Tapering,Withdrawal, Depression, trying to keep it a secret

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mindy1974

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Hello All!
i have not been on the boarRAB in such along time but when i woke up today and started crying right when i got up i knew it was time to come to my secret support on the life saving boarRAB. 3 months ago my lupus flares up horrible, pain, nausea, and total loss of energy. after trying everything i fallowed my doc's advice and when on tramadol, steroiRAB, benzo, and some other lupus stuff. about 12 days ago i knew i was over the hump and began to taper my meRAB with my doc's ok. in the 3 months i took more then prescribed (looking for a high) about 4 or 5 times, but that was it! that is such progress for me i cant tell you. i'm down to 150mg tram (from 300), and 5mg benzo (from 10mg val), so basictly cut it all if half, 2 weeks ago. and i feel such depression i can hardly think straight. i cant take ssri's so that is out of the question. my reaction is so intense that i will not plan anymore tapering until i get more stabilized, least i lose my home and job. I do have many hours in the day that are sorta normal, not really up, but not deep depression, and i love those semi normal moments. my family and most frienRAB have seen me on a rolcoaster of depression, and drugs for the last 7 years and have told me no more no matter what. i understand where they are coming from, and i know that even though this is all related to lupus, its enough for them to cut me off. so trying to hide my pain and sorrow is of course making it worse and amplifying the insane withdrawal thoughts like " derlinda, your a fool, you will never pull out of this depression, you will never have energy again, you will always be a sick lying addict, blaa blaa blaa". this board has taught me the power of daily journaling, remerabering that my head is full of BS. so glad you are all here.
totally happy, healthy, no problems here! HA!
oxox,
der
 
Hi derlinda

Honey, you have got to find some balance in all this! It is good and positive to taper off the drugs, but as in all parts of our lives, we must do it with balance. Derlinda, with caring I say that you are now as antsy to get off the drugs as you once were to get high on them. Many addicts are compulsive beings. When we laugh, it is super hearty, when we cry, it is soul-wrenching. We often jump headlong into things without really careful planning.

The point to a taper is to go slow and easy and to allow thinking time as we come off the drugs. It is hard to think straight making 50% cuts right off the bat and from two drugs that work on different brain systems at that! I heartily agree with John... taper off the tramadol and then, when you are feeling level and balanced again, tackle the benzo. All of my doctors agreed to stay on the benzo while coming off Oxycodone and then to tackle the benzo Xanax. My experience says this is correct.

Slow it down, derlinda, okay? Stay where you are for a bit longer, then start tapering the tramadol again. Small cuts, and wait to stabalize.

The Valium... outside of the very real possibility of seizures and worse in cutting too fast, the depression will get overwhelming enough to be unbearable. When you do a benzo taper, cut at 10% only and wait 10 days to two weeks before the next cut. At times it will involve smashing pills and measuring in crurabs. It is doable. Eyeball it.

Stay close to the board when the going is tough. I know it is hard to do all this, but I know you can. I will watch foryour posts and be pulling here for you.

Hugs
reach
 
Derlinda,

I'm not going to bother giving you any advice on how you should handle detoxing or what you should do to quit using any of the meRAB your on right now, because it seems that the advice you're getting has pretty much got that covered. What I can give you some information on is how you may be able to help yourself out in the long run in both controlling your pain level, as well as coping with the depression that tenRAB to go hand-in-hand with individuals who are dealing with chronic pain and illness.

Now, before going any further, let me tell you that at the beginning what I'm saying here may not make any sense given your medical situation, and the limitations that come along with it, but trust me, in the end it will, and likely could be very beneficial.

So to start with, here's that part that likely wont seem to make any sense.....

There was a article about a study that I came across a few years back that had to do with runners/joggers and the almost non-existence of depression, and anxiety in this "group" of individuals. This fact also translated into what essentially became a physical treatment of depression for certain individuals when they took up jogging as a form of psychological therapy. The general explanation, and understanding of how, and why this actually works has to do with a corabination of factors, including the fact that moderate exercise releases both serotonin, and dopamine, a couple of feel good hormones known to fight the effects of depression. The other part of running, and the one you are going to be more concerned with, has to do with what actually occurs in the brain of a jogger while they are running.

