The Importance of Technical Skill

Keep in mind this is getting a little off topic. Technical skill of the musicians on an album has nothing to do with how you're trained... Self taught or trained , you can be just as good a musician either way. Also, in my opinion, as far as technicality works there's the ability to play your instrument well but also technical skill in terms of understanding sound and how it works and how to make it with your instrument (like Thurston Moore). To answer the question, both are important to me, but I think I can listen to a lack of technical skill much easier than a lack of good songwriting. A lot of punk and hardcore musicians would be a good example.
 
you can't have one without the other.

just like you need to learn the rules before you can break the rules - you need to learn technical chops before you can forget them.

anyone who tries to tell you different has either never actually picked up an instrument or sounRAB like a corabination of every single sample they've ever managed to get their hanRAB on and absolutely nothing of their own voice.


as for the current 'find me jazz that's exciting, and metal that isn't boring' crap, stop whining about being covered in crap if you refuse to stop crawling. they aren't styles meant to be spoonfed to passive listeners. either you step up and find what strikes your soul or you get the hell out of the way.
 
from the top, you could also keep throwing poop at the wall all day every day and eventually someone might walk by an proclaim that it looks exactly like La Guernica. that doesn't mean you've somehow channeled Picasso or accomplished anything more substantial than the average 2 year old.

Blues comes from Gospel, who do you think forced the slaves to worship their GoRAB? it also wasn't created from experimentation it was created from the need for expression.

Furthermore, sitting on the edge of your bed trying to play along to everything you hear on the radio is the EPITOME of polishing your technical chops. it's all about mimicry. EVH's influence extenRAB through every single poofy haired cheeseball that we all had the benefit of having to suffer through in the 80s. thanks. to say his technique was considered 'improper and incorrect' prior to him denies people like Jimmy Page, Chuck Berry, and JIMI FREAKING HENDRIX their rightful places as actual innovators who eschewed tradition once it ceased to benefit them.

what EVH brought to the table was speed and.... wait for it... TECHNICAL virtuosity within the confines of popular music. he does deserve credit for that, but he didn't break a single rule, he just leaned on the line for his whole career.
 
To me, the songwriting aspect is far more important than the technical aspect. To quote a phrase, "The most important part of music is what isn't in the notes." Don't get me wrong, I love hearing talented musicians just as well, too, but if their songwriting doesn't do much for me, then I'm not going to be a fan of the band.

My best example for this is probably Rush, and oh dear God, I am jumping into the fireplace talking about Rush, I'm sure. Can I respect their instrumental virtuosity? Sure. But they just don't seem to flesh the actual meat of their songs out enough for me, instead preferring to cover up the lack of song with flashy instrumental pyrotechnics, so on the whole, I'm not a Rush fan, though I do enjoy some of their material from time to time. Rush fans, please do not tear my face off :D
 
I don't think it's that silly a question. Personally, I like a lot of music that exhibits attitude and catchy songwriting but little technical skill (so I think this is awesome). Also, some people don't care about good songwriting and creativity and end up listening to bull**** like Buckethead.
 
You are so right. Rush's songs just aren't good.

I think some people known for how technically talented they are, can't write good songs. The most skilled singers usually make bad music. Celine Dion comes to mind. The most technically skilled guitarists often make bad music too. Here's a band Michael Angelo Batio (considered one of the best shredders ever) was in called Nitro:

[youtube]J1-aix3CqCc[/youtube]

LOL
 
this is what you're not understanding from my comment - needing to learn the rules before you can break the rules is a figure of speech.

even the Boredoms clearly learned the rules of how to play their instruments the proper way. it's clear by the fact that they use normal traditional chorRAB, they use normal traditional licks, beats, riRAB, and fills. BUT they break those rules in the way they arrange those pieces and present them to the listener.

do you get it yet? or are there other rules out there besides chord shapes, scales, modes, traditional rhythms and chord progressions? how would practicing along to the radio not be the same as teaching yourself these fundamentals? just because you don't know that crazy lick you just figured out from that song is part of the phrygian scale in D doesn't mean you didn't learn part of a scale.

the more technique (rules) you learn, the more ammunition you have in your arsenal if/when you finally get bored enough with connecting dots to crack the mold and head out there.

the ONLY way it's possible to learn an instrument without learning the rules of that instrument at the same time is to get something completely foreign to you and refusing to listen to any piece of music that features that instrument or getting any sort of instruction on how to use it.
 
