The deal about grass hay?

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Why is everyone on this trendy grass hay thing? There are minimal to no nutrients in grass hay and recent studies at UC Davis Vet school point to the acidic nature of grass hay as a cause for stomach ulcers. Why would anyone feed an athlete (the horse) a diet so devoid of protein? The claim that grain and alfalfa and other types of hay make their horse "hot" is insane. Nutrient deficiency is not a replacement for proper training and education. Can someone please tell me where this crazy trend originates? Feed companies so you buy more supplements?Interesting the hostility from some of you. I'm not talking about grass in the field, the horse's natural feed. I do have over 50 years of experience breeding training and caring for horses and have fed primarily alfalfa and oat hay plus grain supplements. My horses are healthy, great weight, very fit and never have "issues" . We have operated a facility for over 30 years and this is where the questions arise when people bring their horses in and want to feed ONLY grass hay?? And we have first hand experience with the grass hay/ulcer thing. Off the grass, onto Alfalfa and supplements and ulcers disappeared. Happy horses. Interesting responses.Everyone's answers were quite interesting. I do have my hay tested and have our rations are balanced by an outstanding equine nutritionist (with an advanced degree). We are a training facility and we don't "board", some of the new clients don't appreciate that their horses need more than grass hay. (in the wild there is grass, weeds and other foliage) I was just wondering where this all comes from as our nutritionist does not agree with the "grass only" feed plan. thanks for all your answers
 
I am in South Florida. At my barn we feed coastal bermuda grass hay, but we do not have "athletes". It is a roughage supplement, basically, since the grass is very pathetic this time of year. We do not have ulcers and have actually found that our horses are getting fat on this hay alone.
 
Because, some horses simply cannot handle the richness of alfalfa. Have you ever heard of that? Hmmmm?? It's not a matter of them getting hot- it's a matter of them getting sick. A horse with severe founder, or laminitis, could be seriously set back by having just a bit of alfalfa. I've seen it.And why do you feel that they have to have something jam-packed with nutrients and such? Horses were meant to graze all day. They eat alot of hay, or grass. Ideally, they are eating something at almost all times of day. So, could they eat this much alfalfa and not get sick? But if this is grass hay, it is fine. And might I remind you that, at pasture and in the wild, what horses eat, primarily, is grass? We don't put them on fields of alfalfa! Such a diet would actually prolly lead to founder with time.I feed grass. My horse breaks out in hives if he has much alfalfa. A teensy bit he can handle. 1/3 or more of his hay ration? No. So, are you going to tell me that I am depriving my horse and harming him by not feeding what he gets an allegic reaction to? Hmm? He is perfectly healthy, in great shape, and keeping weight on fine, which is great considering he is an 18 year old TB. Athough I must say.....Why the personal beef against grass hay? It's not like people are forcing you to feed it. It's other people's choice- a personal choice, highly specialized based on their horse's own needs. Who are you to critizise situations you have no knowledge of? And what I heard about the stomach ulcers is that the alfalfa can prevent them, or treat them. But that doesnt mean that grass causes them. It just means that grass doesnt treat them.
 
Grass is a horse's natural source of forage. No, it's not naturally high in protein but this is because they are grazers and take in large amounts of grass over a long period of time. They are not made to take in small amount of high protein feeds. That is something that we humans have made them do when we have put them in stalls and taken them away from their natural grazing environments. If a horse is allowed to eat grass or grass hay all day, it provides more than adequate nutrition for a horse.The majority of horses these days aren't used hard enough to need the high amount of protein found in alfalfa hay anyway, that's why people prefer grass hay. It keeps their stomachs fuller for longer. It doesn't give them short bursts of energy here and there, which does, in fact make them "hot."Do a little research on horse nutrition and digestion before you go calling things "crazy" and "insane." It just makes you sound uneducated.
 
We use Winter Park grass hay here in Colorado and so far it's been just as good as alfalfa. Alfalfa did make my horses hot especially my colt but once we changed over to grass he was a different horse. They still are very healthy and shiny and am very happy with the grass hay.
 
