This is what you're lamenting the passing of?

N

natalym98

New member
For the second time now to clear space on my 5230 I've had to perform a backup and a hard reset to clear space on C. I've got Ovi Store set to install software and media files directly to E, yet every time I download something space on C gets taken up. It's obviously for no good reason, because on performing the hard reset, the software re-installs fine as it's detected on E. Downloading to the computer and installing via Ovi suite doesn't avoid this issue either.

This is not a powerful operating system, it's an incredibly bloated and broken operating system that needs to be cleaned up on a depressingly regular basis.

On my N95 8GB I made great use of the built in SIP features. I used Rogers' 6GB data plan when it came out and combined it with an account on voip.ms I could reduce my voice plan from over $70/month down to $28/month. The data plan was $30/month, so not only did I make a savings on my total monthly expenditures just for voice calling (with ridiculously awesome rates like less than 25c for an hour of calling to friends in Hong Kong), but I also got access to GPS and Maps with an instant location lock and communication with people via IM and email on top of traditional methods. I also used JoikuSpot to have internet access on my computer where I couldn't even get a DSL or dialup line. My only other option would have been a Rogers or Bell Inukshuk portable modem. It was great, for my particular uses, no other phone or operating system would have served me better.

That was on Symbian 9.1, on switching to Wind (and later Mobilicity), with better voice and data rates, including unlimited data, I attempted to use my voip.ms account again to make cheap calls out of the country. With a newer phone, that has much better battery management and runs Symbian 9.4, I no longer have SIP support.

This isn't a feature-filled operating operating system, it's an operating system that gets features haphazardly stripped out.

My E62, which had excellent battery life, and could survive hours of straight calling without needing to be plugged in, thanks to its massive 1500mAh battery, still couldn't make it through the night without being charged. This was because even though the backlight turned off, the screen saver was still active and sucking juice - slowly but surely. On Symbian 9.0 and 9.1, this was simply how it was - a BlackBerry at the time could last for days without being plugged in if it wasn't in use, thanks to turning the screen off after 15 seconds - even when in a call. This was a simple change, a fix that could have easily been included in a firmware update.

My 5230 on Symbian 9.4 now completely turns the screen off, and its battery life is great. Having to buy a new phone to get a simple feature like that isn't anything like having a portable computer - what smartphones are supposed to be - it's like buying an electronic appliance.

Symbian isn't a cohesive operating system, it's a bloated monstrosity with as many variants as there are phones designed to run it. You can't rely on a feature in a previous Symbian phone being there in a subsequent one, and you can't rely on a feature benefitting newer Symbian phones also coming to existing ones. Hell, you can't even rely on it staying the way it was if you simply just want to install new programs.

All of you who are listing bullet points of features that Symbian has that Windows Phone doesn't are just in denial. If the operating system doesn't get crucial updates to make continued use of the phone viable, and if it doesn't even keep working through normal usage, it's not a powerful, or even a good operating system.

Nokia has been dragging Symbian down since they went to S60v3 and Sony-Ericsson and Motorla stopped working with UIQ, and they've made one blunder after another to the point that even Samsung - on seeing an opportunity to release the Innov8 with all the features that we all wanted in a single phone - couldn't make anything of it. As a result of Nokia dragging Symbian down, bloating and fragmenting it, Symbian has been dragging Nokia down ever since Apple came on the market with the iPhone, and in response to hacking of the original OS converted a fancy feature phone OS into a powerful and consistent smartphone OS over the next two revisions. Symbian was so bad, that while it started as the king of smartphone operating systems, it got outsmarted by what started out as a feature phone operating system.

Symbian was a malignant gangrene to Nokia, its amputation and replacement by the prosthetic of Windows Phone isn't something to be saddened by, it's something to be rejoiced. Yeah, it won't be quite the same having a 3rd party operating system controlled by Microsoft, but at least Nokia can move forward.

