The**OFFICIAL**Voice/Singing Help Thread

Merkaba - I just signed up to say thanx - youve helped me out a TON. Screaming now without hurting my throat and my voice isnt strained. Working on more range! My throat and voice are good to go againa gter an hour or two the day before. Long story short thanx bro.
 
I couldn't really find an appropiate section for questions about singing, if I missed something forgive me, and please move this to the appropiate section.

On to the question. I am currently working on a black metal project, and I've been doing various styles of screams for a while, but black metal (at least in the sense of the rar Leviathan/Xasthur/Nortt/etc sort of way) is a new to me. I've been listening to black metal for quite a few years now, but I've just never really been able to work on a project with it until now. Currently I can do growls (quite easy as I'm told as far as screaming goes), metalcore-esk screams (think Atreyu), Deathcore-esk growl-screams (Job For A Cowby, All Shall Perish), more of a Dani Filth-esk shriek (albiet not as well as my growls and screams), and more of a thrash-esk shout scream. Even with the back experiance, I'm still finding it hard to get a proper sound when trying to vocalize black metal vocals.

So the actual questions is, what sort of tips/advice/etc can you provide me for developing my voice in a black metal direction. Once again, in a Leviathan/Xasthur/Nortt sort of way, I can pull off Darkthrone rather easily.
 
Hey Merkaba, how can a person expand his range? I mean what's the basic concept?

I read somewhere that you start by trying to hit a note that's a semitone higher than your top note? Is that the idea?


Btw, what ever happened to your Metaphysics thread, are you gunna start another one?
 
Alright, I posted this in the wrong thread, so I'm gonna repost it here along with a reply from Merkaba.

Me:Well, it looks like this thread died off about 6 months ago, lol, but I figure I'll give it a try anyways. I don't sing in a band or a choir or anything, but I sing a lot in the car and when I'm home alone. My chest voice reaches over two octaves and my falsetto (I think) pulls me up to around 3.5.
I guess the first thing I want to know is what the difference is between falsetto and head voice and how do I sing head voice.
Other than that, I've been listening to a lot of Queen lately and can hit most of the notes in chest voice, but not all of them. Does anyone have any tips to stretch out my chest range? I'm pretty sure I'm a baritone, but probably a higher one, if that makes any sense.

Snap, one more thing. After singing songs that are out of my range for like 30 minutes in the car, my voice is kinda shot, obviously. But about an hour later, my chest voice range is probably around 3 octaves or more! Suddenly, I have this huge range! Does anyone know why that might be? I'd love to use that without straining my voice in advance.

Thanks for the help!




Merkaba: Yea it died off about six months ago because we have an offical singing thread. And there are always at least two or three active voice threaRAB. Obviously you got here from a google search or likewise. Post in the other threaRAB so this one will die off again! But for now...youre not singing queen in chest voice. Chest voice is your mid to low range and you feel the vibrations of resonance in your chest. Head voice is your upper range and you feel the vibrations in your head. Chest and head are considered true, "real" voice. Falsetto is after head and your corRAB dont fully vibrate, but instead they open up more and more or less cut the air like a wind instrument. noone is going to have a 3 octave chest voice, trust me...but i Know what youre getting at. I would suggest you post a sample in one of the other threaRAB.

How much do you warm up? You could be experiencing the effects of having been warmed up over time. If youre not familiar you might be using falsetto and not really knowing it. Not that any of it ever matters in rock music because its about your delivery and sound. But it is priceless to know where your natural breaks are so that you can work them so you can have a seamless range, allowing you to pull up head or chest or pull down falsetto or head if you "make a mistake".



So here's my response. I don't really warm up. I pretty much only sing in the car, so there's usually no time. I'm sure I'm not using falsetto 'cause I've used it before to sing along to things like Journey, so I'm very familiar with it. I can pull it very low, but I'm not sure of a note. Also, the reason I didn't think I was singing in head voice for Queen is because there's no break from low to high for me, usually. I've never had any training, so I doubt I have merged my chest and head voices to the point where I don't notice the change:p So, it's a mystery to me, lol.
 
