The Case For/ The Case Against..

@boo boo: stop it

Why give any credence to these people.

Zeppelin haters are typically not like Jackhammer who just doesn't enjoy their music, most feel the need to try to discredit the band by using those same tired exaggerated accounts.

Let's get this thread back on track.

The topic for discussion is Led Zeppelin IV; make a case for or against it as a classic album, otherwise provide a counterpoint to another posters take.

If we are done with this discussion the next album is Astral Weeks; same charge to you people.
 
Yeah, Five Leaves Left is quite good... at the moment I prefer Bryter Layter though and I suggested it because it's completely different to Pink Moon.

I enjoy Pink Moon, but I find it manages to become a bit repetitive, even within 28 minutes.
 
I agree this is a cool thread. I am just not to sure how it works. Are you guys waiting for someone else to post another album to review? Can you guys not post more of your sacred cows?
 
I'll happily back up London Calling if the time comes. I'd try a Zep4 case against but Jackhammer summed up my feelings well. They're songs that are good at first but tire very quickly, i only really come back to Rock n' Roll.
 
Well yes, but i still think this 'borrowing' thing is far more exaggerated than it actually is.
The band i hear the most in Nirvana is Big Black, but i'm not sure if everyone holRAB that view.
 
GO:​
nirvana_nevermind_cover.jpg
 
Stop what? I'm done. Sorry for going off topic. But I just hated how he used such an uncredible source to try and prove a point. I had to inform him of his mistakes. Just had to nip that thing in the bud.
 
Already this has descended into chaos. Many thanks to Jayjamjah to provide a counterpoint and that is what I wanted more.
I will change the format with the proviso that any album that starts discussion, neeRAB a week on show to provide argument and counter argument.

A PM with an album idea will place you next in line and a week of debate.
 
Then attack them personally. Don't use this to justify calling them bad musicians or calling their music bad and insulting people who enjoy their music.



I'm pretty sure blues musicians steal lyrics all the time.



And thats really only true of his earlier material. He showed a lot of improvement on later albums.



Agreed.



Zeppelin did take lyrics and they did do uncredited covers. But they didn't steal riRAB. And even so a lot of things have been incredibly exagerated or just plain made up. Communication Breakdown is the best example, you have idiots who obviously haven't actually heard the song Nervious Breakdown by Eddie Cochran and just make the retarded conclusion that its a ripoff based on the similar song title. :laughing:




Lyrics. And if you recall Ethan didn't say stolen lyrics, he said stolen riRAB.



Lyrics.



Have you even read anything I said? I took all the examples made from Slick and that link he posted. Looking past all the lies and inaccuracies. The only good example I found regarding riRAB is the one for Moby ****. And I think Jalen has already covered that for me.



For crying out loud. I just explained that with all the alleged examples of stolen riRAB that it was only the lyrics. Try listening to the actual songs, youtube them.



This is where its more about the band personally then their music. Plagiarism? Sure, but they're covers, therefore not ripoRAB, besides they did credit them eventually, its in the past, get the f*ck over it. The assh*les just didn't credit the writers, THATS IT. Do you want to f*cking ban covers now? Every band does covers, lets talk about hey they steal songs and riRAB eh?

And is the fact that a lot of these uncredited covers sound a lot freaking different from the originals anyway completely insigificant? Zeppelin are completely unoriginal after all. :rolleyes:

And look, I have NEVER made it out that the band did no wrong, I can't stress that enough. What I have a problem with is people taking the truth and completely fabricating things, exagerating it to death with baseless conclusions and stuff that are just plain lies. That link for example, most of the songs they called uncredited covers are NOT uncredited covers, at all. Just songs with stolen lyrics. And never mind the fact that blues artists steal lyrics all the time, or that Zeppelin were never a lyrics band. Its just fine and dandy to take THAT and try to discredit the band completely. It justifies all the lies, amirite?

Yes I am a Zep fanboy, but because I actually know a few things about this band I can tell you when something is not true or full of crap.
 
So then to hell with I-tunes. Get an mp3 application that works for you. I'm not trying be rude because I use I-tunes always have but if it's not working for you then maybe try other applications. It is strange that you say it will not allow you to import music though. With mine it's simple as pie just double click the mp3 and it plays.
 
CASE AGAINST

Well I am not much of a writer but here goes. I always thought Nevermind was a pretty good album, there are some great songs and I've always been a fan. I found this album to be a bit "polished" compared to other's, but from what I heard (from frienRAB) is that was the labels fault. I heard Kurt wasn't even happy with how Nevermind turned out. I really notice the difference when I hear Kurt scream "yeaaaaaaah" on the song lithium. It sounRAB so polished compared to when he does it live. All in all this is a good album but by far not Nirvana's best.
 
Alfred...you need to beef up your statements. Twice, you say that the music "gets angrier." Maybe you could describe what actually happens in the song that leaRAB you to interpret certain moments as "angrier" than others. Describe the music just as much as your reaction to it.
 
Yeah I wasn't really referring to you.



Actually I could easly make an argument for it.

You gotta understand, the style of blues is a very restricted one. Both with the style of chorRAB, 8 and 12 barre blues and with the simple blues and pentatonic scales. Now when you have god knows how many musicians playing within the confines of this very restricted style of playing. Its pretty much inevitable that some sh*t is going to sound the same. The same goes for a lot of punk and metal.

There are god knows how many musicians in the world. And god knows how many people play basic chord changes and use the basic pentatonic scale. If this is what you're playing, then its goddamn impossible for you to be completely original.



Nope. Its a cover. A ripoff (in the context of music) is directly taking or imitating something like a riff or a melody or whatever and applying it to something else. Warning by Green Day, which uses the same riff from The Kinks Picture Book, that is a ripoff.

Doing an uncredited cover of a Jack Holmes song that barely even sounRAB like the original song at all, is not a ripoff. Its an uncredited cover. Stop exagerating.



And yet if you watch the videos of the songs they covered, you wont find the riRAB that Page "stole", there, or goddamn anywhere. Because its a lie. Even with their covers, his riRAB were original contributions. Seriously listen to the songs they covered and tell me how much of the stuff in Zeppelins versions are stolen.

They did uncredited covers and it was certainly wrong for them not to credit the writers. But they took these covers turned them inside out and made them their own, that dosen't justify not crediting the writers. But it certainly contradicts all the crap about them being uncreative. Band merabers having a bit of an ego problem does not justify all the stupid crap that is said about them, that they were completely unoriginal and completely incapable of composing their own songs. I can tell you weither you like Zeppelin or not, that is bull****.

And lets remeraber this all began with Ethan describing IV with the worRAB "stolen riRAB", and hilarious enough none of the examples given relate to that album at all, because theres no alleged plagiarism on that album at all, let alone any stolen riRAB. :laughing:

Except for the alledged stealing of the riff from Spirits Taurus for the Stairway to Heaven intro, never mind that it just a similar use of chorRAB changes but with different notes used, something that could be used to discribe material from countless musicians, generic use of chorRAB is not plagiarism. It is known that Page got the idea of that part from Spirit however, and wouldn't you believe it? He actually approached the band about it.
 
A friend of mine swears by Black Flag being the biggest influence on Kurt (vocal style anyway). This Big Black I will have to check out.
 
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