3rd Ninja Turtles Game Boy game, Radical Rescue.
 
One sloppy thing I noticed now that I've rewatched the episode: the artists didn't remove/alter the Foot/Three-Toed Dragon symbol in the Shishos or Saki, which seems uneccesarily inconsistent. Why is Saki wearing the symbol upside-down before his turn to the dark side? Why does his armor still have the symbol right-side up after he does his heel face turn? While one can fanwank the inconsistencies away--by saying that the way the symbol faced didn't mean anything yet, or that the flashback did not accurately reflect how events actually took place--it still seems sloppy.

I also didn't like Donny immediately calling the Utrom Shredder an impostor, or suggesting that he's somehow less legitimate. He may not have been the original, but the dude has had a much longer career than his predecessor, and a much bigger body count (although that was mostly before he took on the Shredder identity). Plus, given their history with the guy, it really doesn't ring true.

Still, pretty good episode. Random thougths:

  • I have to wonder what the turtles' VA's think of episodes like this one and Tale of Master Yoshi--where most of the lines are taken by a single narrator. Do they appreciate the break?
  • I have to say that "dark depths", at least as used here, is as good an euphenism for "hell" as I've ever heard.
  • On a similar note, I like the effect used here, with demonic fire substituting blood.
  • The fake theme songs "created" by Mikey for the contest promos almost sound better than the actual choices. Weird as it is, I could go with "Tortugita" as the new theme song for the show.
 
Good call on that one, I would've brought it up if you hadn't mentioned it. My other gripe with the art is that Saki looks horribly inconsistent alongside the Shishos. Though the Shishos do gain back their pupils in this flashback (you have to look closely), they're still too mystic-looking and Saki looks shoehorned into a group he really doesn't belong to. The tribunal should've gotten more human-looking redesigns to start, and gained the mystic look after they learned the arts.

My other problem with the episode is that it's an epic, epic story, but the narration keeps us firmly detached from what's going on and there's little emotional investment. We learn nothing new about the tribunal or Saki, we don't get to understand them as human beings or see their reaction when they lose one of their own to a dark evil. The events would feel much more compelling if told 'in the moment' from the tribunal's perspective. Instead we basically get a history lesson that covers all the key points but little else.



What annoyed me was (much like all the other flashback episodes in the series) the characters feel the need to sum up what they've learned. And it's done in such a way that really panders to the lowest end of the kiddie demographic.
 
What I also didn't understand, in addition to that, is why the Emperor of Japan gave Saki a suit of armor that had the SAME EXACT COLORS and looked ALMOST EXACTLY LIKE the evil demon that was DESTROYING HIS KINGDOM?
 
Good points, but this is only a 13 episode season and the writers are stressed for time. Given that I doubt they wanted to make multiple entire flashback episodes, giving us mostly the key points was understandable.

In general though, do the tribunal even need to show emotion? They're mostly cold and uncaring in the present, I doubt that changed much in the past. I haven't seen the rest of this season yet, but as far as I can tell now they don't even act like a family. Why would they honestly care about Saki?
 
That weird witchy character with the crystal ball-ish spell...was that a subtle reference to the 80s Leatherhead's more mystical origin??

And most of the theme songs suck. 'Rocking' theme song? Only like...one or two of them are really rocking...
 
I too thought that Saki was horribly out of place with the other dragons. They should have given him new duds.

The dragons' armors though were sweet! And the 'inner dragons' design were killer too!

Also not to nitpick but...was there really a Japanese Emperor in 300 AD? I don't think the Island was united until much, much later.

So who wore that armor at the Battle Nexus tournament in the end? Saki? Ch'rell? One of the Shishos?

Another random though...if the Ninja Tribunal had helped get rid of the Utrom Shredder (who was after all a dangerous alien criminal) then Yoshi would still be alive and Splinter would have probably never encountered the ooze that mutated him and the turtles. The turtles wouldn't have grown in his care and he probably would have ended up dying of old age years ago (rats don't live very long). The fate of the Turtles is thus link to the Ninja Tribunal since before they were born.
 
Shhhh! The writers were saving that for later on!



Eh, anything to give them a little more depth. I'd personally find them a little more interesting as tragic figures who lost a comrade, were forced to stand vigil for over 1700 years and grew cold and uncaring as a result, as opposed to being stoic jerks from the get-go. Yeah it's a short season and there's not much time to go into this kinda stuff, but I still don't agree with the narration choice.
 
Well 1st I was surprised by the fact that this was a new episode, even more surprised that this was one of the pre-FF lost season ones.:eek: :confused: When did this start airing?

So the Tribunal that popped up at S4 finale all fought against an Uber-Shredder with the help of a non-Utrom Saki(who looks pretty plain compared to the other members) who eventually gets possesed, takes over and turns into a awsome looking dragon.

Okay, I'll buy that.:sweat:

Theme songs 1,4,5, are all okay if not tollerable.
6 sounds like background music and 2 gets an honorable mention for invoking memories of the 80's theme but subjecting me to yet another rap which invokes memories of the DBGT dub theme. 3 sounds like it shound be at the end of a movie.
 
While it may have not yet congealed around an Emperor, and there's some definitive date-fudging, it seems Japan had indeed already begun its unification process by 300 A.D. if Wikipedia is to be believed--"Emperor" may have simply been narrator's shorthand by Splinter or whomever he heard the story from.
 
I thought half of them were good. The electronic one was fine. It would have been better if all they said was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and didn't chant the character names too. But 5 was the best one by far. That Gangsta rap one was terrible and out of character for the series.

Anyway, loved the episode, but my nitpick was they didn't go into the Utrom Shredder far enough, though. i like how they mentioned it at the end, but they could have gone a little deeper.
 
This was a great episode and finally tied up the loose end surrounding the original Oroku Saki.

I also thought that. I mean, they could have debated on how and why Ch'Rell chose to become the Shredder. I mean, how did he make the fake Oroku Saki model and the Shredder armour? How did he amass an army to lay siege in ancient Japan without the tribunal doing anything about it?

As for the themes, I liked the electronic one. Sounds pretty Daft Punkish to me. :)
 
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