My horse is such an easy keeper that he would only get a flake of alfalfa twice a day. He would be hungry all the time! By giving him grass hay (Brome, which is pretty darn good by the way!) and a small amount of low starch grain, and a pound of alfalfa pellets at 10 pm, he gets to have 3 flakes twice a day and feels much more satisfied.
 
I agree with you. I do not like grass hay, although I do feed it to my horses.I believe that horses are grazers and should be able to eat constantly. If you put 2 flakes of alalfa or even 3 flakes in then the horse will eat it all very quick.My horse is on a great diet. AM : 1/2 flake alfala on the ground, and 2 flakes grass in the feeder. noon- boiled flaxseed with his integrity, and joint supplements. PM: 1 flake alafalfa and if he has eaten all his grass then one more flake of alfalfa.For a horse to only or mostly have grass in their diet is very unhealthy, and owners should be educated on nutriton for horses!!
 
One rogue study. Geesh when will Vets and the rest of the medical science community learn how to do research???!?!??? (Sorry but I spent part of my teaching career teaching the medical community how to do proper research, Well I TRIED to anyway! -- Most never did get it.) And once again we have someone who is so busy finding support for their pet theories that they ignore all the evidence against them.First The protein a horse receives is primarily from the digestion of bacteria that help ferment the hay in the stomach.SecondAcid is not what causes ulcers.ThirdMost horses do not get enough roughage which is the prime culprit in ulcers. Grass hay is higher in roughage than others.FourthAnyone that knows beans about horses knows that grain and other high nutrient food does indeed cause some horses to become 'hot' just like a kid on too much sugar. Anyone who does not know this has no business with horses.FifthThe basis of the diet of every horse needs to be roughage of some type. Grass make good roughage and if you know about the varieties, soil and how to bale hay, can make a balanced feed all by itself. If not that can be easily supplemented with a lesser amount of alfalfa and or grain.SixthAnd let me be VERY clear on this. The old timers who spent 12 to 16 hours a day with the horses out in the fields or in the saddle, knew more about horses than the vast majority of horsemen today. And if they said something was so you could bet money they were right. So you need to get down off of your soap box before it caves in on you.FYII recently talked a person into switching from brome to native grass. I explained point blank that their pony's diarrhea was from too rich a feed. They said he only got hay. It took months to convince them but they finally tried a bale of the hay I suggested (at a fraction of the cost of their brome) The pony has not had diarrhea since.Another couple I know could not figure out why their horse was losing weight. Duh could it be that you fed straight alfalfa and straight 18% protein grain. It took nearly a month to convince them to cut out the grain and go with grass hay but they did and the filly started gaining weight back.ChippinCA I understand what you are talking about. Unfortunately you do not know what you do not and are choosing to advise people to take up a feeding routine that is ultimately unhealthy for their horse. All because you do not understand the biological aspects of your horse's digestive system. So tell me, in your 50 years of experience did you not learn anything, or did you misrepresent your experience? I am not suggesting strictly grass hay except for ponies which are adapted for a poorer diet. But to insist that the basic diet is alfalfa or some other high protein diet is bad advice. Period! Though many horses do well on such a diet, (especially in areas where alfalfa is the only hay available), it is known that horses are healthier where alfalfa is used as a supplement and not the food base.
 
Did you drink a protein shake today b/c it hasn't helped your education or training.... SORRY couldn't help myself! Alfalfa is not a natural source of feed for any horse and as a matter of fact neither is "grain" as we feed. We as humans have created THAT crazy trend, to feed more alfalfa with sweet rich bright green leaves and grain with more sweeteners and crazy processing and cause horses to have renal and urinary tract issues rather than just a measly ulcer! Horses can't actually digest things the way we humans expect them to be able to. Sugars (natural or manufactured) are next to impossible for horses to digest. Complications in digestion and/or deficiencies are common reason for these "hot" mannerisms, more so than improper training and education. Many, many lactating mares that I've known personally have been improperly fed a "high protein" diet and been diagnosed with kidney failure in later age. High protein is not the answer, proper management and monitor of your feed is the best way to feed your horse. It isn't the source but what is in the source that is what you need to feed!
 
