There Will Be Blood #1- When ambition meets faith

Well, okay then. :) Not trying to argue with you, come on, I think TWBB is the better movie too!

But I do have to ask: why did H.W. set fire to Henry's bed? Did he know he was an imposter? I've been wondering about that... and just curious, why do you think Daniel killed Eli?
 
Haha. lol I guess it's not a topic everyone would like to research. Like you, I took a few Phsych courses but I'm not a Psych major. :) But you learn a quite a bit anyway so it's cool.

Oh, no problem. I wrote a lot so yeah.. :lol: Maybe my wording was confusing. :D

The score was so good. Sometimes you almost don't notice it because it's so involved in synch with movie it feels natural. :nod: I love scores that do that.
 
True enough.

OK, something I've always wanted to know: did you think Daniel loved H.W.?
 
Well that's just my opinion :shrug:

And it's not wrong, its just what I think. :)

Sure NCFOM was a great film but to me TWBB was as close to flawless as I've ever seen.

I can find many flaws in NCFOM.
 
Aha. Oh, why can't people be as informed as you and I are! :lmao:

Oh, was that what you meant? Seems like I misinterpreted you, then. My bad. Anyway. So - what did you make of the score? Since we're also on the topic of music in the Jesse James thread and all.
 
Well no not exactly, Shay, because I think No Country is a very good movie as well... it's just that TWBB is more daring, more unconventional, weirder. Both are very good movies, and I'm glad that I managed to see both when they were released.

I do think that TWBB should have won Best Picture over No Country, now that I've seen both. No Country definitely gets Best Directing, for sure, but Best Picture... if it's about overall effort, the different elements coming together then No Country wins it, but if it's in terms of sheer power then it's TWBB. Ultimately I think TWBB was just a bit too weird for the Academy voters. It's a shame, but TWBB will definitely be one of the greats in time to come.

The funny thing is, I don't know if I can watch TWBB again. It's the kind of movie that takes a lot out of the viewer, it leaves you feeling singularly repulsed, but in a good way. It takes a lot to watch it, you know? It's not easy viewing. No Country is definitely easier to watch, I watched that twice and neither occasion did it leave me feeling as drained as TWBB did.
 
:nod: Split personality is now called Dissociative Identity Disorder.




Then we don't disagree at all in this specific point. :) That's what I meant, that Daniel was obsessive enough to submit himself to the 'baptism' just so he could get them to do things his way. It's all a big manipulation for him. :nod: He's an amoral character like Wall Street's Gordon Gekko. All in the name of money.
 
Oh, totally. :nod: He was salivating, enjoying his victory. But there weren't that many options after gloating. Eli was no longer a valid enemy, he ate him up.

Yes, the cinematography here was also top notch!
 
Oh? I didn't know that. Oh, poor daughters :(



QFT. I could not agree more. I did this module called biological psychology (I'm a psych major) last semester and my lecturer is specialised in schizophrenia so I remember doing a fair bit of reading up on schizophrenia - and nowhere does it say that it involves a split personality. Schizophrenia is many things, the closest would be the hallucinations/delusions you mentioned, but not a split personality... in fact isn't that a separate illness altogether? Never mind, I'm going OT.

Interesting! I never knew that about Peter Pan, or for that matter, I never thought in that way for Paul/Eli. All I read into it was that Paul Dano was asked to do Paul Sunday, and then PTA asked him to be Eli so I suppose there wasn't time/was pointless to get someone else to do the Paul scene again. After all, they're twins. And as for them not being together, I simply thought it would be rather impossible for Paul Dano to play both people in the same scene.

As for your interpretation, I think it's an interesting one and I like how you talk about Daniel's less brutal qualities disappearing after a while, but I don't really agree with your interpretation of the baptism scene as Daniel's gentler side. I thought it was him having to go through it so that he could buy the tract of land from that guy (I forgot his name). To me the baptism was Daniel's humiliation - he only submitted to it because greed overrode everything else and he would do anything necessary to have more oil/money. And of course Eli took it as a chance for revenge which probably intensified Daniel's hatred for Eli. Plus the baptism scene was later on in the movie, so I would have thought his gentler qualities would have been buried by then, no?

