TMN-HD troubles

  • Thread starter Thread starter skeeter080
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If you have proof of this, then it is grounds for an intervention with the CRTC. I know that a couple of US signals appear to have changed from 1080i to 720p, and so has TMN and HDnet. Also, most (but not all) Canadian signals are 720p instead of 1080i on other BDUs. However, I have yet to see any documented proof that EV is doing this and not the broadcasters.

I recall another discussion where some people claimed that EV converted all signals to 720p and they were proven wrong. So, let's see the proof that EV is changing bit rates and resolution and not the broadcasters. :cool:
 
It is my understanding from my VP contact at Astral that for TMN-HD at least, they get the original tape from the studios (1080/24i - yes 1080i/24, not 1080/24P), load it onto their server at the appropriate bitrate/encoding and then send that to the service providers. For broadcasters, this step (to the broadcaster) is usually done via satellite or fibre link and the "original programme" is often, though not always, high bitrate and I believe 1080/24P.

There may be two "thats", one for 1080i and one (720P) for BEV, however, the bitrate sent by TMN-HD is set by TMN-HD and is NOT the high bitrate that johnny_marin discusses. If Global does the same, sending 1080i for Rogers and 720P for BEV, again, I cannot believe this is the high bitrate.

I believe those higher bitrates are between the originator of the programme and the broadcaster and NOT between the broadcaster and service provider. There are some service providers that change the format (BEV some channels to 720P) and *C - everything to 1080i, however, I do not believe they are getting the high bitrate - they get the "broadcast" bitrate and in cases like Rogers, simply "passthrough" that bitrate.
 
I PVR'd Rome Sunday night and watched it last night. Not as bad as last week, but I still counted 3 or 4 times with sound and picture disappearing, about 5-7 each time, and sound alone once for a couple seconds. Better....but still not what it should be.

I'll be watching Sleeper Cell later today and see how that one goes.

Peter
 
Let's see if I got it right (talking about movies).

Terminology:
Originator - rights owner (studio or somebody else who has distribution rights);
Broadcaster - TMN, MC, HDNet (ocasional movie), etc.
Service provider - Rogers, BEV, StarChoice, etc.

How the movie gets to the broadcaster is of little interest (to me).
The service provider receives encoded (by the broadcaster) version of the movies.
Some service providers (e.g. Rogers) just pass that stream to viewers.
Some (BEV) have the capabilities and rights to re-encode that stream: HDNet (1080->720), resolution manipulation on TMN HD streams.

Is this correct?

Diogen.
 
Do you really believe that TMN-HD has been changing the format on its channel back and forth many times between the various formats discussed in the following thread? Do you believe that they send 720P for one channel and 1080i for another (post 7 of the link below)?

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=54954

Do you believe that Mark Cuban would change his beloved HDNet 1080i format just for BEV? You even commented on that subject in that thread in disbelief!

Do you believe that all of the channels listed as 720P in the link below provide 720P just for BEV? Do you believe that they then switch back and forth several times, depending on BEV's mood?

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=439937#post439937

Ha!

I will post a question for Marc in the CBC thread, since CBC is indicated as 720P on BEV.


Lastly, on *C, Fox is shown converted to 1080i. Since Fox cannot change formats, this one is a no brainer, it's done by *C.
 
diogen, that summary is in line with MY understanding, however, I'm not sure you'd call what BEV and *C do to the signals reencoding. I'd simply call it reformating, like a STB takes an incoming 1080i signal and sends it out at 720P or vice versa.

I'm sure that the commercial equipment is more elaborate than a STB, but I don't think there's any "encoding".
 
I recorded Sopranos at 1:00 am or so on TMN and it was horrible. Worse than Rome but the same sequence of events. They certainly didn't have it fixed on Sunday/Early Monday.

Funny though, I watched Stargate Atlantis on Monday night and it was fine. Last week SG Atlantis was fine too.

-Mike
 
The issue is not with TMN directly, since the reports of this only come from BEV customers. (No issues on Rogers for example, as mentioned previously)

There could be an issue with TMN/BEV both, perhaps related to BEV's use of 720P, or something else unique to BEV.
 
I thought about using "re-scaling" instead but decided against it.
When watching the different resolution TMN HD versions, the 1080 (even when only 1280x1080) was cleaner - better picture and almost no errors.
A simple rescaling 720->1080 wouldn't be able to accomplish that, IMHO. Percieved sharpness - maybe, but not a cleaner stream.

With HDNet I believe in simple rescaling: bitrate is the same and combing artifacts are noticable on static screen captures.

Diogen.

EDIT: After a second thought, they might be getting it in 1080/60i (as Rogers) and just rescale it to 720/60p (as now)
or any other resolution they tried. So, yes, all the variations we've seen could have been just rescaling from a better source.
 
No Rome last night but I watched both the 9:00 and 10:00 pm episodes of the Sopranos and both were fine, except for one quick glitch I noticed (might have been the snow storm though). Much, much better than last week.

-Mike
 
Perhaps HBO programmes have some new encoding that is causing issues with the BEV equipment. I'll send a note to my contact at Astral.
 
Happened again on tonight's Rome. It's not an issue with hdmi, i'm not using it. I guess Bell is to blame.
 
I already got a response from Astral. It's a problem with TMN-HD, specific to BEV. They are aware of the situation and are working on it right now.

Since Astral charges for a premium service, I have always found them extremely responsive to issues. I hope they can rectify the problem for BEV customers in short order.
 
ok this black out followed by the video returning then audio 3 to 4 second later, is not just happening on TMN & M-HD. I've seen it on other channels this week too.

Last blackout I saw was between 12:46 & 12:47 Channel 803 CTYHE (program was City On Line with Frankie Flowers)

I never had these problem till about 2 weeks ago. My reciever is the 9200 and my signal in mint!
 
I_Want: Here's your answer regarding CBC.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=513319#post513319

I guess you can involve the CRTC now...
 
Update. TMN-HD are still working on the issue, however, they have not found the problem yet...
 
As a comment from a person that never used a hidef receiver - satellite, cable or any other: it could also be a decoder issue.

When playing DVDs on a PC, the final result depends quite a bit on the MPEG-2 decoder. This dependence is most noticable when hitting a botched frame: how gracefully and smoothly the player/codec overcomes this issue. Depends on myriad variables.

With receivers, where the decoder is in silicon, there are no options in changing the player/codec and one has to rely on the quality of the encoded MPEG-2 stream fed to the decoder. With hidef all those problems could me magnified due to the high bitrate.

This doesn't explain why this happens mostly with TMN HD, though.

Diogen.
 
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