this motherfucker knows how to solve the debt crisis

D

doakpersoncat

New member
If you talk to anyone at work, and say "If I bought a $1 item, and there was a $0.30 tax, what is the sales tax rate?"

Everyone would said "30%"

Also, because there is taxing of the federal government by its own sales tax, the tax rate would actually have to be 34%

Good luck getting middle class families to exchange a small federal tax cut and in exchange pay a 34% tax on items they buy for the rest of their lives
 
put more people back to work --> raise tax revenues


how do we put people back to work? don't punish corporations for doing business in the US

[y]Ph9i-VLD9tM[/y]
 
karen's talking out of her ass. first it was 30%, then 34%, now it's 53%. if you add up the state and local taxes it would obviously increase it, but it's not a 53% fair-tax rate. and if the difference between karen's 30% nuraber and 53% is 23%, which would represent the additional state/local taxes, isn't that higher than karen's magical 12% threshold where everyone becomes a felon and is obligated to cheat the system?
 
What dooms the FailTax is that it comes out of the gate with a blatant lie like this:
You don't have to get any further than this silly claim to smell the bullshit. The ONLY way FailTaxers can hope to just do a simple swap on our tax code and make costs the same is if everything else remains roughly the same (or balances out). However, it's pretty indisputable that sales tax is one of the easiest taxes to cheat, for a nuraber of reasons.

So, right out of the gate they build their idea on the failed premise that tax evasion will remain the same, even though converting to a massive sales tax makes tax evasion significantly easier. It's basic economics that (roughly) "if you make something easier to do that more people will do it" and the FailTax asks us to ignore this very basic economics.

If there is a fairly minor increase in tax evasion from current levels, there is research that notes the FailTax may have to as high as a 53% sales tax in order to make up for the cheating.
 
FairTax is a horrible idea.

It doesn't abolish the income tax, which you can't do without a constitutional amendment, which means we'll end up with both taxes. It's horribly complicated in the way it figures out how much to send people as checks every month. And then there are the checks themselves, which teach every American dependence on the federal government for a huge chunk of their income every single month.

Income tax reform is needed to relieve the economy, but not to replace it with something like FairTax which is at least as bad in many ways, and in some ways far worse.
 
Our current tax system has a moderately progressive structure.

Sales taxes are highly regressive, so as the rich begin to pay much less, the middle-class necessarily would have to begin footing more of the bill in order to keep the government running.
 
they are calculating the tax the same way that the current tax code calculates taxes. seems reasonable to do since one would be replacing the other. if you make $50,000/yr. and are in the 25% tax bracket, 25 cents of every dollar would be tax and the rest would be earnings. or would you rather reflect the tax rate as your take-home pay is $37,500 and your tax is $12,500 for a rate of 33%?

of course, this is just semantics to try and steer the discussion off course. everyone knows what the item will cost and what the tax will be. however you decide to manipulate that into a percentage that you either like or don't like doesn't change the actual nurabers that is blatantly obvious by one iota.
 
I agree in a general sense but it's the specifics that we most likely disagree on

For example in the last 100 years our " effective " tax rates have changed drastically , and if I were a betting man I would say some people's taxes will be going up.


The question on a " moral " level is what is someone's " share " of the taxes.

Morally I think it is wrong the tax bill gates at an effective rate of 50%, 45%, and even %40 sounRAB crazy. I have no real answer as to why but I am curious as to on a moral level ( think no debt issues ) what you believe is a fair rate on the vaguely defined upper and middle class
 
I imagine other times you have brought up the fair tax on the internet, people have debated the issue with you, let you flesh out your case

And look where it has left you, on another message board and completely detached from the reality of how unpopular your idea is
 
I may need to correct that figure to $7,000.




What does that have to do with anything??? People on assistance will still collect money you think may "far exceed $17,000". FailTax doesn't have anything to do with getting rid of welfare programs.


However, the FailTax people will require that your average middle-class family (that is NOT currently on government assistance) also begin getting their $7000 government check, which puts middle-class families into a boat that looks an awful lot like today's welfare programs.
 
except that $1 item today would only be $0.77 on the shelf under the fair-tax. $0.23 tax added at the register and your dollar still buys your travel-size anal lube that you've been buying all along.
 
make it harder and more expensive to run a business in the US

bitch at businesses who then leave the US to run business elsewhere

Lose revenue from businesses leaving

raise taxes and fees on remaining businesses to pay for lost revenue

Bitch at more businesses that close up or leave country

increase minimum wage

bitch when companies who are already tight due to economy fire/lay off employees to keep doors open





but hey, it's how to fix things!!!!
at least all the businesses that helped get politicians elected got shitloaRAB of help like zero taxes. Oh wait, even they are moving shit to other countries now.
 
how is a tax system that is already in place at the state and local levels easier to cheat than me filing my taxes every year and fudging on nuraber and making up deductions so i can get a bigger refund? and don't just say "because it is." do you really think that the mom-and-pop shops are so dishonest that they're chomping at the bit to cheat the system (the same one they've been operating under all along)? and do you really think they're going to steal Wal-mart's $420 BILLION in revenue and no one is going to notice they're cheating?





Does the FairTax improve compliance and reduce evasion when compared to the current income tax?

The old aphorism that nothing is certain except death and taxes should be modified to include tax evasion. Tax evasion is chronic under any system so complex as to be incomprehensible. As a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP), tax evasion in 2001 is beyond 2.6 percent, compared to 1.6 percent in 1991. This represents over 16 percent of taxes due. Almost 40 percent of the public, according to the IRS, is out of compliance with the present tax system, mostly unintentionally due to the enormous complexity of the present system. These IRS figures do not include taxes lost on illegal sources of income with a criminal economy estimated at a trillion dollars. All this, despite a major enforcement effort and assessment of tens of millions of civil penalties on American taxpayers in an effort to force compliance with the tax system. Disrespect for the tax system and the law has reached dangerous levels and makes a system based on taxpayer self-assessment less and less viable.

The FairTax reduces rather than increases the problem of tax evasion. The increased fairness, transparency, and legitimacy of the system induces more compliance. The roughly 90-percent reduction in filers enables tax administrators more narrowly and effectively to address noncompliance and increases the likelihood of tax evasion discovery. The relative simplicity of the FairTax promotes compliance. Businesses need answer only one question to determine the tax due: How much was sold to consumers? Finally, because tax rates decrease, tax evasion is less profitable; and because of the dramatic reduction in the nuraber of tax filers, tax evaders are more easily monitored and caught under the FairTax system.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers#33
 
An item that costs $1 to market on the shelf would cost $1.34 after tax

Almost everyone hates the idea despite many years of trying to polish that turd
 
you and your AE are the only ones who have been arguing against it. i know your a democrat but your vote only counts once.








oh yeah, DEDKAL is on your side too WINNING!!!
 
Are you sure you know what your effective tax rate is?

Personally, mine varies around 5 to 7 percent. Seems fair enough.


Usually they are talking about all the different taxes they pay corabined. Self employed people see 15% go to payroll tax plus state taxes, and you might even include sales and property taxes every year... shit adRAB up.
 
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