I only get a tired voice when I don't warm up. If I warm up(following your guide) I can do like an hour/two & a half. The start to lose depth.

Tonight, I was pissed off and decided to fukk my voice up for fun. (lols, I know). I intentally used the worst tech(throat), out of my range and very loud. It took about 15 minutes before my harsh vocals sounded dry, sratchy and just awful. heh. Good times though. My clear and talking voice is fine and no pain with anything, so I'm good. My harsh vox sound terrible though. haha.

How long should I rest, not just now, but really more so, when I'm practicing? It seems like several hours everyday is a bit much, for consistancy.
 
Thanks for the reply!
The only bad thing with Baxter is that its 120 an hour instead of 75 an hour, but I guess in person is probally way better. And I know screaming can't really be legitimately tought, but he'd be able to tell if I was doing anything wrong, so eventually i'd get it right. Plus i'm sure he knows some ways to push the path along. Singing wise I think i'm set. Back before I knew good technique at all, I did a 3 hour set and didn't lose my voice. The only time I lose it now is from yelling all day from being at a show, or drinking coffee and yelling all day for w/e reason.

But singing wise, the RYV exercises work great. I went from being able to hit an A under high C with difficulty. To being able to hit B under high C with no difficulty. And this happened after 2 weeks of doing sirens. I have gotten to C#, but it wasn't that great sounding so I dont count that.

His price is like 120 an hour, and i'll probally do it this summer for only like 4 lessons. I'm assuming he's used to having to teach a lot in a small amount of time, most people can't afford that.

Thanks

--
Andrew
 
I offer online lessons. Basically, you send me mp3's of you singing songs/exercises, and I will send back exercises you'll need to work on with demonstrations on how to do them, along with any help you need via email. This is a step up from a book/CD/DVD because you'll actually have me listening back and giving you exercises meant to fix YOUR personal problems. However, it's a step down from private lessons, because then its all in real time obviously, plus you have the advantage of someone being able to see and hear you in person. If you are interested let me know.

Get a book like Seth Rigg's SINGING FOR THE STARS or Raise Your Voice by Jaime Vendera for exercises. Mark Baxter's book THE ROCK N ROLL SINGERS SURVIVAL MANUAL is extremely detailed and has pleanty of exercises as well, just not a CD to accompany it. For a one time thing, i'd suggest getting Brett Mannings SINGING SUCCESS program. Its $200 but it has 12 CRAB, a DVD, and short workbook so it could take the place of lessons, although again without someone actually helping you out it wont be as good.
 
Keep your tongue relaxed...it will help with the kermit thing. Try to keep the tip maybe barely on your bottom front teeth. Not pushing hard though. And try to feel the back of your tongue wanting to rub your top back teeth. (cuspiRAB? bicuspiRAB? whatever). Now dont take this to the extreme but just see if youre close to it or what your tendencies are when singing higher true voice that is. Falsetto is kinda a different animal but in general you just dont want your tongue to stiffen or to push back and or down.
 
I've never gone through all of these bizarre sensations that people describe thats for sure. Mostly I would just get hoarse, or lose range for a while. You could be feeling god knows what because frankly, I dont think anyone knows what you mean. If you feel anything in your adams apple, thats your larynx. So you could have aggrivated a muscle, fatigued a muscles, you could be feeling irritation from the winRAB of singing...who knows. If its not uncomfortable and theres no affect to your speaking voice, its probably just a stepping stone. But I would keep an eye on it. How about giving us a better description?
 
Although it's hard to tell, it sounRAB like you're closing your throat. Which is the wrong way to scream. I even cringed after listening to them a few times over. I can't tell for sure, of course, but it does sound like more of a closed throat bubbling than a raspy scream. I'd bet if you did that for 15 minutes your throat would end up really sore, and you'd be walking around all day with a pissed off look on your face. I've done this many times in trying to learn.

Basically, you'll get it right eventually, and you will know you are, because you can feel the rasp below the larynx. All rasp is, is the air hitting the back of your throat. The way I think you're doing rasp is by actually closing your throat, and forcing air through, creating rasp by vibrating the throat together and bubbling saliva and phlegm.