And really, it doesn't matter that much what Symbian got replaced by. Sure, MeeGo is homegrown, but it's obviously stunted and would take way too long for Nokia to get moving with. Sure, webOS would have been a much preferable choice - the best smartphone OS combined with the best phone hardware would have been a marriage made in heaven, but it's entirely Nokia's fault (not Microsoft's!!!) for not buying Palm when they had the opportunity. Hell, even Motorola's various Linux distributions that they used on the ROKR E6 and the A1600 would have been better than Symbian, although obviously not enough to really compete with iOS and Android. Speaking of Android, yeah that could have worked, but we would have been entrusting Nokia with customising an operating system and creating an interface layer on top of Android to differentiate themselves after having royally screwed up with Symbian and having been unable to produce anything in time with MeeGo, or alternatively just releasing a generic 2.3 or 3.0 handset that has "with Google" written on the back, no differentiation at all and the hope that Google is impressed with what they put out and select Nokia to make the "Google Nexus 9". And you know what? If they want to do that, there's nothing stopping them in their partnership with Microsoft from doing that later on.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (SymbianOS/9.4; Series60/5.0 NokiaN97-3/22.2.110; Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1) AppleWebKit/525 (KHTML, like Gecko) BrowserNG/7.1.4)

been using an N97 w/o major issue for over a year....
just minor ones....
still find it hard to replace since it offers more features than what's available...
 
Brilliant! So you didn't think there were enough threads for this subject already and decided to start a new one. Do you get paid for every word you write? Hint, your posts are too bleeding long and confusing.
 
first of all you're using one of the cheapest s^1 phone. it's modeled after the 5800 with less features. i don't know how you can compare it to the n95 with was the flagship at the time.

just wondering who told you that the battery was better? everyone complained about the battery life lasting less than a day. if you turn down the brightness and switch to a white theme, it should help some though.

for the C drive, i'm not sure what is happening with your phone. as i recall, you guys have like 1-200 mbs of C: drive space compared to the 5800. they only thing i see eating that up is saved messages and a cache that you don't delete. i believe mfe uses the C: drive as well.

other than that, i agree about the updates. they need to push it out faster. the only phone other than the n95 8gb that has more firmware updates is the 5800, that i've used anyways. the e71 has a few as well.

i'm sure that if you picked up the n97 in the first place, you're experience would have closely lined up with the n95, except for the low ram and C: drive space in the beginning which gets kind of fixed later on.

as for the wp7 comments. have you used the OS at all? it's severely crippled at this point. it's more like a dumbphone OS imo right now. maybe things will change after the update, but right now, i'd rather have symbian as their OS. sure wp7 looks nice, and has great email support but i need more than that.
 
irrelevant. the n95 would run into the same problem, it just has a larger c drive so it takes longer for it to happen. there's no justification for removing the sip stack either.



I did that, it doesn't matter. the screen should turn off completely when not in use. the 5230 does that now, but I shouldn't have to buy a new phone to get what could be included in a fw update.



plenty of people have that issue. it's more noticable when you don't have much space.



and the n95 8gb updates were pathetic. still not a single one to extend the battery life. nokia just wants you to give it up and buy a new phone from them.



I have used WP7. It's a hell of a better experience than Symbian. Obviously it's missing SIP, but then again so is anything Symbian since 9.2...
 
I really think Symbian peaked with the Nokia E90, E71, N95. It's sad.

Yes, the built in SIP client was a wonderful thing. I still put my SIM in my E90 occasionally. If only it had US 3G I would probably still be using it regularly.

I have no interest in WM7.

For several years I primarily bought Nokia phones. My first Symbian phone was a Nokia 3600. My old Psion PDA was also great. However, I've moved on to Android like so many others.

