The "cartoons are for kids" mentality: does it really exist?

No need to feel sorry for me....my life's going pretty good right now. ;)

And no, I have no problem seeing the differences between anime (not 'animae') and USAnimation, it's just that all that is moot. There are also a lot of cultural, social and stylistic factors involved which distinguish Candian, British, French and Italian cartoons from American ones as well, but that doesn't make them any less cartoons. Anime elitists like to say that anime is 'something more than mere cartoons' in order to put it over animation from every other nation and to make themselves seem deeper and more cultured than Joe and Jane Average, but here's the thing: in Japan anime means "cartoons".

Using the car analogy, yes, a Rolls-Royce is in a different class from a Ford minivan. But both devices have an engine, 4 wheels, a motor and a chassis, therefore both are cars. A Rolls-Royce isn't somehow not a car just because it's imported, more expensive and classier. By the same principle, an anime is not somehow something else besides a cartoon just because of its' content. (BTW, not all animes are sophisticated, adult and graphically violent; they cover as wide a range of subject matter and are aimed at just as varied audiences as Western shows are.

All pretentions aside, a carton is a cartoon is a cartoon, regardless of where it's made.
 
Gah, this is ridiculous.

Social, stylistic and cultural differences simply do not change the fact that Japanese animation is just as much a cartoon as the likes of whatever is released in any other country.

Like I've said numerous times: a cartoon is a cartoon is a cartoon. It doesn't matter where it's made, who makes it or what the content is.

The word "cartoon" is all-encompassing. At least that's how I feel.
 
I like you, but I'm choosing to disagree. Of the "adult" group you've mentioned, Spawn I'd like to see and Family guy I've seen. Producers in the US have the idea that ugly words and base stupidity,,, that is sensor cleared for 16 and above is "adult". While I won't bring in the true meaning of over 18 "adult", there really is a different appeal for adult viewers that transcends stuff kids aren't allowed to hear. We understand emotion differently, at all age levels,,, we were young once. We also accept failure and compromise. But make no mistake, we like winning with force when we can. As I consider myself a "childish adult", My humour is both simple and emotionally complex.

(No onesw going to understand a word I'm saying, are they? I'm used to it, to the point that I can easily baffle people with complexity. I've also seen right through people trying to showball me.)

Really, it is on topic. I mention cartoons around , and mostly I get back "AS" comedy.
 
By your guys' logic (if you can call it that), we might as well get rid of ALL specific labels for things and live in a Dick Tracy "generic" world. Anything from a Great Dane to a Chihuahua is just a "dog". If you want to paint something "blue", there is only one color to pick from for EVERYBODY. The Wall St. Journal and the National Enquirer are both "the News".
 
Define "American style".



While by your logic, certain breeds of dog aren't actually dogs. O...kay. And there was me thinking that this topic had been saved.

Look, if you want to be taken seriously, stop using dog and car analogies and talk about something closer to home - namely, live action cinema. Would referring to both Schindler's List and Plan 9 from Outer Space as "films" be bad in your eyes?
 
Yes. Yes they are. Aquamarine is no more less a shade of blue than navy Blue or Baby Blue. They aren't different colors, just different shades of the same color. They're all still blue.


Dude, you're just venting now. Let me just say one final thing about this so we can (please) return to the subject of this thread:

In Japan, the word anime means "animation", therefore, in it's native country, the tern anime refers to ANYTHING that is animated. In Japan, Help! It's the Hair Bear Bunch is just as much an anime as Ghost in the Shell is. Popeye is an anime in Japan, so is Mission Hill, The Raccoons and Winx Club. Therefore, like it or not, anime = cartoon. You may want to think that anime is somehow better or different, but it isn't. Just because a few anime snobs choose to think that anime is deeper and more intricate and is therefore superior to the animation from any and every other nation and yadda, yaddda, yadda, (which incidentally, is not a fact, merely a common opinion among the anime snobs), that most certainly is not the case. That doesn't make Akira any less a cartoon than say, Tom & Jerry or The Flintstones. The fact remains that anime, regardless how one regards it, is still animation and is still therefore (say it with me now), a....CARTOON.