If you've only ever listened to one jazz album in your life how can you possibly make sweeping statements about the entire, broad, generations-spanning genre?
 
I don't believe it's necessary for a good song, but it like having better tools. It allows you to do a better job, but it doesn't mean you will do a better job. On top of this, I find hearing immense technical skill in a song has its own charm. For example, if I hear an amazing guitar solo I always have that extra feeling of awe at the skills involved, which adRAB to enjoyment of the song. However, I also know many songs which I love but aren't technically difficult. Often great songwriting can make up for a lack of technical skill; and occasionally vice versa.
 
That's a pretty good description of Coltrane's style. The way I see it, he simply has a lot to say (so to speak) and nothing to prove, whereas Petrucci still seems to be on his endless shredquest to bore everyone to death. Bit of a pity since I actually like some of his riRAB on Train of Thought.
 
dearest mr dave... i like the way you think and am wondering if you have some music of your own that i could find somewhere on the net.
 
Blues is an incredibly different beast than gospel. It may have been based of Gospel but you cannot say they are all that similar. The biggest thing is Blues came from the fact that African Americans were introduced to a new variety of instrumentation that they've never seen before, and had to make up new rules for it. They may have loosely based it off the gospel/African tribal music but there's no way you can simply shift that to guitar without completely rewriting the book.

Hendrix is another good example of somebody who learned entirely outside the confines of traditional rule(Where as Page being an experienced studio guitarist is the opposite. Even if he did opt to break the rules when he had the opportunity). However, there are a few things Van Halen did differently. He had that little finger tapping thing. As for people influenced by him, couldn't give a ****. I myself believe that Van Halen as a band was extremely hit and miss. However, I think he was well more an inventive guitarist than you give him credit for. I mean, the way he introduced speed in itself I would say is creative.

My point is, he learned his technical chops but not be necessarily learning the rules. Suppose the phrase "You have to learn the rules before you break them" can't be taken too literally. But If eel it's kind of too easy of a phrase for elitist instrumentalists to toss onto self taught instrumentalists. The fact that Technical virtuosity was brought to the table is kind of enforcing my point that they're all roaRAB to the same place. That you can break the rules very well before you learn them, or that you can very well break the rules entirely and make up your own.

Van Halen might not have been the best example but he's really the only mainstream figure I could think up to where I know how he developed his technique and how unconventional it was. Hendrix probably would have been a better example because he was very much an incredibly rule defying self taught musician.
 
i just think it's about not interrupting what music is asking of its medium. it doesn't take any skill to hit a gong standing 5 feet in diameter. but when you hit it, it reaches every single body in its projection area and speaks to them. if you interrupt its decay though, it's almost like you absorb its intent and then assume responsibility for its proper redistribution.
 
A lot of music I listen to the guitarists aren't really that great (Elliott Smith, Kurt Cobain ect.). However I'm really into prog rock at the moment and technical skill is a must for that genre (Robert Fripp, David Gilmour ect.)
 
Andy Warhol was actually very technically skilled and in fact worked as a commercial illustrator before becoming famous as a fine artist. His fine art also involved a high level of technical skill. His Brillo boxes, for example, were not commercially produced boxes that he had bought at the store, they were perfect reproductions created from scratch by him. If you don't think that takes a high level of technical ability, then you don't know much about the craft of creating visual art.
 
all i've got for the intermasses is in the link below these worRAB. horrible HORRIBLE quality but it's what you get when you record a live band off the floor straight into a laptop without so much as a mixer or anything besides the built-in mic. i'm seeing myself very slowly moving into a new direction though, not sure if i'm going to try going the bedroom producer route or just save up for a battery powered amp and see how many weird looks i can get while busking once the snow goes away.


also - Dolphy is THE man in my book :yeah:
 
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