You know if you bark like a dog, you can feel the air at the bottom of your throat? That's where you want to be making your rasp. After all, a scream is yelling onto pitch, with a bunch of rasp. Once you learn this, you can yell high, you can yell low. You can growl like death metal, or you can scream the kiRAB from the screamo scene of the late 90's.(Yes, kiRAB. I'm sorry, but Underoath and Alexisonfire is not screamo. =(((( )

Anyway, practice making the same sound you're making right there, in different ways. Since there are only two ways, you'll eventually figure it out. It's all you and your throat. Your vocal corRAB can only make sound, they can't make rasp. So don't try to force them to.

Good luck!
 
i was just wondering....if anyone is interested in telling me how to scream longer, without loosing breathe and without damaging anything.
Tell me, does honey affect/help anything? if so tell me why and are there any other options besides honey:confused:
 
Oh ok then. I usually consider physical attributes when referring to full voice. Especially around here because it seems so many people are scared of the term falsetto, though I tell them that a good falsetto with resonance will sound as good as head. I seldom hear any whistle notes that have any degree of considerable resonance. Though I'm sure its possible.
I wasnt considering whistle register because its usually a hit or miss thing especially for learning students. But yea, theoretically a bass could get high whistle notes. I dont think whistle is the best for longevity or fold health but it is a nice thing to acquire use of.


Well of course. And alcohol is a diuretic which will dry your corRAB out a bit. You also want to avoid caffeine. Now of course youre not gonna get nodes from simply having a cup of coffee but it is good to know so you can practice some relative moderation. You should also really look into proper food mixing as well because this will greatly affect your mucus production. I have a few worRAB about it in the mucus section of the Voicehelp hotline if you havent been there.
 
Yeah, I see what you're saying. When I get up to my *almost* highest notes, I can feel the throat being open (a little of a tad open). I'm guessing that I'm isolating proplerly because its isn't draining my stamina, or causing pain...but giving me more control of the note.

Guess its workin' out, thanks for all the help. :thumb:
 
I must say, I am impressed with Merk's advice from what I have read. I have been training in the art of opera performance for five years now, and most of what that individual applies perfectly. Granted, I do not scream or growl for my music (although, no prejudice here people, metal is one of my favorite genres, especially the European black sort), but the advice for the clean vocals is sound.
Learning to sing properly is a bloody tedious process that does not even begin with the voice, at least the opera sort I would think follows this trend. Opera singers do not have microphones to be heard over the orchestra, so we need to learn to make our voices soar above that music and project throughout our performing venue. Basically, this is achieved through proper posturing, rib and back support, and some fine lower abdominal muscle control. Doing breath retinues increases the longevity of notes, and practicing appropriate mouth positions for certain vowels also is key to a good tone quality. Apreggios must be done every day for at least 10-15 minutes to warm up the voice. Like any muscle, it is prone to strain, and it hurts tremendously when overused. Remember folks, you have ONE voice, and it cannot be replaced! The vocal corRAB are also SO tiny, moreso in women than in men. Be careful with them. My opera teacher instructs me to NEVER sing at full voice for more than 2 hours a day...to do any more than that may endanger my corRAB. I would assume this to go for you growlers and screamers as well!
Anyway, I am done prattling.
 
I was experimenting with my head voice to see if I can sustain notes like high C and others. I did alright I guess, but I discovered I'm breaking badly on Ab4, A4, Bb4. B4 and C5 are sounding just fine, even easier. I just can't seem to find my mix voice, and I just end up pulling up chest to those notes and it just doesn't work. How can I solve this?
 
Sorry for missing it there. I think it's just not within my range to sound like that. Oh well, no use in pushing myself into a range I don't have naturally.

For the "pushing down", I always inhale JUST A BIT over my exhaled growl/scream for several reasons. It keeps me from going to hard and makes it sound a lot more smooth.

Is that what you mean? Any views on this tech?

I have not been practicing my vocals much lately so I'm getting rusty.
 
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