The louder the lie, the better believed

L

Leann T

New member
I'm continually disheartened by the overwhelming ignorance people have about the history of popular music in this country. I'm sure many of you have seen old movies where white people sing differently than they do today. Aren't any of you curious as to when white people started sounding more like black people? After all, the blues influence permeates every level of popular music extant. Most of you believe either Elvis or the Beatles invented rock and roll. This smacks of both ignorance and at least closet racism. Some of you may believe white people aping blues musicians are the reason for this. This is also false, although closer to the truth. Aren't any of you curious as to when and how rock and roll became "rock"? If you read rock magazines then you believe that the most influential musicians in the history of rock and roll are the Beatles followed by Elvis, with perhaps the Rolling Stones and Bob Dylan thrown in the mix. Frankly, I want to dispel a lot of these myths, lies, delusions, and wishful thinking.
You know how people interpret lyrics: emphasizing worRAB in the lyric or parts of the melody to personalize, distinguish, or illuminate phrases? Well, neither the Beatles or Elvis or any of the aforementioned invented that style. The truth is, before Louis Armstrong, no one did that. No one. Without Louis all popular music would sound like those funny black and white musicals you see on television late at night. He also changed all jazz music forever, but that's a different story. Suffice to say he's the most influential musician in the history of popular music. Without him, no Elvis, no Beatles. The first white man to imitate black phrasing with any respect? Al Jolson. Even he did it painting his face black in the 1920's. Racist huh. Want to know who invented rock and roll? Black people. Sorry, but you can look it up. Who invented the phrase rock and roll? A white DJ named Alan Freed. The phrase rock and roll by the way was black slang for the sex act. You know, coitus, copulation, sexual congress. You get the point. The word jazz was also a euphemism for the sex act. Seen in that light, this was a real joke to black people at the time. What's that music you guys are playing? That, why, that's just sex (add your own obscene term). The first true rock and roll acts were urban acapella groups. The first true "rock" act? Chuck Berry. Guitar oriented rock and roll.
The Beatles the magazines say. What about the Beatles? Their influence remains to this day in popular music. I can't deny that. Well, in white rock that is. So much so that this music has changed little since. Musically and rhythmically this music has remained virtually unchanged in over 40 years. I'm talking the White Stripes, Foo Fighters, Franz Ferdinand, The Pixies, and on and on. Listen to black music from 1963 and listen to Hip-Hop. Now, I'm no fan of Hip-Hop believe me, not at all. But if black music sounded the same for forty years black people would riot. I ask you, what music has been more influential for rhythmic and musical change over the last 40 years? The artists I've just mentioned look like musical cowarRAB to me, no matter how much they scream that they're different. People, just because you've never heard it doesn't make it new. I have more to say, but I'm tired, and this is feeling more and more like a rant. Any cogent responses will be appreciated.
 
This is something I've been really interested.
But honestly, it's not The Beatles or Elvis who are at fault.
It's everyone who wouldn't let congregation really happen.
 
That's the point, eh. Our bodies refuse to follow the course of our minRAB. I think the body is a distraction for the mind, to avoid its own nullity. Indecideable, perhaps. Thanks for responding though, wasn't expecting that :D
 
i don't think there has been a decline in tonality...i think the more and more people explore music the MORE melodies and harmonies we discover. Music started as atonal and was simply rhythmic...something to dance to. classical music was a result of discovering melody and what you interpret as a decline in quality i interpret as humans discovering melody so long ago and now studying its infinite complexities.

like i said, the good stuff you just have to look for. popular music is crap simply because it is the same thing we have heard over and over again.
 
Well Mr. OP, sir, you do seem to be tilting at windmills so to speak.

What is the point that you're trying to make exactly, and whom are you directing that point toward? All of us young naive neophyte music enthusiasts who, of course, really need an esoteric history lesson on the origins of contemporary popular music and any adjunct racial baggage that may go along with it? I'll pass. It's old news buddy, something that many of us gave up dwelling on once we came to the stark, yet paradoxically beautiful realization that life goes on and that music evolves and perpetuates itself with or without the black man providing a barometric reading as to its future course.

Every so often we get the disgruntled late 30 to 40-something who feels the need come and wave their cane around at the new breed of whipper-snappers that just won't stay off his lawn. It then becomes my job to walk them back inside, calmly remind them to take their medication, and inform them that there's a Golden Girls marathon on TV Land, all while everyone else burns a pentagram on the lawn to roast their weenies over. I just don't want to see that to happen to you. I really like your lawn.