If only Nokia had gone with Android...
 
never had the problem on the n95-8gb. i still had it working until a few months ago when the screen cracked. but i agree, there is no justification for removing the sip stack at all. maybe in the 5230 it made some sense as it was the less featured version of the 5800.



are you talking about the screen on the n95 not turning off? or the 5230? the screen on either phones have always turned off for me with the keylock on. that should be a non-issue.



it could be your memory management. i have the 5800 which has even less C: space than you and it's fine.



it's because they fixed that with the n95-1. as you can recall, that phone had a number of problems that were fixed, and the battery life was extended through fw updates. then the n95 8gb came out after all that being fairly stable and went from there.



the n97 v20 update re-enabled SIP. and s^3 has SIP.

to me, it's very beautiful, and the experience overall seem better. but the limitations it has totally ruin it for me. usb as a mass storage not included? i mean come on. every phone can do that nowadays. but i'm pretty open, i hope that they can deal away with all those issues and make it better. it's just at this point in time, i'd pick symbian over WP7.
 
That logic is the whole problem with Symbian as a platform or OS. That type of thinking, removing features for lower end handsets is a dumbphone or featurephone mentality. If you get a phone with a particular OS, you expect any phone with that OS, hardware permitting, to have that feature. Arbitrarily removing such a feature undermines the platform's status as an actual smartphone OS, and is a strong contributor to why some people don't consider Symbian phones to be smartphones.




N95 8GB and E62, but really anything before FP2. The screen saver would always still be active telling you the time and slowly draining battery, and it would have been a simple affair to change the setting to off completely (rather than just backlight off) in one of the updates. They obviously realised the importance of it as with the 5230 the screen turns off completely, so why not put that feature on older phones, encouraging users who buy a Symbian phone in knowing that it'll have some longevity.



it has nothing to do with my memory management, and everything to do with how Nokia has set it up. If I install a program, I end up losing space on C. once the program is on E, and I do a hard reset, I still have the program with all the same functionality, but no wasted space. and seriously, you're still trying to defend Symbian?



not true, there were a number of updates that could have come to the n95 8gb that didn't. Nokia just abandoned their flagship phone.



where's the 5230 update re-enabling it, and why the **** did they take it out in the first place?



none of the bullet list features people list for symbian are worth anything if you have to do a bloody hard reset after installing a certain number of programs just to keep space clear. that's just bad design from the ground up. if you buy a nokia and do nothing with it and install nothing, it works fine, but try to actually use it as a smartphone by installing programs on it and you have no end of troubles. hell, anything that autostarted on my n95 8gb, while handy had as bad of an effect on performance and stability as autostarting programs do on windows. multitasking was the same way, I'd have total recall running in the background, but if I was doing something that used up RAM it would just shut off. that's not actually that useful anymore, because some of those features actually need to work the whole damn time, and I don't like having to restart the phone on a regular basis.

with windows phone 7, the features that they have actually work, and they're slowly adding to it, again making sure everything they do include works as you'd expect it to. that at least is better than having a bunch of features, but only really being able to take advantage of one of them, because if you use a couple together there's a conflict and the phone crashes.
 
I'm lamenting choice. I quite enjoyed the choice of choosing Nokia previously even though there were quirks in Symbian I personally didn't have too much trouble to over look. With everyone around me bugging me about why I haven't gone iphone or android yet, I was still perfectly content with Nokia. Now I'm forced to go the way everyone else is going cause I really don't think I want WP7 phone.
 
i see what you mean, the problem with that is probably that they didn't consider that to be a big deal. tbh, i don't think i know of anyone but you that disliked it. i'm pretty sure they did that for the 5xxx was because the battery was so miniscule. barely lasts like 8 hours. the n95 8gb lasted way more than that.



it doesn't lose that much c: space. that's the thing i don't get. i had a 5800 with more than 30 apps, and it's fine. they only time i run into trouble is messages and the browser cache (mfe used to be a big problem, but i stopped using that).

i guess you can say i'm defending it. i agree that more space would be better, but it's not THAT bad, you can manage. if you don't want to, then fine.



that is true for a lot of other phone manufacturers too. this comment seems like it's a hatred more against Nokia than it is about the Symbian OS



lol maybe the 5xxx music phones weren't important enough. iono. have you tried using wink streaming to see if that worked?

also, if you're into cfw, flash c6 cfw on there and you'll have the SIP stack back.



honestly, all these issues are valid with s^1 an that is by far the worst version i've use (much like vista). i think you would have a better experience with s^3 at the very least. all they needed was better email, better ui, and some optimizations.

for WP7, yes the features that they have all work great. but the OS itself has stability problems as well. i used to have to do battery pulls almost as much as i had to do with my n97 (v.11). there there are those memory errors. it was like the n95-1 all over again, except with even less features.

but symbian could be way better, and so could WP7.
 
