'The passion of Christ' - teaser trailer
- Thread starter Angie
- Start date
Mauloof Ahmed
New member
In view of the snide remark with which you commence your post and the fact that your personal profile reaRAB.....
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Interests:
2000 channels and counting
each night, and annoying people,
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.....you can hardly expect me to think any exchange of views would be very profitable from my point of view.
However, from reading some of your previous posts I can see that you obviously have a good sense of humour - and the subsequent section of your profile.....
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Occupation:
Soon to be redundant I think
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......also suggests that you may well "have the time and patience". So I am tempted to co-operate.
I must confess, however, that when I first speed-read your post I thought you had written "I do not have the time and patience to read it" which would seem logical in view of the unpromising opening.
Tell you what I suggest. It would be highly inappropriate, and well off topic, to carry out an extended debate in this thread, so why don't you send me your email address in a PM, or, if you prefer, ask me to send you mine. We can then debate the issue off-site until either you annoy me to the point of exasperation or I bore you to the point of death.
================================
Interests:
2000 channels and counting
each night, and annoying people,
================================
.....you can hardly expect me to think any exchange of views would be very profitable from my point of view.
However, from reading some of your previous posts I can see that you obviously have a good sense of humour - and the subsequent section of your profile.....
============================
Occupation:
Soon to be redundant I think
============================
......also suggests that you may well "have the time and patience". So I am tempted to co-operate.
I must confess, however, that when I first speed-read your post I thought you had written "I do not have the time and patience to read it" which would seem logical in view of the unpromising opening.
Tell you what I suggest. It would be highly inappropriate, and well off topic, to carry out an extended debate in this thread, so why don't you send me your email address in a PM, or, if you prefer, ask me to send you mine. We can then debate the issue off-site until either you annoy me to the point of exasperation or I bore you to the point of death.
I saw the film this week and have to say I was a bit blown away by the level of violence.
I was sort of expecting it, given all the pre-reviews and then the (numerous) trailers and then all the blurb in the newspapers, but was still not prepared for the amount of gore there was.
I've noticed all the other stuff about whether its anti-semitic or not and have to say, from a personal perspective, having seen it now, that in my opinion it WASN'T anti-semitic. There was no Christianity before Jesus after all! And the Jews DID want him dead! - but as for being an anti-semitic film, I couldn't say it was. It simply stated it as it happened (so we are told - by an almost 2000 year old book after all).
At the end of the day, whether you are a christian or not (and I'm not, even though mummy and daddy wanted me to be), the film is powerful in the extreme. Its the first time ever that I've left a cinema actually wondering about my own beliefs (which are practically non-existent) and feeling more than a little bit sad about what humans can do to each other. Whether or not it converts people to religion is irrelevant in my opinion, as long as it makes them think, just a little, about how we, as humans judge and treat each other.
My only strong though about the film trailers are that they convey a message about the film being about 'love' - It most certainly was not about love, but more about the brutaility of humanity. And my goodness, how it did so!
An amazing film, for a multitude of reasons, beautifully shot, in fact probably the most sumptuous film I have ever seen and with an outstanding soundtrack.
As for Mel Gibson being involved in it, I couldnt have cared less, but suffice to say, I'm glad he made it (for whatever reason).
I was sort of expecting it, given all the pre-reviews and then the (numerous) trailers and then all the blurb in the newspapers, but was still not prepared for the amount of gore there was.
I've noticed all the other stuff about whether its anti-semitic or not and have to say, from a personal perspective, having seen it now, that in my opinion it WASN'T anti-semitic. There was no Christianity before Jesus after all! And the Jews DID want him dead! - but as for being an anti-semitic film, I couldn't say it was. It simply stated it as it happened (so we are told - by an almost 2000 year old book after all).
