The Nostalgic Theory, Appeal versus Quality.

T

tonywrich

New member
I have seen a few posts around rabroad, that intrigue me. They usually sound something like this.

"These new cartoons suck, the nineties toons rule!"

Okay, that's the idea. Here's the usual response

"No, you are just nostalgic, today's toons are just the same as yesteryear's, move on with your life please."

Hmmm, compelling argument, but it leaves alot to be desired. Have we considered other possible reasons the person feels this way? Not with the answer given. This leads to my theory which I call the "Appeal versus Quality principle."

My basic theory here, is that the quality of, let's just say cartoons for the sake of arguments, is indeed, not a subjective adjective as some people may believe. However, appeal is.

Definition of appeal as according to Google



  • attract: be attractive to; "The idea of a vacation appeals to me"; "The beautiful garden attracted many people"
  • attractiveness that interests or pleases or stimulates; "his smile was part of his appeal to her

Definition of Quality as according to Google


  • an essential and distinguishing attribute of something or someone; "the quality of mercy is not strained"--Shakespeare
  • a degree or grade of excellence or worth; "the quality of students has risen"; "an executive of low caliber"
  • a characteristic property that defines the apparent individual nature of something; "each town has a quality all its own"; "the radical character of our demands"
One may argue that both are subjective, but I disagree. In the case of network toons, many factors go into its creation. The pitch, the sale, the production. Production can be heavily censored by the network. When said network changes specific values in a show, such as art design, and script, it is changed from what the original creator has intended. This, I feel, seems to be a problem nowadays. The networks will not allow for true creative freedom. I'm not saying it isn't out there, I'm saying that we can't see it's true potential. Drop in quality.

When people who we call nostalgic make claims like that, let's give them more of a chance, and consider where they're are coming from.

Now appeal, everyone's is different. Therefore, one person may find appeal in, let's say Johnny Test, while may not, that is given. When these "nostalgic people" make these claims, they compare the quality, but do not consider the appeal.


My explanations and thoughts are a little jumbled, so I'd like to see other people's thoughts and ideas, to further complete mine. Mutual arguments are welcome, as are examples. STAY ON TOPIC NO FLAME WARS. If a mod sees potential flame wars, please close thread. Thank you.
 
I don't have a problem with nostalgia. It's nice to look back at what was from time to time. I only take issue with nostalgia when people use it to deify a certain era and when doing so roadblocks one's capacity for logic and open-mindedness.

The latter is a syndrome which I call "retro-snobbery", the belief that everything from a particular era of the past (usually the cartoons that one grew up with) are infinitely and objectively superior to the cartoons of any other era. Now, I don't fault people for having a favorite era for animation; if a certain decade or genre appeals to you more than any other, then that's cool. everyone is entitled to their opinions and all that. But having a favorite era doesn't mean that the cartoons from all other eras are automatically bad or not worth even giving a chance, nor does it mean that every cartoon from your personal favorite decade was golden, because neither of those notions are correct. Every decade has it's share of diamonds and duds. Yesterday's toons, like today's, have produced a fair amount of crap as well as gems.

I have my share or favorites and non-favorites just like everyone else, but I personally try to judge shows on an individual case-by-case basis rather than generalize by saying, "All of these shows suck! The cartoons from this time are infinitely better and always will be!".
 
Every era has it's good, and it's bad. Simple as that.

"Gargoyles" and "Batman" are both quality shows, and they came from the nineties, at about the same time. But not everything from the nineties was good. There was a ton of cartoons that were, quite frankly, crap. I'm not going to name them, because that is my opinion, and I'm sure some of those shows have fans.

Right now, there is gold and there is crap. Am I watching less cartoons now than I did in the eighties and nineties? Yes. But, in general, I am watching far less television. But "Spectacular Spider-Man" and "Avatar: The Last Airbender" turned out to be gold. "Avengers" is fun so far, not gold, but fun. "Young Justice" looks good. We'll see.

As for the eighties, well, I enjoy "The Real Ghostbusters." At least I enjoy them when J. Michael Straczynski was running the show. And I have quite a bit of affection for Generation One "Transformers" even though I know that the show was largely crap.
 