It doesn't really matter if they thought it was a big deal or not, blackberries would last for days, and why wouldn't they provide their users with an opportunity to have longer battery life? particularly given it would be such an incredibly simple fix to include in an update. until symbian^3 it wasn't even possible to handle something small like that as an update, which is really quite sad.



I honestly can't figure out why it uses up so much so quickly. there's really no logical reason for it, but somewhere the OS is bleeding internal storage space, and you can check Nokia's forums, it's a common issue with no proper solution (backup and hard reset isn't a proper solution)



I can manage, but I shouldn't have to. It's an incredibly flawed OS if it makes me do that.




it's true for other phone manufacturers for their dumbphones, not for their smartphones, and is completely untrue in the case of WP7 because of how they're doing things. also untrue of Apple, and is one of the reasons that Apple is a leader rather than a follower.



that's poor handling of the operating system. I did get some 3rd party SIP programs running, and they did work (poorly), so does skype, so it's not like the hardware wasn't capable of handling it.



I'll have to look into that.



it's not just S^1, it's a problem with S60v3, FP1, FP2 and S^1. Sure, S^3 fixed some of the issues, but other ones are still there, and they took their sweet time getting around to it, given they could have supported micro updates back before FP1 and offered a uniform upgrade keeping all S60v3 devices in a particular class on even footing.

for WP7, yes the features that they have all work great. but the OS itself has stability problems as well. i used to have to do battery pulls almost as much as i had to do with my n97 (v.11). there there are those memory errors. it was like the n95-1 all over again, except with even less features.



symbian will only get marginally better, it's been around so long that it's easy to know what to expect, and you don't expect much from symbian or you get disappointed. wp7 will improve a lot more.
 
if I may, I am new to using Symbian based phones (had an old Psion PDA years back, but anyway) I have an E71 running Symbian I think 9.2 FP1 (If i'm not mistaken).. and anyway, when reading this discussion the screen saver was mentioned, now mine was active, I still have better battery life on the e71 than on my iPhone 3GS, or any of the android phones I have, and even my WinMo 6.1 pro.., but anyway, I went into profiles and there is an option to turn screen saver off, so I did, now the screen is totally off.. when screen saver was running, the backlight was off, but you could still see the screen saver if you held the phone so light was on it from an outside source, so at least the version of symbian on the e71 does allow you to turn off the display completely (doesn't make sense to run a screensaver with the backlight off anyway lol)
I like how the OS will turn on Wi-Fi as needed, as opposed to having to turn it on and off myself (saves battery life right there lol)the phone lasts all day and then some, wheras my androids and iphone either needed charging diring the day or in the case of the iPhone I used a Mophie pack to keep it going (mind u, this is with moderate use). to get all day out of my Epic, I had to run brightness at the lowest setting, turn off wi-fi, and gps (unless they were being used) just to get a decent ammount of time out of it... not on the e71, I am using it the same, and the battery still shows at least 50% charge left on some days (other days even better).. guess I kinda did that backwards, went to an E71 after having some of the better phones on the market. I am currently unemployed so I had to temp cancel my contract phone and get a prepay, went with Straight Talk and got an e71, and am VERY happy with this phone, yeah the OS seems dated compared to Android and iOS, but since I still have those devices around I can use them on wi-fi if I need to see a pretty display lol, plus I carry the epic for its camera.. the e71 doesn't have a bad camera, but sometimes I prefer the epic :>.. anyway, that was my .02

also, if I had to choose, would be Android/Web OS as first choice (either one, its a tie in my book), then iOS. I am not a fan of Windows as a phone OS, esp wp7 (or Zune with a phone added) I already have a Zune HD, so I don't need a phone added to it (sorry, but that's all the WP7 seems like to me right now. they should have waited til they had more in it to release it, but that is the Microsoft way
 