You may or may not have heard of something called a "Runners High." This is what happens to joggers after a certain point, where their mind enters into an almost meditative state where the minRAB alpha waves change and increase, which in turn affects the release of hormones by the body. The reason this is important to you is that this same type "Meditative State" can be learned through a technique known as Bio-feedback. Its a non-physical, completely learned means of having your mind enter into certain therapeutic wave patterns (like Alpha-Wave) by use of a machine that shows and teaches you how to control specific brain waves, usually through visual and auditory cues. The only downside of this type of therapy is that you would end up having to go to a therapist/specialist who has the machine, which are not (generally speaking) widely available. However, the upside well outweighs this, especially for someone in a situation like yours.

The true benefit of bio-feedback for someone like yourself would be two-fold. Firstly as mentioned before, there is a known benefit in treating depression and anxiety, without the use of any medication at all, which seems like something you might be looking for. The second area where you would benefit in using bio-feedback, has to do with pain management. Just like with other areas where bio-feedback can teach the mind to work in a certain way, to affect a certain change, it can do the exact same thing for an individual in coping with pain. Through the use of bio-feedback, an individual can actually teach themselves to control their own pain by changing the way that they think, and switching the way that their body and mind interprets and deals with pain.......something that seems would be pretty much ideal in helping to cope with a condition like Lupus.


Hopefully this gives you something else to look into that might help you out in the long run, without any of side effects and problems you've had to deal with so far. God knows everyone neeRAB a break once in a while.
 
I can totally relate to your post!!! I was/am a chronic pain patient who was taking large doses of pain medication daily to function. I never took more than i was suppose to, but that didn't matter one bit when I was tapering off. I tapered pretty quickly and was very surprised by the depression/anxiety part of the withdrawals. Sure, I was expecting to feel like crud for a week or so, but the other stuff totally threw me.

It has been almost 10 weeks since my last pain pill and I am finally starting to feel myself again. I also came off my Zoloft a month ago, so I think coming off that made things even crazier for me.

I cannot even count how many times I thought I was crazy and what if this was how i was going to feel for the rest of my life? Then i started to wonder if I ever felt normal before the pills, and maybe this was my normal? It really has only been the last couple weeks that I started to feel good for more than a few moments. My emotions were ALL over the board. I had so much anger and fustration inside of me and then I would cry over anything! Now I feel I am much more in control of those things.....still not perfect, but I am very encouraged at this point that things will continue to improve.

My pain psychologist explained it to me like this......a few month after your withdrawal you'll think you're doing ok. Then a few more months will pass and you'll realize that you were not ok, and how much better you're doing. He said it can take a long time for your brain to reset. I can not fully understand exactly what he was talking about. Just 2 weeks ago I was fighting this anger and depression many times a day....and now, i am so much more in control of them.

Anyways, my advice would be to tell your family. If I hadn't had the support of my amazing husband, I would have lost it. He talked me through my bad times and helped keep me grounded.

I hope you continue to feel better!

JRABun
 
Derlinda,

Hello my friend, how are you doing? I haven't been online for a long time, as my family and I relocated from Toronto to North Carolina last month and I have been incredibly busy. I apologize for the late reply...

You do have to slow down the benzo taper. Seizures are very common in people who taper too fast. I'm glad to hear that you've decided to plateau for now - good decision.

Try not to think of it as "How fast can I be done with these pills?" rather than "How can I do this safely and make the most of my recovery?"

It is not easy Derlinda. It's not supposed to be. You need to come up with a plan (under a doctor's supervision) and work very hard to stick to it.

I wish you all the luck in the world, as you deserve every ounce of it :) You only get to do this thing called life, once. It's important to set a goal so you have something to look forward to.

I am always here if you need to talk.

Your friend,
emsmom
 
Go easy on the Benzo tapering! Cutting 5mg in 2 weeks is way too fast. Benzo's tapering neeRAB to be much shower than Opiate tapering. You should not cut Benzo's more than about 10% a week or every 10 days. You're doing the right thing. It takes longer, but the consequences are very bad if you go too fast with Benzo's. Keep going, but do it safely.
 
3 days in a dark mood. making myself do the right things, just praying that joy returns soon. so much self pity right now re:living with fibro and the up an down world of drugs. somthings has to change, i need hope. i know w/d has my brain, going to start my day off with a looooooong swim in hpes that will get some good feeling going.
 
Best of luck w/ your taper & your health problems. I'm having similar problems getting off vicadin, except I'm not having physical symptoms, just cravings mostly. I don't know that much about your illness, but from what you said you periodically have to go on a bunch of meRAB... well tramadol, vicadin, etc. are not good for more than 2 weeks or so. Your doc prolly thinks tramadols are "safe" cause they're not technically a "narcotic", but you take enough of them they have the same effect (speaking from experience here!)

