The Assassination of Jesse James By The Coward Robert Ford Appreciation

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:lol: I had heard of Jesse James, I knew he was an outlaw and a thief, but didn't really have any idea of how much was myth, or any particulars really. I just heard of him in passing. I'm Puerto Rican. :) We're born with the American citizenship, but I'm from Puerto Rico.

Truly, he was disappointed and pretty down, but along the way, when he started standing up to Jesse, there was a sense, "I know who you are now, I'm not a fool anymore." At least, that's what I read into it. :nod: Yes, Casey Affleck was so good when Jesse said that they were lies, it was like a cloud came over his face.

No, you said it perfectly! I agree. It was basically, Bob Ford against the world, because it was truly "the world" (the rest of the people that didn't know Jesse) that stood between him and his destiny. Jesse was already a legend, he had become all he would ever be. But Bob's destiny was still to be shaped and he chose a path that could never make him happy or an equal to Jesse, he was even less regarded than before. He had become a "coward" and a bitter figure, and nobody cared to know why or how he came to be this person. I mean, that's just harsh. Jesse was even in death, and impossible opponent. When he killed him, he made him untouchable.

Thanks for the clips! Oh, I remember the scene vaguely but right, I loved the fact that even the shadows had they're own place telling the story of Bob's inner struggle to love or hate Jesse.
 
Well I think There Will Be Blood tops Jesse James for me, but I loved this movie. One of the best, I agree.
 
Casey Affleck was amazing... I was sitting there eating it up, he deserved the recognition. :nod:

The dynamic of the characters was powerful since the beginning, I was too sucked in and the title didn't matter, just the story unfolding. Yeah, Brad Pitt took a backseat on this one come awards time. But he did give it his all and he did look like a legendary figure, he gave the movie so much credibility.
 
That's a great review, the second one :sigh: I liked the bit about Brad veering to darker roles, it's true.

Would you have preferred having extras in the DVD? OK this is slightly OT but I think it would have been nice to have extras. You know, an interview with Andrew Dominik, or maybe deleted scenes (I love deleted scenes :lol:). Still, if the movie's good enough then having extras doesn't really matter; likewise, if a movie is bad then all the extras in the world won't make it good.

Oh and by the way, we were talking about the music, right? Anyway some kind soul has uploaded them all on YouTube, so give it a listen:

YouTube - #01. "Rather Lovely Thing"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #02. "Moving On"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #03. "Song for Jesse"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #04. "Falling"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #05. "Cowgirl"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #06. "The Money Train"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #07. "What Must Be Done"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #08. "Another Rather Lovely Thing"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #09. "Carnival"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #10. "Last Ride Back to KC"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #11. "What Happens Next"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #12. "Destined for Great Things"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #13. "Counting the Stars"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #14. "Song for Bob"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #15. "Song for Charley"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #16. "The Legend of Jesse James"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis
YouTube - #17. "Moving On Once Again"- Nick Cave & Warren Ellis

I haven't had the time to listen to everything yet but I like how it's quite dreamy for the most part - just like the visuals, don't you think?
 
Yes, I know! And come on Academy people, give Roger Deakins an Oscar already (I know I've said this before but look at his work and tell me how he's been snubbed every season?).

From the IMDB boards, which I found interesting:



You don't have to agree, but what do you think?
 
No extras, I didn't check out the DVD since it was a rental but here is what DVDTalk's review said:




Also, this is from the Blu-ray review but it touches on what were talking about earlier. If you haven't read the reviews already, this is very interesting. :nod:



:lol: Totally. It's time to focus on whats coming up next. Hehe.
 
You watched it on DVD! How was it? There aren't any special features, right?

Neither do I. Well that was a few months ago, we're entitled :lol:
 
And here I thought I would be the one (out of the two of us) who didn't know the Jesse James legend - I always thought you were American? Of course I realise that you don't have to be American to know the legend and vice versa but yeah. I came in with a blank slate as well. I wasn't actively looking out for who the hero and the villain were but I remember being wowed at how complex both characters were.

That line you mention, that one where Jesse says "They're all lies, you know" - I didn't read Bob's reaction as relief/disappointment, I read it as a combination of disappointment, heartbreak, betrayal. I mean, having an image of your hero for so long and then finding out it wasn't the truth at all. You can see it in Casey's grimace before he covers up by saying "of course" or something like that. But I think that was the first moment he began to - well not turn exactly, but that was when the myth started to shatter.