At the end of the day, whether you are a christian or not (and I'm not, even though mummy and daddy wanted me to be), the film is powerful in the extreme. Its the first time ever that I've left a cinema actually wondering about my own beliefs (which are practically non-existent) and feeling more than a little bit sad about what humans can do to each other. Whether or not it converts people to religion is irrelevant in my opinion, as long as it makes them think, just a little, about how we, as humans judge and treat each other.
My only strong though about the film trailers are that they convey a message about the film being about 'love' - It most certainly was not about love, but more about the brutaility of humanity. And my goodness, how it did so!
An amazing film, for a multitude of reasons, beautifully shot, in fact probably the most sumptuous film I have ever seen and with an outstanding soundtrack.
As for Mel Gibson being involved in it, I couldnt have cared less, but suffice to say, I'm glad he made it (for whatever reason).
You started it ! - (Pot, kettle, etc.)
Yes of course I would gladly consider a greater discussion on your opening comment ('God's chosen people' indeed ), however it is actually very much in line with the thread bearing in mind this was exactly the same vein as the opening salvo of criticisms levelled at the Gibson film.
As such, the idea of any anti-semetic view should at least be balanced by a pro-semetic opinion - the above statement from you has of course given this discussion some evening of the keel, and so it would be a shame to keep the other posters in the dark.
Maybe this is better discussed in General Discussion , since there appears to be no 'religous discussion part of the forum. Ill start the thread quoting you if you have no objection, and ask that any responses given are based on actual fact, and not clouded by personal views, chips on shoulders, old wives tales etc.
And I promise Ill go see the film this weekend, it does sound like it could be an entertaining evening out.
Yes of course I would gladly consider a greater discussion on your opening comment ('God's chosen people' indeed ), however it is actually very much in line with the thread bearing in mind this was exactly the same vein as the opening salvo of criticisms levelled at the Gibson film.
As such, the idea of any anti-semetic view should at least be balanced by a pro-semetic opinion - the above statement from you has of course given this discussion some evening of the keel, and so it would be a shame to keep the other posters in the dark.
Maybe this is better discussed in General Discussion , since there appears to be no 'religous discussion part of the forum. Ill start the thread quoting you if you have no objection, and ask that any responses given are based on actual fact, and not clouded by personal views, chips on shoulders, old wives tales etc.
And I promise Ill go see the film this weekend, it does sound like it could be an entertaining evening out.
Well what do you expect for a language that is not spoken anymore?
I mean the filmmakers couldnt make it THAT accurate. They did the best they could, but at the end of the day the film isnt about the language used at that time, its about a story of a possible injustice!
I think you need to watch the film first before you judge on by anything, i am certainly not going to judge until i watch this film, so im neither going to say its good or bad!
I mean the filmmakers couldnt make it THAT accurate. They did the best they could, but at the end of the day the film isnt about the language used at that time, its about a story of a possible injustice!
I think you need to watch the film first before you judge on by anything, i am certainly not going to judge until i watch this film, so im neither going to say its good or bad!
Mmm...I'm afraid I leapt in at the deep end of the thread.
I was doing an advanced search on the name "Jesus" in connection with another post. I'll have to go back and read the thread from the beginning, eh!Absolutely!
Fine by me, mate.
Couldn't agree more, but knowing the head of steam
this kind of thing generates I wouldn't be surprised
if we had to press the abuse button quite a few times.
It only comes round my way on the 26th so I'm told.
I hope it's not too entertaining. I'm going as a lenten penance.
Cheers.
In that case it would be a damned shame to start off the proceedings in GD without someone else in the ring.
Ill hold back (for now) as the evolving thread might be construed as totally anti-semitic, and I wouldnt wish that.
Youll be in good company, Ill probably have my pagan hat on and get lynched for not taking anyones side except the otters noses.
Ill hold back (for now) as the evolving thread might be construed as totally anti-semitic, and I wouldnt wish that.
Youll be in good company, Ill probably have my pagan hat on and get lynched for not taking anyones side except the otters noses.