My take on it would seem like I subscribe to the theory of random occurance (at least in the Paul/Eli area) but in general I think that in any half-decent movie everything you see is planned. So I'm not really sure. Hmm. Will have to think about this!
 
i think TWBB is the best film of the year and it deserved the oscar for best picture. Still im not sure i would have loved this so much if DDL was not in it. Im a big fan of his for years and he never fails me!

NCFOM was a good movie as well, but TWBB was much more powerful as far as im concerned. I need to watch this again! :D
 
No, but I felt that he took quite a bit of pleasure telling Eli that the Bandy tract had been drained dry. He wasn't ashamed of telling Eli that he had cheated and that it would lead to Eli's ruin, he was manically delighted actually. It's like he was taking pride in besting Eli. I don't think the killing was on purpose, he was just carried away and it was definitely not out of wanting out of the situation. And when he says 'I'm finished' that's more to do with his feud, because he had come up top. I don't think he actually hid his hatred for Eli at any point - except the baptism scene perhaps. Er, not sure if I've made sense so far, hopefully I have...

Yes! And on a side note, I think Robert Elswitt did a fantastic job with the cinematography. You know I like Roger Deakin's work but I think that on the whole Robert Elswitt's work with There Will Be Blood was just a bit better this time around. I really hope Roger Deakins gets his Oscar soon though, he deserves it!
 
:nod: Difficult it is.

I just meant that he couldn't lie out of that one. There was nothing he could've said to Eli at that moment. Even if Eli was going to buy anything he said, he was insane, he wasn't able to coldly give out a response to calm him or get rid of him. Eli was there, going crazy, he wasn't going to stop. Daniel had created that situation and now he needed to end it and he did it by beating Eli to death. It was the culmination of his madness. "I'm finished" he admits before the credits roll out.

There was nothing left in him but hatred and he was basking in it, letting it take over, unable to hide it anymore.

---

I agree with you about the imagery of the oil, the symbolism throughout the movie. It was literal at times, but still moving. At the beginning, when someone "baptizes" HW with oil on the forehead was the movie in a nutshell.
 
I think TWBB is a much better film than NCFOM.

It's a true classic and timeless masterpiece.

I truly dont think anyone will even remember NCFOM in a few years time.

I completely forgot it after i saw it but TWBB has stayed with the whole time after i saw it and is still with me.

TWBB was powerful and meaningful and resonated with me very deeply. Plus it was so daring and unconventional yet classic at the same time, theres a not another film like it.

NCFOM was great but just isn't in the same league imo.
 
It was suggested in a scene (the one where Eli attacks his dad) that Eli abused his father when he didn't comply with "the Lord's will" and so he encouraged him to do the same with his daughters.

***

Here's my humble opinion on Paul/Eli. And yeah, I agree, schizophrenia wouldn't fit even if Paul/Eli were the same person. Schizophrenia usually does cause paranoia and distortion of reality, but thinking/acting like 2 different people would probably be an entirely different diagnosis. I just think people use "schizophrenia" for all kinds of things even when it's not the best term for the situation.

Here's my take on Paul/Eli Sunday, wether they are 2 or the same people.

In Peter Pan productions, Mr. Darling and Captain Hook are usually portrayed by the same actor. This is meaningful, not originally, but as the trend continued, some read some subtext behind it. Hook is usually the villain, Mr. Darling is Wendy's father, not perfect, but deep down very loving. The dichotomy of the characters meaning in Wendy's life is interesting. They're both males that control her destiny in different ways.

In TWBB, Paul is apparently straight, looking for money, and obviously strong enough to go and make this kind of offer to a total stranger. Eli is an overzealous pompous figure that must have some kind of control and even glory from those around him.