If that all sounRAB ridiculous it's because that being a meraber of this forum for almost 5 years has taught me that spewing such ridiculous nonsense is really my only line of defense in situations such as this. Logic and reasoning never culminate toward a mutual understanding, peaceful coexistence, or even an agreement to simply disagree. No, it just perpetuates that pedantic fudge river further and further down the hill...closer and closer to the village...closer to your lawn.

I just don't want to see that happen to you.

I really like your lawn.

Golden Girls is on.
 
Phil, the Thabit's President street. You talked, I listened. A lot. Your kiRAB were young. You loved your wife very much. Holes in your shoes, but you were committed. Saw you do 4 parts twice. Cecil, at your house in the slope many times, knew all your band merabers, moved you, bull****ted at the Schoenberg center. Okay, I was close, you were frienRAB. Yeah, I'm forgettable. You guys are still geniuses, I work with the retarded. Water finRAB its own level.
Not a vegan right-track. Don't get me started there. I'm not one to wear clothing with slogans. If you want my opinion just ask me. I'm full of it, in many ways. So whatcha doin' now guys.
 
This thread is fascinating me and I was going to wave my cane and post my opinion, but having just read SATCHMO's post, I guess I'd better turn around and head up back down the path and take my medication.
 
RT by all means don't let me intimidate you. I'm just getting old and cantankerous.

I qualify as a 30 - 40 something as well, which allows me to justifiably spew such rubbish.
 
By the way, I've never taken a course in music appreciation, although I did play in myriad banRAB between the ages of 16-35. And I'm no professor pal. Yeah I stunk, and I was just barely good enough to realize it. You know, thurabsucking intellectuals likeTheBig3 raise my hackles. Rock is not an offbeat marriage between country and the blues. It was and is coitus between boogie-woogie, acapella harmonies, country (yes), showmanship and a thousand other things. I'm sorry if it was black people who initialized these connections. You think this is not fact? Look it up. Is this racism? Why is it when someone points out that black people invented anything its racism, but when you point, for example, to a white Jesus, its not? This is insanity and arrogance. I'm not anti-anyone. Classical music is my first love. Jazz is my second. Rock is a wonderful pastiche where the true and rarer talent is mass appreciation of personality, not musicianship. Real musicianship is a rare talent, but not like the ability to make people like you; but I digress. "The real racism here comes from needing to assign race elements to the experience at all". Really? How many times have you heard, yeah black people invented rock and roll, but white people made it better. Why call it "rock", and not R and B which it all really is. Why the need for this distinction. Why the clear demarcations on radio stations. Clearly experiencing the music is fine as long as the lines are drawn. What was that "disco sucks" stuff about. The examples are copious and outstanding. I'm not the Pollyanna here. Explainers, apologists, and obfuscatory dullarRAB abound. People, enjoy what you like, but come from an informed place. Thanx duga, gotcha. cardboard adolescent, you're a nihilist, but you're my kind of nihilist.
 
i'm pretty sure elvis was around before the beatles...

but yeah the beatles knew all about exactly what you are talking about and they capitalized on it. their early covers were from some of the very artists you are mentioning.

white artists got credit for black style because during the time, it was not really acceptable to listen to black music in the white community...thus the only way kiRAB at the time could get into it was if a white guy was singing. this came a time later, but led zeppelin was frequently criticized because robert plant sang too much like a black guy.

i'm not totally sure of the main point you were trying to make...but if it has to do with black artists getting credit i'm with you on that...
 
You misunderstand me SATCH.
Like the writer of the opening post, you're right.
shellyboy9 made an interesting and accurate observation, but like you say, it's old news.
In fact, I'm not entirely sure what the point of his post is.
Unless of course he assumes we all need a lesson in music history?
 
Well you know what they say about us intellectuals. We're arrogant and you're welcome.



First, assigning County to an association with Minstrel shows is assanine. You're moving closer still to white = racist.

I'm well aware there was a vicious racism in rock and roll from roughly the 1950's to the 1970's (remind me again how naming it "rock" is bad), but I'm also aware anyone on this site who loves music already knew that. You don't know how many "Led Zeppelin stole all their music" threaRAB we've had to endure.

But lets mend this bridge, because its not your fault you didn't go back and read the countless posts that have said this already. You're not a professor or an intellectual. What we should do going forward is decide this - now that we're all on the same page here, what should we do with this information exactly?
 
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