Wrong Turn
New member
Well according to Newsnight review, the film works as a very powerful horror movie that feels very real! Click here to watch the video (real player needed)
However as i said before i will need to brave this film first to judge!
However as i said before i will need to brave this film first to judge!
marcellusthevampire
New member
Read the thread. All rather anodyne I thought. :yawn:
Ready when you are.
Ready when you are.
AnimeGoddess893
New member
I've seen this film, one question when Jesus was nailed to the cross, was it through the palms as portrayed or through the wrists as I have heard elsewhere?
[email protected]
New member
Through the hanRAB. If you nail through the wrists then the victim is likely to bleed to death. The Romans wanted their victims to suffer for a long time. Crucified people often took several days to die. This has lead some people to suggest that Jesus did not die after one day on the cross and might have been taken down alive. There is no way of knowing what actually happened in Jesus' case but there are stories of people being rescued from crosses. Whether they survived long afterwarRAB I don't know. I would expect most died from infected wounRAB.
As individuals maybe, not as a "people". Remember, God doesn't do genocide any more. He promised Noah.
You are on pretty dodgy ground here theologically but I think it actually helps prove my point by demonstrating that the belief that the Jews somehow betrayed Jesus leaRAB to a belief that persecution was ever somehow God's will.
Where on Earth did you get all that from? Lets take it in two parts:
1. Why should the Holocaust have ended a particular phase of history? Genocide, against all sorts of people, goes on to varying extents. The persecution of the Jews before the 1930s was also very violent. Whole communities were murdered. Are you really saying that God wanted the blood of 6 million before he was happy? What we have seen after the Holocaust is a major reevaluation of the Jews by Christians. For this to be worthwhile it has to mean going back and admitting that all of the persecution was wrong, not just the stuff done by the godless Nazis and Soviets. Fudges, like the one you suggest, have no logical or theological basis and they don't please anybody.
2. You do a massive disservice to Jews if you really believe that God has given them back Israel as their "promised land". Israel is just another country. The Israelis are just another nationality. There is no sign of any grand prophesy being fulfilled. I don't want to hear any more of this "God gave it to us", "No. Allah gave it to us." nonsense. They have to learn to share it equitably! After all, if God really did give Jeruselem to the Jews and the Muslims, sharing it is the only way to honour both his bequests.
I think you misunderstood my point. My point was that the truth (or otherwise) of transubstantiation doesn't affect non-Christians so there is no reason for non-Christians to make an issue of it. The circumstances of Jesus death does affect non-Christians and hence it is an issue for wider discussion, particularly among the Jews who have a very strong case, supported now by many Christian experts, that they have been misrepresented in the Gospels.
BTW: If anybody is wondering where I am coming from, I am an atheist of Jewish descent who wants to see sensible people of all religions unite against extremism in the name of peace and tollerance.
You are on pretty dodgy ground here theologically but I think it actually helps prove my point by demonstrating that the belief that the Jews somehow betrayed Jesus leaRAB to a belief that persecution was ever somehow God's will.
Where on Earth did you get all that from? Lets take it in two parts:
1. Why should the Holocaust have ended a particular phase of history? Genocide, against all sorts of people, goes on to varying extents. The persecution of the Jews before the 1930s was also very violent. Whole communities were murdered. Are you really saying that God wanted the blood of 6 million before he was happy? What we have seen after the Holocaust is a major reevaluation of the Jews by Christians. For this to be worthwhile it has to mean going back and admitting that all of the persecution was wrong, not just the stuff done by the godless Nazis and Soviets. Fudges, like the one you suggest, have no logical or theological basis and they don't please anybody.
2. You do a massive disservice to Jews if you really believe that God has given them back Israel as their "promised land". Israel is just another country. The Israelis are just another nationality. There is no sign of any grand prophesy being fulfilled. I don't want to hear any more of this "God gave it to us", "No. Allah gave it to us." nonsense. They have to learn to share it equitably! After all, if God really did give Jeruselem to the Jews and the Muslims, sharing it is the only way to honour both his bequests.