Interesting, I see. Retro Snobbery. Not every era is pure gold. I know of a few nineties toons that were rather dull. But there definately were some good ones. As there are good shows today. The problem I have, Is that I haven't seen a show in a while that was absolute genius. And a show like that is hard to come by in general.

One show I love, Animaniacs, is not a show I grew up with. I discovered that show in January of this year, and fell in love with it. It made me discover several other shows of almost the same calibr from that era. It's the era people refer to as the Silverage. At the same time, I have found many shows from the same era that were forgettable to say the least.
 
It's so odd how often we agree on various subjects. There is a lot of really great stuff on now like Phenias and Ferb,Venture Bros., Batman:Brave & the Bold and The Avengers:Earth's Mightest Heroes; and a lot of stuff that I find as crap.

There are beloved cartoons from the 80's that while I have fond memories of them they have not aged as well as others, particularly Voltron and Inspector Gadget, both shows I loved as a child and they both bore me greatly as a 30 year old adult on the other hand Real Ghostbusters and Ducktales are still as good as when I was a child. And there are the "big guns" of the 80's shows like Transformers:Generation 1, GI JOE:A Real American Hero, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and He-Man & the Masters of the Universe, that really depend on who was writing the episode at the time and how much effort they put into it.

Looking at the 90's during my teenage years, Gargoyles, Batman:TAS, Animaniacs and Where on Earth is Carmen Sandiago? are still as brilliant to me as the first time I watched them. And then there are shows like Ren & Stimpy that I loved, but don't really appeal to me know a days.

We grow up and our tastes change some things always appeal to us and some simply don't.
 
Heck even the 70s has Super Friends which is so bad that it's good, and for arguably a more quality program, Star Trek The Animated Series.
 
Hurm, that seems more like commentators on video and social-networking sites rather than here. The tone at these forums from what I've seen so far is fairly respectful.

Granted, I deal with those sorts of exclamations often with friends, but that's basically because they just don't have enough knowledge of, or accessibility, to modern series.

Nostalgia, from what I have seen, is essential for lifting one's spirits and can lead to colorful conversations with companions. Whether or not said program's quality still holds up to this day, the feeling of nostalgia nevertheless makes a person feel slightly upbeat.

Perhaps I've contradicted myself somewhere.
 
I've never seen it put as bluntly, but I've felt that it is often implied around here. I like your idea on nostalgia. I was born in the nineties, so I experience nostalgia differently. People who were born in the eighties, probably find themselves often discouraged when feeling nostalgia. Many of those eighties toons are so bland. The worst part of then is the animation, and trust me, it wasn't the budget.
 
I agree with this. There are some really great shows out there today. I admit I am biased to shows from the nineties a little bit, but I do my best to give everything a far try.
 
Shows in different eras were made differently, so of course there are going to be those who just plain prefer the approach those eras had in the making of their shows. Of course not every decade is swimming with classics, but usually when the comparison between decades is made it is (hopefully) comparing the best of what they have to offer the viewer.

It isn't always nostalgia (though there are always cases where it is), sometimes the viewer may just prefer the way things were done and executed in that specific era.

Sometimes it really is just a taste issue.
 
It's also important to consider the fact that cartoons are an ever-evolving form of entertainment. Fans of cartoons in the 90's (myself included) see it as a great decade for animation simply because of the grounds it gained, including the birth of Nick Toons and Cartoon Network. Moving cartoons beyond the Saturday morning and after school time slots created more diversity and a wider appeal in programming.
 
But, I don't see much expirimentation any more. The fact that networks and studios won't allow for certain, fuller ways of drawing hampers that right there. It makes me mad.
 
I think it's fair to say that in terms of American made television cartoons, the 90's objectively had greater variation compared to today. However, that is not the same as saying that 90's cartoons were generally better than todays cartoons (which is a completely subjective opinion).
 
Nostalgia is great and all, but those who are over nostalgic seem to lean to heavily on it's shoulders and miss what is going on around them as far as today's product goes. I love revisiting old video games, movies, cartoons and other media, but I don't let it blind me to what's going on at the moment because the notion of "they don't make em' like they used to" does not apply to everything. I usually revisit stuff from my childhood once or twice a year and then spend the rest of my time focusing on the here and now because eventually the "here and now" will become the stuff of yesterday and I will want to look back fondly on it equally as much as the stuff I loved when I was a kid.
 
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