Here is a list of several articles on the subject. These are all veterinary research, and worth the read. There are many more studies than these, so it may be a mistake to base your opinion on any one study. Note the dates of the research, as it spans some time. Also note that there are several pages to search.http://www.thehorse.com/Search.aspx?cx=001813077443207757262%3A-qbps-ljkta&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=grass+hay+for+ulcers&sa.x=37&sa.y=7#0Here is an exerpt from an article by a noted equine nutritionist, Karen Briggs, regarding the building blocks of protein, called amino acids..................."Of all the components of your horse's diet, protein is probably the most misunderstood. Protein's real role is not to act as an energy source for performance, but to provide amino acids, the building blocks for growth and repair of bones, muscles, and soft tissues. Amino acids are involved in virtually all of the horse's vital processes. They are essential to the synthesis and the release of hormones, the synthesis of neurotransmitters and enzymes, and the regulation of sleep, appetite, and blood pressure, to name just a few functions. But primarily, amino acids are needed for the formation and repair of muscle tissue, bone, and other soft tissues throughout the body. Growing horses which are "building" new tissues as they mature, and horses being used for breeding, have a higher protein requirement than do mature horses being used for pleasure or performance. Whether working or idle, the protein needs of most mature horses are surprisingly small (between 8% and 11% crude protein in the overall diet, as opposed to 12% to 16% for a young, growing horse or lactating broodmare). Proteins are "chains" made up of various combinations of the 22 amino acids that exist in nature. The position and number of the amino acids in a single protein make up its "amino acid profile." When a horse ingests protein, the chain of amino acids is broken up in the digestive tract by enzymes and acids, and the individual amino acids are absorbed through the wall of the small intestine and into the bloodstream via the liver. From there, they travel to the sites where they are most needed. Although amino acids are absorbed from the small intestine in a format relatively unchanged from their original chemical composition, the horse's body does have the ability to change some amino acids into different formats as the need exists, a process that occurs in the liver. You must remember, however, that the horse's body does not have the ability to create all the amino acids it needs. Some amino acids only can be synthesized by microorganisms or green plants; these are called the "essential" amino acids, and they must be obtained by the horse from his environment. ("Non-essential" amino acids are those the horse can synthesize himself.) A good-quality protein source is a food that provides a sufficient amount of essential amino acids, particularly the amino acids lysine and methionine. Lysine is often called the "first limiting" amino acid, meaning that if insufficient quantities of lysine are present, then the horse's body will have difficulty utilizing any of the other amino acids. Methionine is second in line. The best source of high-lysine protein for foals is milk protein; for adult horses, a plant source such as soybean meal is the best way to go. (Cottonseed meal and linseed meal, two other common protein sources used in horse feeds, have far less lysine and thus aren't considered to be as high in quality as soybean meal.) That said, the amino acid profile of a feed is more important to a young, growing horse than to a mature one; adult horses are far less sensitive to differences in protein quality. Lysine and methionine often are deficient in the ingredients that make up normal horse feeds, but since they can be synthesized inexpensively, it's routine for feed companies to add these to improve the overall amino acid profile. (Not all amino acids can be easily synthesized, however.) Can protein serve as an energy source? Yes, but metabolically, it's an expensive process, producing three to six times more body heat than the breakdown of carbohydrates or fats, and yielding considerably less energy. The heating factor might be beneficial in a cold environment, but it can contribute to excessive sweating and possible heat exhaustion during hard work, especially in a warmer climate. Since protein is one of the more expensive ingredients in a feed, it's impractical to feed higher levels of protein in search of a performance advantage. Carbohydrates and fats are better energy sources (more on them in a minute). Feeding more protein than is needed is false economy for other reasons, too. Any protein that is not used immediately by the horse's system is converted to ammonia and urea molecules, which are excreted in the urine. This leads to increased water intake, increased urination, and a noticeably strong ammonia smell in the stall."
 
Umm wow. Alfalfa is NOT made for horses in large quantities. It causes colic, horse to become hot and can make them VERY sick. Grass is what horses are MADE to eat. I personally keep my horses in pasture and when there is enough grass thats ALL my horses get to eat. And they are healthier. Horses don't need all this high protein crap we feed them. Alfalfa is hard to digest and doesn't do very much good for them.Geez.
 