I think you misunderstood my point. My point was that the truth (or otherwise) of transubstantiation doesn't affect non-Christians so there is no reason for non-Christians to make an issue of it. The circumstances of Jesus death does affect non-Christians and hence it is an issue for wider discussion, particularly among the Jews who have a very strong case, supported now by many Christian experts, that they have been misrepresented in the Gospels.
BTW: If anybody is wondering where I am coming from, I am an atheist of Jewish descent who wants to see sensible people of all religions unite against extremism in the name of peace and tollerance.
ZeloDude96
New member
I expect them to make the translation 100% accurate, that's not too much to ask. Latin is not spoken, but stories are still written in that language; it'd be a brave publisher who brushed off a few errors, thinking no-one'll ever notice!
And I thought the movie was supposed to be about love, or something. I think that's what christianity is meant to be about. The main injustice in this film is to the Aramic language!
And I thought the movie was supposed to be about love, or something. I think that's what christianity is meant to be about. The main injustice in this film is to the Aramic language!
Allie hunter
New member
Its your downfall if your going to let a few minor mistakes ruin the film for you! Some of the most well-loved / known films have minor mistakes in them, star wars - a new hope, is the one that springs to mind. Your going to tell me you hated that film just because the storm-trooper banged his head when he walked through that door! Damn storm-troopers!
I think your being too critical of the film and you havent even seen it yet!
I'm looking forward to seeing this film though. I hope its a good yarn!
I think your being too critical of the film and you havent even seen it yet!
I'm looking forward to seeing this film though. I hope its a good yarn!
Six Samurai
New member
Dr Johnson was walking down a narrow lane one day.
Houses on either side were of the old fashioned type with upper stories projecting almost half way across the street.
From opposite upper story windows two women were leaning out and having a violent argument.
Dr Johnson paused for a moment and contemplated the scene before him.
Turning to his companion he observed.
"Those women will never agree. They are arguing from different premises."
Now, frankly - the premises of a traditionalist Roman Catholic and "an atheist of Jewish descent" (ergo, a lapsed Jew in the religious sense) are so different that there is virtually no common ground for profitable debate on this subject.
I have stated my position. You have stated yours. Let's leave it at that.
One thing I will say though. Everyone dies sooner or later. I think you are prepared to agree with me on that one.
In my case it will probably be sooner. Difficult to judge in your case since you give little away in your Profile. However, Guildford is a heathy spot so it will probably be later. 
If when I die I stand before the judgment seat of God then I will have the satisfaction of knowing I am right to believe in Him and you are wrong.
And if we should run across each other at the final judgement after the world has ended, then I will have the additional satisfaction of being able to say "Yah boo.
Told you so"
You on the other hand presumably don't believe in an after life.
When we die, that's it - finito.
So you will never have the satisfaction of knowing that you were right and I was wrong.
If I'm wrong and you're right, then I lose nothing.
But if you're wrong and I'm right, then, unless you are what theologians term "invincibly ignorant" (and I doubt very much that you are), you lose everything. One has to be very confident in one's own infallibility to take such a huge risk.
Life is a b****r, that's for sure.
Houses on either side were of the old fashioned type with upper stories projecting almost half way across the street.
From opposite upper story windows two women were leaning out and having a violent argument.
Dr Johnson paused for a moment and contemplated the scene before him.
Turning to his companion he observed.
"Those women will never agree. They are arguing from different premises."
Now, frankly - the premises of a traditionalist Roman Catholic and "an atheist of Jewish descent" (ergo, a lapsed Jew in the religious sense) are so different that there is virtually no common ground for profitable debate on this subject.
I have stated my position. You have stated yours. Let's leave it at that.
One thing I will say though. Everyone dies sooner or later. I think you are prepared to agree with me on that one.