I know! It says so much about his intentions, his relationship with Jesse, his state of mind, everything. If you don't mind I'd like to explain what I mean. That statement reveals that at the point of the assassination he thought that people would be happy that such a notorious criminal had been killed, like you said he didn't expect that people would love the myth just as he did. And I love how that later the narrator says "... that he truly regretted killing Jesse, that he missed the man as much as anybody and wished his murder hadn't been necessary." Back then Bob was idealistic and it reflects in the way he expected people to love him for his act, and as the Bob Ford that said that line to Ella Mae was a different Bob Ford from the one that had killed Jesse James. He also wanted the applause because he realised he could never be part of the legend and the fame and therefore would have to get it in a deadlier way. And of course at that point in time he only had hate for Jesse so he could destroy the man he was betrayed by as well.

Er I realise I've put it very badly, I could have phrased it a million times better but you get what I mean, I'm sure. It's a great bit. I love how one sentence is able to convey so much. Oh and - you can watch the "You know what I expected? Applause." and the ending bit with the narrator that I really like here ;)

You can see a bit of the Bob pretending to be Jesse in his bed, with his makeshift damaged finger in the trailer. It's only one second and you don't see it from the angle I really like - plus the lighting is a bit darker in that one frame - but it's still good. It's at 1:11 here.
 
That's so cool that it is one of Deakin's favorite scenes as well! :nod:

Oh yeah, it is a bit scary, but the composition is gorgeous even in a still.
 
Yeah... Bob was part of Jesse's life, not the other way around.

Yes, I watched the movie on DVD. I can't point anything out either, but it sure sounded good!

I actually don't remember all the noms either. :lol: Oh man.
 
Exactly. Without Jesse James there would be no Bob Ford, or at least not the Bob Ford we know anyway, so it makes sense that Casey would be best Supporting, not Best Actor. And can you see Brad doing anything less than a main role? I thought not.

I know! But I can't remember it so I can't really point out anything :( where did you watch it - on DVD?

True. Wait, who were the Best Director nominees again? I know there was PTA, the Coen brothers (Joel?), Julian Schnabel... can't remember the other two though.
 
I agree with you about the Best Actor/Supporting actor debate. It's Jesse's life story which includes Bob and all that he brought to the table.

The score was so good! Sometimes it sounded like western lullabies. :sigh:

Best Director? Yeah. I mean, I don't think he was nastily robbed of a nomination cosidering how many good movies there were this year, but he deserved one alright. This movie could've been boring and too dramatic, but it wasn't.
 
Right. I don't know much about Jesse James, so I was a blank slate coming in (still am :lol:) so I was totally prepared for what they title offered me. From the get go, I was looking for "the coward" and all I found was this kid, and then the roles started getting all mixed, it was great. Never woud I trust a man so cold as Jesse, but Bob had loved him before knowing him, so he was at a disadvantage there, and Jesse had the higher ground for a while. I love the ambiguity too. It's great, they are just two human beings, but that's just a technicality in the way of myth, Jesse was a hero for people, and Bob became his killer. The movie played on that beautifully when Jesse commented how he was nothing like the stories they told of him and his brother. You could see Bob didn't know wether to be disappointed or relieved that he got to know the 'real' thing.

That line was awesome. Bob forgot that not everyone was around Jesse, that they were still him at the beginning of the movie without the benefit of his own personal journey. Bob would have never applauded a man for killing Jesse before he got to know him.

Aw, what a shame, I hardly remember that scene. I have to shop around for the movie to see it again. But you bring up an excellent point, the lighting on this movie was magnificent. The shadows, the browns, the whites and blues were almost palpable. The way some people's faces were lit depending on the scene and the issues presented. :sigh:
 
Finally saw it. *victory dance*

I thought the pacing was good, the length okay and the acting amazing. And well, damn, just what a beautiful, beautiful movie.

Filmcritic.com has a habit of giving bad reviews to fine films, and they did it again on this one. One of their arguments was that the title took out the suspense of the film. I disagree, first, it's not like it's some big secret. Also, it made you analize since the beginning looking for signs about Robert Ford and how he came to be the man that killed Jesse James.