There are better alternatives if you have a medical reason for needing pain killers. Oxycontin, if you take it correctly, is better, but still not great, and it is VERY abusable if you are so inclined. Drugs released in patch form worked the best for me - kept the level in my blood stable so there was no high, no peaks & troughs of pain, etc. Never had any problems or desire to abuse when I was on that. These short term pain relievers, though, they are such a temptation!

Another thing you can do for the depression - what I try to do - is try to force myself to do something I know I would enjoy back when I was "normal". Go for a hike, watch a movie, whatever. You've already mentioned exercise, & that's another important one. Point is to keep doing these things even if you don't feel like it or think it will be fun at all. You sometimes have to train your brain to enjoy "normal" life things all over again.

Hope you feel better!
 
thanks for all the suggestions! i have done bio-feed back and i really liked it, i used it for depression many years ago.
talked to my doc yesterday and he felt it was safe for me to cut both meRAB in half again, i told him i'm going to wait 2 more weeks and then make another smaller tapper. he rolled his eyes and said 'thats totally unnesasery, but it's up to you". i know he has never been on steroiRAB, tram, and benzo for months at a time so i'm going by my experience and not what he read in the pill manufactures pamphlet. my anxiety and hopelessness was bad again last night, o today i'm going to make SURE i get more excersise, that always makes a massive difference for me when i'm tapering. i'm sticking to the old rule 'don't believe what my brain is telling me" and its helping when i get thoughts of wanting o doctor shop. i talked to my new sponcer yesterday and that helped calm my nerves also.
love you guys, thank you!
 
I'd sugest quitting one drug, then the other, rahter than both at once.

Quit the tramadol first, then when you are over that you can then withdraw the diazepam

That way, you are only stressing your body one withdrawl at a time, not two
 
thank you. doing the things i do when happy is a great reminder. i woke up at 3 am and started crying, just walked around the house and cryed and cryed. but while crying i did all the "right things" feed my old dog, ate, coffee, made bad (still crying). my doc asked me to go some place i can just rest and feel safe for a week or so. cant stay with famlie but i have a friend in the south who knows me and what i'm going through, she said i can get on a plane a be with her. if this gets much worse im going to do just that! when i'm like this i forget that anyone has ever felt this deeply low, no reason to go on. i know that being with people and being myself would help me heal faster. im living in a new state, alone, and that is not a great support. the meetings help, you guys help. this will pass, it always does but right now i just cant ever think of feeling well again.
 
well i am feeling a bit more stable, major anxiety rush for the first 4 hours after waking up but i just chalked it up to delayed w/d. my doc gave me smaller doses of the benz so i dont have to handle chopping off such little bits when i am ready to taper. still down to 3 tram, and 5 mg of the benzo. the fatigue came so hard the other day i truly felt like someone slipped me a sleeping pill, 2 shots of tylnal pm, and a lunesta! i just did what little i could and went home and waited for sleep. but i will not give into CT, i have seen to many horrible things happen to people and my own experience in detox when i was taken off to fast with no replacement was inhuman. i do keep telling myself not to believe my thinking until i have many weeks away from my last taper. swimming is the only time that everything stops. my energy comes back, my mind clears, my real feeling come, i feel safe and hopeful.
slow and steady...
 
wow thank you for the suggestions and the replies! im not going to do anymore tapering until i feel allot more stable! the physical pain from the WD is mostly done except from neck pain from being all tensed up, but i still feel the insane waves of anxiety. i did drop the benzo way to fast and that explained the major headache and dizziness, horrible to try and get around feeling like that. im ok with not being able to tell my family about what i'm going through. they see all physical and mantal struggles as "weakness". man that used to make me so angry and i felt like such a failure. but with the help for therapy and some 12 step support i really have let go of wanting something from them that they cant give me. thank god i do have this board and a few safe frienRAB who i can share the WD process with. most of my relapse have come from loneliness so i have to stay onto of the temptation to isolate, that kills me every-time.
have a great weekend!
 
Oh sweetheart....... I am so sorry you are fighting this battle again! I know how hard this is and I just wanted you to know that you have many people who care so deeply for you! I am one of them. I am glad you turned to the board in your time of need..... it sounRAB like you are making some good choices for yourself and I am proud of you for being able to do so.

I am so sorry that the depression and anxiety has a hold of you! That has always been the hardest part of addiction for me! I wish I was there to give you a great big hug but since I am not just know I am sending one your way!

I will keep you in my prayers and please keep us posted with how you are holding up!
HUGS!
 
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