Daniel has both of these characteristics, but his madness and lust for power consumed all. Daniel held his appetite knowing he needed to stay cool to keep his business attractive. He even accepts the offer to attend Eli's service, "confess" and accept redemption. While he never was a good man, apparently, he was a dreamer with intiative just like Paul appeared to be. However, Paul was never seen again, just like Daniel's less brutal qualities.

Now, I'm not saying this WAS what the movie intended, but it's what I took from it. Then I thought about it and sort of came to the conclusion that Paul wasn't just some trick solely to keep the audience guessing, but that in any good movie, there's deeper meaning to seemingly random occurences. But that's just my take. :D
 
Yeah it's a difficult film, isn't it? I loved it (wonder what that says about me), but it's a very difficult movie to like, so I don't know if I can watch it again. It takes a lot out of the viewer. Glad you finally saw it though :)

I don't know about oil corrupting people though. I think it's more the fact that Daniel was always driven by success so no matter what field he went into he would have done well and gone mad. Oil is a nice metaphor though. Not just for the current oil crisis (and with the capitalism vs religion motiif as well, it's crazy stuff) but because oil burns. You can see how it eats people up (more than, say, silver). I don't know how to say it properly, but the image of the oil, it's a very potent image. I mean, the image of the derrick burning, Plainview covered in oil, him saying "No one can get it except for me!" - it's very iconic, isn't it? Very visceral.

Yeah I'd agree that it was his hatred taking over, his wish to completely annihilate an enemy that has been annoying him for too long, because he has to win completely, but I don't know about it arising from a situation he couldn't get out of by lying - what do you mean by that? Unless you're saying that Eli was a mirror to which his hypocrisy and ambition was reflected and he didn't like that truth...?

Oh and natalie8you, go get it! Well I guess you could've confused them since they're both sort of Western-ish movies. And both were made in the same area at the same time. You didn't like NCFOM though? I loved it - loved both actually. Well I hope you like TWBB then. :)
 
Why would Eli make Abel beat the girls? That's weird.



What weird Paul/Eli thing - the fact that Paul Dano played them both? In that case, what does that have to do with Daniel? Or are you referring to something else altogether? :confused: (And by the way, they ARE different people, I don't understand why so many people think that Eli was schizophrenic. In the first place, that's not what schizophrenia is, and secondly, I think it was quite clear that they were twin brothers).
 
Yup, they got married. :nod: I think it was Eli who made him beat up the girls. Wow, I had forgotten about that. Daniel did rescue Mary for those beatings. Interesting.

Maybe Daniel had a softer side like the weird Paul/Eli thing.
 
I agree. No Country is a better movie overall. A lot (but not all) of TWBB's genius is because of DDL and his mad, beautiful performance as Plainview. How do I put this... okay. If any other actor had been able to portray Plainview the way DDL did, then the movie would be a masterpiece. If not, then it would not have been as incredible as it is. So it's not actor-specific, but character-specific. But I can't really think of any actor today that could nail Plainview the way DDL did, so this is rather academic.

But that's not to say the rest of TWBB is bad, just that DDL's Plainview is the driving force behind the movie. For example, I think Paul Dano was ridiculously underrated in TWBB. It takes a master performance to hold your own against Plainview, and Paul Dano's Eli Sunday did it.
 
I always get TWBB and NCFOM confused, although I haven't seen TWBB. The one that I wanted to see was TWBB and I got NCFOM by accident. :lol: And I didn't even like it that much. Now I haven't got around to going to the video store for awhile, but I will eventually! Hopefully sooner rather than later.
 
Another movie I finally watched.

Hm, yes, a ha. :lol: I don't know if I liked it. I think Daniel was a mad man with a mission. I think oil is one of the types of businesses that would drive sane men insane anyway, so Daniel chose an interesting obsession.

Eli was a bully, but he found a bigger bully in Daniel. Eli was never going to be able to beat Daniel at his own game, so that's why I think he killed Eli. The way he did it was so cruel, though. That for Daniel it meant more than just getting rid of an annoyance. It was about his hatred taking over entirely and his capacity for lying his way out of a situation not being an option anymore.
 
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