In my case it will probably be sooner. Difficult to judge in your case since you give little away in your Profile. However, Guildford is a heathy spot so it will probably be later. If when I die I stand before the judgment seat of God then I will have the satisfaction of knowing I am right to believe in Him and you are wrong.
And if we should run across each other at the final judgement after the world has ended, then I will have the additional satisfaction of being able to say "Yah boo.
Told you so"You on the other hand presumably don't believe in an after life.
When we die, that's it - finito.
So you will never have the satisfaction of knowing that you were right and I was wrong.
If I'm wrong and you're right, then I lose nothing.
But if you're wrong and I'm right, then, unless you are what theologians term "invincibly ignorant" (and I doubt very much that you are), you lose everything. One has to be very confident in one's own infallibility to take such a huge risk.
Life is a b****r, that's for sure.
Brrtonman1497
New member
I couldnt agree with you more... some people seem to be a little petty in their criticsm. The film is damn good (and being a non-aramaic speaker - like everyone else - I wouldnt have had a clue whether or not it was grammatically correct). If mistakes have been made, I'm sure only a few will complain and make such a big issue out of it.
Remember kiddies, it's only a film!
Remember kiddies, it's only a film!
I don't think that is necessarily so. Provided each understanRAB where the other is coming from it is possible to discuss these things. Obviously, it would be fruitless for us to get into a discussion about whether Jesus was actually the son of God but we can certainly discuss issues concerning Christian-Jewish relations, for example.
I would hate the believe that it was impossible for people of different faiths to have a meaningful dialogue. After all, how on earth are we going to sort out Israel and Palestine, Northern Ireland, India and Pakistan if we can't talk?
That argument is called Pascal's Razor. It isn't anywhere near as foolproof as it sounRAB initially. It proposes that one should believe in God, irrespective of his actual existance, as a sort of insurance policy. This shows a bizare disregard for the truth. It also falls down flat because of it's binary assumption that either the Christians are right or the Athiests are. Lets not forget that if the Muslims are right we could both be in trouble and if the Hindus or Budhists are right we could both end up reincarnated as slugs.
Fair enough, but as you sneaked in a parting shot, I think it is only fair that I get one too.
I would ask you to look into the extent to which the views on the Jews which you expressed really correspond to those of the Catholic Church. Rather than discuss it with me, as I am neither a believer or an expert, I would advise you to research these matters using Catholic sources. I have heard senior Catholic theologians interviewed on this subject and they had many interesting things to say which impressed me greatly. It is clear that, since WWII, the Catholic Church has been conducting an honest reassessment of it's beliefs and actions regarding the Jews and this is very much to be welcomed.
I would hate the believe that it was impossible for people of different faiths to have a meaningful dialogue. After all, how on earth are we going to sort out Israel and Palestine, Northern Ireland, India and Pakistan if we can't talk?
That argument is called Pascal's Razor. It isn't anywhere near as foolproof as it sounRAB initially. It proposes that one should believe in God, irrespective of his actual existance, as a sort of insurance policy. This shows a bizare disregard for the truth. It also falls down flat because of it's binary assumption that either the Christians are right or the Athiests are. Lets not forget that if the Muslims are right we could both be in trouble and if the Hindus or Budhists are right we could both end up reincarnated as slugs.
Fair enough, but as you sneaked in a parting shot, I think it is only fair that I get one too.
I would ask you to look into the extent to which the views on the Jews which you expressed really correspond to those of the Catholic Church. Rather than discuss it with me, as I am neither a believer or an expert, I would advise you to research these matters using Catholic sources. I have heard senior Catholic theologians interviewed on this subject and they had many interesting things to say which impressed me greatly. It is clear that, since WWII, the Catholic Church has been conducting an honest reassessment of it's beliefs and actions regarding the Jews and this is very much to be welcomed.
dyehardxen
New member
It's a Mel Gibson film, anything could happen.