"i guess you can say i'm defending it. i agree that more space would be better, but it's not THAT bad, you can manage. if you don't want to, then fine.
I can manage, but I shouldn't have to. It's an incredibly flawed OS if it makes me do that."
(Quoted from Mobilicity)
(sorry cut and paste quote there)

i'm not sure what other phone OS's u have used, so please bear with me here, Symbian isn't the only phone OS with bad memory management .. Android (up to 2.1), Blackberry OS 5, WinMo 6.1Pro all had the same issues, I was constantly being told I had to make room for programs, or was running out of memory, even when installing to external memory (oh wait, up to Android 2.2 you can't install to external memory, heck my e71 lets me do that in most cases, and how much older is it?... all smartphone OS's seem to have this issue in one form or another (save maybe iOS, haven't hit that wall yet lol).. I get that you are happy that they will be going with WP7, as this is my first Nokia Smartphone (and last if they stay with a microsoft based solution). and that's great that you are happy, but you have to expect that there are people that won't be happy, and either aren't having issues with their symbian phones like you are, or are getting around the issues

so far i'm not that impressed with what they brought to the table, esp considering how long we been hearing about Zunephone, or the new Windows Mobile platform, or whatever they called it during development
 
Yeah, they introduced the feature with 9.2, what annoys me is that you basically get it on a per-phone basis rather than any S60v3 phone getting the update. The E71 would have had a better battery life than most phones, my E62 did as well, but the option to completely turn the screen saver off would have it improve even more.

As for memory issues with BlackBerry - yeah, installing a lot of programs led to a really slow startup time, and you could only install to internal memory, which was quite the pain, but at least the problems were logical and easily solvable. With Symbian even if you delete the program you still have it taking up space on internal memory. The only way to clear it is with a hard reset, whereas with BBOS you could just delete the programs you weren't using to clear memory. Any OS that forces you to completely wipe everything on a regular basis is the opposite of a powerful OS.
 
In fairness to android and these always connected phones, its simply all the Google services constantly connected to data that kills the battery so fast.

I've tried turning off data, simulating how my symbian phones work. And I made it thru an 8 hour day, with 1 hour of screen on time, 30 min of voice calls, and about 20 texts, and my nexus one was at 80% battery level. Pretty damn impressive to me.

Symbian devices just aren't always connected devices. Instead the data session only fires up when it needs to, like if you open the web browser, then you see the data icon initiate the data session. Close the browser and it terminates it.

Android keeps data session on all the time no matter what. So It's just a different usage philosophy. But the android Linux kernel is actually super efficient. I'd argue its equal or more efficient than symbian. They just function differently, and not many people seem to pick up on this reason.

Sometimes I'll go out drinking, turn off the data connection cause I need that juice, and 5 hours later my android is still at 97% battery. Seems to me its very good on battery from an OS and kernel perspective. The killer starts when the data connection thrown into the mix.
 
I've been using a 3600 mAh battery from Mugen on my G2 (Desire Z) for the last month or so. Pretty much no matter what I do, it gets me through the day. I charge nightly anyway.

Even the E90 would not have great battery life when I did things that would keep the network connection going like Activesync push, IM+.

Sure, the 3600 mAh battery makes the G2 bulkier, but compared to my Nokia E90, it is about the same thickness. The G2 with the Mugen battery fits in my pocket and gets me through a the day. That's what matters.
 
Yeah, listening to internet radio kills the battery fast on all my Nokias. I can handle it now as I live in Downtown Vancouver, so I'm rarely away from home all that long, but before when I'd be gone from home for 8-10 hours unable to charge, it was pretty bad.
 
i have had to get back memory on C, but I have never had to do a hard reset, I just deleted the program, and in some cases did a battery pull (common on a lot of phones), usually got the memory back (this is on the E71 mind you).. maybe i'm doing something different, but I have had no more problems with Symbian, than with any other smartphone OS
 
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