It wasn't even about the fact that he killed him, it was why and how and wether he should've, wether he would do it again if he had the chance.

Another argument I disagreed: Jesse James wasn't interesting. The fact that Robert Ford was a fascinating character doesn't mean Jesse James wasn't interesting himself. Jesse James is a man living in the shadow of his own legend. Most men are dead before they become legends, Jesse James living in the middle of it. Brad Pitt portrayed that beautifully, I think.
 
Yeah. I love how you start out watching the movie with all this expectation because of the title, and how you expect Jesse to be a hero and Bob the villain, but as the movie goes on they become blurred because you don't know who's the hero and who's the villain anymore. I thought the line "He's just a human being" was very potent. And then at the end you're left reeling because of how human both of them were, and then the title at the end which (usually) I find superfluous but in this instance it's great because of how ironic it is (or maybe it's still true - it depends on how you viewed it, I love the ambiguity) and then you think about how you've been brought on a journey during the movie.

Yes! And the line "You know what I expected? Applause." Amazing. And yes, I have to agree with you for your last two paragraphs, not much to add on so I'll just leave it here.

Another great scene was the part where Bob pretends to be Jesse in the house when the Hardys/Jameses go to church with Charley. OK I know we've talked about how great the cinematography is but I really loved the scene. It's got a very clean feel to it, a lot of whites and browns, the lighting is beautiful. And then especially the scene of Bob lying in Jesse's bed, making the finger "with its top two knuckles missing" and then you see the shot from Bob's perspective, of the hand with the light as well. The first time I saw the movie I thought it was nothing special, but the second time I really liked it. Just the composition of it, and the lighting. That whole section was beautiful but I found the image of the hand and the way it was captured especially beautiful.
 
No problem! I had been looking for it for ages as well so when it appeared in a list of Roger Deakin's most favourite moments (of his own career) I had to take it right away. I realise the cap itself looks a bit scary but you know what scene I was referring to - all the light and shadow and smoke, it was the cap of one of the most beautiful movies I've seen of all time.
 
Oh, that was just terribly attractive in a way. He's scary because he's charming and 'mythical' but the danger is still real and you're not sure if you're falling for his aura, or just being fooled, which the movie suggests, is all the same at the end.

:lol: Yeah!

That was a great scene. It's the way he's fallen down after Jesse's death. A hero for killing a bandit, then a coward and a bad man for taking away the people's legend. It is very true of men like Jesse James to leave behind victims of his fairytale. Bob Ford was a fool to believe that people wouldn't turn on him, especially people who never met the man and were like him at the beginning, in love with a man that never existed.

The dialogue you posted was awesome I know I was hanging on every word on the final scenes. Bob was a shadow of the Bob Ford that was a kid in love with his hero, then scared enough by a tyrant to kill him. There was nothing left but the shame. That ending scene was hard hitting.
 
I'm not sure about Best Supporting Actor, to be honest I felt that both of them were really good. If they hadn't been up against each other they would have both won (ie, separate years). One thing though, slightly OT but still relevant: some people on the IMDb boards (probably Casey fans actually) think that he should have been nominated for Best Actor because they saw him, not Jesse James, as the leading character... which I think is rubbish. Jesse James was the leading character - not just in the legend, but he was the focus of the story. OK I'm not explaining this very well because I know it was also a character study of Bob Ford but Jesse James is the point of the story, it's about how hero worship can get so insane so wouldn't the hero - Jesse James - be the main character? Odd people.

As for Cinematography, I think you know my view on this - I thought Robert Elswitt's work was slightly better for TWBB, but I think it's criminal that Roger Deakins hasn't gotten an Oscar yet for his work. (Incidentally I felt his work for Jesse James was better than for No Country, although both were excellent). I've enjoyed his work for previous Coen brothers movies as well - I wonder how long the Academy can continue to forget him?

Ooh as for other awards - I was shocked that Jesse James wasn't nominated for Best Score. I loved the score. Especially after Jonny's work was ruled ineligible I thought Jesse James would have had a chance - it was better than Ratatouille, surely.

And do you think Andrew Dominik should have been nominated for Best Director?
 
That is a wonderful cap! Thanks for sharing! :sigh: The silhouette in shadows is perfect.



I gasped as well! I just sat up and went, "omg, this is beautuful and haunting." Great moment!
 
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