I have to say I'm amazed that you'd ask your question here without first checking with your vet or knowledgeable hay grower and have them provide you with correct answers to your question. Alfalfa hay isn't something that everyone feeds....there are those individuals that feel that alfalfa is too "hot" and hard on a horses' kidneys....there are other individuals who feed it only while showing for the bloom that it puts on their show horses, both haircoats and body condition. Then again there are those who feed it to their backyard horses thinking that all of that protein and carbs won't hurt their horses without taking into consideration that they may have a horse that is insulin resistant. I've experienced "ulcers" on one of my horses and the cause WASN'T grass hay. Show stress, training stress and stress from boarding can create an ulcer in a horse very quickly. You'd be hard pressed to prove it came exclusively from grass hay. Feral horses subsist on a meager diet of forage grasses in the wild that are coarse and not known for palatability and yet they thrive on it. Horses stomachs are NOT designed to exist on fancier hays, or hays of high protein...hence the popularity of grass hay. If you doubt what I'm saying then have your grass hay tested for protein content vs alfalfa hay. Which would have a higher protein content? Horses do well on a 11 to 14 percent protein content which grass hay provides....alfalfa can be over 20 percent protein. There isn't any "crazyness" here....take the time to research hays. Excellent Timothy hay is re known in it's popularity as the preferred feed for race horses....ask any TB trainer what their preference is on hay. I'm including a link from "The Horse" a magazine written by vets for vets on the subject of grass hay....... http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=396http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=11085http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=2153I won't feed alfalfa if I don't have a horse in training or one that's out in the show pen. I'm not a bit surprised that some people won't feed alfalfa.....we have just excellent grass hay grown in our area by hay growers that know how to grow and culture hay and when to cut it. It is a science. Our grass hay that is grown here is shipped to race tracks up and down the west coast. It is in high demand. All of the places that I ever boarded or had a horse in training came with the option of feeding grass hay....all of the hays fed were of the very best quality.If you have a barn full of boarders in these economic times count yourself lucky, particularly if you only offer one kind of hay. A lot of boarders aren't stupid and have their preferences on hay and processed feeds.Edit: You may have your own nutritionist but I'll follow the word of a consortium of vets over a single person any day.
 
Horses need to eat at least 2 % of their body weight in hay and if the horse is an easy keeper - he might not be able to eat alfalfa hay without getting fat. A fat horse can be a mineral deficient horse - however.Also, in Indiana, where the winters are very cold, the hay provides heat - so feeding more of it provides more heat.I personally don't have problems with alfalfa hay - except for growing foals. At that point, it is very important that they receive the correct mineral balance. In Indiana, Alfalfa is 6 to 1 in calcium to phosphorus ratio, That kind of imbalance can lead to developmental osteo disease (DOD). However, grass hay in Indiana typically has a 1 to 2 calcium to phosporus ratio - so one still needs to supplement ALL horses.I disagree with the idea that grass hay can cause ulcers - feeding low volumes of hay is the most likely culprit of ulcers. However, the calcium in alfalfa DOES reduce the risk of ulcers - as long as the horse isn't standing for long periods of time without roughage. So, I would say feeding a horse 2 flakes of alfalfa ALL DAY long total compared to feeding a horse 2 flakes of grass hay ALL DAY long total might yield ulcers in the grass over alfalfa.I don't agree that alfalfa or protein makes a horse hot. Just like 'corn' is not a heating food for horses for winter.I don't agree with the 'grass only', 'grass hay only' or 'alfalfa only' plan.MY peeve with alfalfa hay is that growers around here raise 'mixed' hay. The same bale of hay can be 20% alfalfa or 50% alfalfa - depending on what the buyer is looking for! I personally buy straight alfalfa and straight orchard/brome grass hay. I feed a 12 % high fat pellet that is mineral balanced for any forage, and I feed about 25 % alfalfa hay to 75% grass. In the summer. I cut the grass hay, supplement with grass pasture and feed a little more alfalfa.There are many parts of the country where one can't buy alfalfa, or alfalfa doesn't grow. Alfalfa isn't important - but balanced nutrition is.I would say the main advantage of feeding grass hay is one can feed MORE of it and keep the horse SANE and at a healthy weight.
 
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