Let

it

go.
 
Done in the American fashion, as opposed to the Japanese fashion. There are a ton of technical distinctions, from writing to character design, shot construction, "camera" movement within the frame, etc.





You still aren't getting it. For terms of comparative analysis, it is TOO SIMPLISTIC to simply refer to any animated subject as "cartoons", just as it is too simplistic to refer to any two dogs or cars as such even if it IS accurate.

Yes, I would object to simply comparing Plan 9 with Schindler's List because they are two completely different types of film (B film and war drama, specifically), written for completely different audiences, with different sensibilities, different different production values, .
so on and so forth. There is no productive comparison to be made, even though they are both technically films, because they are just TOO different.

Same with animation. Frankly, even "American cartoons" is too broad a brush for me...is it really accurate to put the old Looney Tunes shorts (one off funny stories) in the same basket as Justice Leage (ongoing weekly series), or Mask of the Phantasm (feature length film)?
 
Oy vey.

Look, ShadowDemon, if we can all just agree to disagree, will you please just drop the elitist anime thing so we can get this thread back on point? Let's NOT turn this into another "anime VS cartoons" argument. There have already been tons of threads about this tired debate.

Like the man says,

Let.

It.

Go.

Already.
 
1) I already said I don't even LIKE anime, so quit saying I'm an "anime elitist". My point has nothing to do with which is "better", only that they are different.

2) We are on point...the OT is "is there a 'cartoons are for kids' " attitude? To debate that, we must define our terms, and I maintain it is inaccurate to place anime in the same basket with American animation, and lump the short subject with the 1/2 hour continuing and "full feature length" formats and call the whole thing "cartoons".
 
Seriously, enough quibbling over terms. Let's stick to the subject at hand and not get into any more of that, shall we? Enough time has been wasted on that nonsense as it is. If we use a separate term for Japanese animation, then in all fairness we would have to come up with a specific term for EVERY other nations' animation style as well. For the purpose of this discussion, it's just easier to call them all cartoons. If you don't want to do that, just call it all animation, M'kay?
 
Cartoons only for kids? Oh please, and I'm Queen of Sukowalili Island.

Seriously, if cartoons are only for kids, what did they make South Park and Family Guy for?
 
Well, I'm an adult and I enjoy Looney Tunes and Animaniacs! more than I do South Park or Family Guy. What does that say about me?

You're missing the point. No one is debating that South Park and Family Guy are made for adults. That's not the point of this discussion. The question is: Have you ever been looked down upon or ridiculed for liking more general audience aimed cartoons such as Tiny Toon Adventures or Scooby Doo?
 
I feel sorry for a lot of cartoon fans. I really do. They DO have huge chips on their shoulders. It's probably just me but when someone screams at me that there is nothing wrong with one of their fandoms one of my first reactions is to think there MUST be something wrong with it if they are getting so defensive about it. It's human nature. People don't like to be lectured and someone trying to "educate" someone that Animaniacs is really made for adults is just more likely to make the person being lectured think that the other person is nuts. I like cartoons especially cartoons that are fun and kid friendly. I think a LOT of people in fandom would be much happier if they were able to acknowledge that their fandoms aren't as deep as they insist they are.
 
Outline some of these differences.



So you don't think they should be on IMDB together, then? Should there be a seperate IMDB for every conceivable type of film?



So why, then, did you bring up the concept of "American style animation" into this topic?

You're finally getting the idea - animation isn't divided into "American" and "Japanese" halves. There are countless little categories that make it up. Dozens and dozens of the damn things. So many, in fact, that isolating them all is impossible. Which is why sometimes the most managable thing to do is to lump them all together. There.
 
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