Subs or Dubs?!?

Guys... I understand that the original audio might be more authentic and give you that warm fuzzy feeling that you're a hardcore otaku and not a poser, BUT... you KNOW that it can be annoying to read subs... granted, a lot of dubbing today is below par, but that doesn't mean that everyone should feel obligated to watch subs... I mean, at AX last year the crowd started booing when they started showing something dubbed... reminds me of music snobs who stomp all over what other people like b/c they have to massage their own ego
 
its all about subs now...most of the anime i used to watch on adult swim arent worth it any more and the only anime i really like to watch raw is Ranma 1/2 since i watched it like a million times already and then Azumanga Daioh too.


3 weeks
 
This topic again. Well, I prefer dubs, especially for anime that it only seems natural for the characters to speak in English (like scifi). Dubs are really good these days. Just look at Samurai Champloo, Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell...however, if the dub is really bad, then I prefer the sub. I don't mind changing once in a while and watching subs, but unless the dub is really bad, I'll watch the dub if it's available any day.
 
hey, I've got an idea... if you like subs so much, then take up Japanese! Then you'll get the authenticity AND be able to look at something other than subtitles... gosh, I'm such a sub hater ... but seriously, I'm being consistent... I mean, do you guys like foreign films too? I didn't see Pan's Labyrinth b/c it wasn't English and the subs would've driven me crazy
 
Hello, everyone! Before anyone says anything, please don't see this as another subs vs. dubs debate topic. All I am is just a new user trying to break the ice and to post this essay a friend made.

On animeforums.com, I asked the question, "Should anime be dubbed?". Nearly everyone said that dubs are essential. One user by the name of "NovaStar" posted this essay. If you read it, it might make purists see the time, work, and money a dub takes, even if the end product is not always enjoyable. It certainly opened my eyes. ALL dubs have to go through this. If you take the time to read it, please tell me what you think. Again, not mine.

Alright, I suppose I should break this down for everyone, seeing as nobody can agree on it - I think however that this will recieve me more flames than positive critique, however I don't believe I care: I'm always up for talking on this subject, no matter whom brings it up, how they bring it up or why they bring it up. For 15 years now, I've been a fan of Japanese Animation, and I've heard both the english language and Japanese Language tracks on many different titles

Including D.N Angel, Nightwalker, Spiral, .Hack Sign, Noir, Angelic Layer, The Saber Mariontte Franchise, S-Cry-Ed, Azumanga Daioh and Tenchi Muyo(to name the VERY few I can think of off of the top of my head.) but it seems, that no matter whom speaks on it, no matter what is said, or no matter what is done, we as anime fans quandry and quarrel about an Anime being bad as a Dub and better as a Sub; I Personally like Both but tend to lean in towards the english dub.

I have a great ammount of respect for the anime industry, I myself am currently trying to get into it in any way possible, though that may not be easy, it's a dream, and damnit I can dream if I want to. One of the most common stories I hear from anime fans in general about why a Sub is better than a Dub is simple, it sticks closely to the Japanese - I think the reason for that is very clear and apparent

...

The people doing it ARE Japanese, so when it's done in it's original language, it will obviously be the first production of a series. The way I think of an anime, is like a broadway show, on opening night, you have nervous actors wondering "Will this be a hit, or will this be a flop" - Currently, Bandai Entertainment is going through the exact same wonderment and confusion with their recent aquisition of Suzumiya Haruhi No Yuutsu or in English The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi. In my opinion, this is make or break for a company like Bandai, simply because the followers of "Haruhi-Ism" or the fans of the show as it were, will have an absolute fit if this show is not "Done Well" as I have seen many of you say.

I doubt that any of us, as mere fans realize just how much work goes into releasing DVD's for the united states, or making a show "Properly" or "Done well" is concerned, first of all one of the major things I don't think any fan realizes, is that a Dub will never ever be 100 % onto the Japanese, which I believe that alot of hardcore fans are dying to see, but alas for them it shall never happen. I myself, from reading honest interviews from writers, publishers and producers from the anime industry have come to have a new respect for it after realizing, just how much work goes into these DVD's, and English Releases.

both Monica Rial and Tiffany Grant: Famed english voiceovers of many anime series such as Neon Genisis Evangelion Noir and Azumanga Daioh have gone on record in saying just how hard it is to make an english dub - I think us as fans have no right to accuse them of "butchering" a show in any way, when the honest truth is a Dub is one mere thing an Adaptation. it will not be spot on to the Japanese, it will not use the direct subtitled Translations on things to be put into englsh.

The Fact is, many things are dumbed down or changed slightly in anime to appeal to a North American audience, nearly every single one of anime, go through this. It is in my opinion that a show is NOT butchered by an American Dub Studio, but by an American Television Network

Prime example: Back in 1996 Fox Kids(Now Fox Box or "WUHF 31 Fox Rochester": Aquired the rights to Escaflowne, this series is Imfamous as far as what people concern to be a "Poor Dub" - for those of you who do not know, Escaflowne ran for a little under 3 months, not even completeing the show before it was pulled off of the network due to low ratings. in all honesty there are certain things in the show which Exceutives from Fox clearly said the following in my eyes.

"No, we can't do that, our demographic is garnered towards children, what we plan to do with the show is release it, and cut any offensive part out so that children can enjoy the show, watch it on Saturday mornings and not be offended by things they may see"

fast forward to about six months ago, I had purchased the "Vision of Escaflowne Anime Legends Box Set" from Bandai and to my suprise, nothing which was in the show that I saw circa 1996 from Fox Kids, seemed the same for that show, it was completely unedited and it was shown it's in entierty, one of the main things(and I apologize for those of you whom haven't seen Escaflowne) that was not shown due to censorship in america, was the fact that Dillandau was Alan's Sister.

This was a key part of the story, and in my eyes one of the key reasons that Escaflowne didn't take off at all over in the united states, however be that as it may, it is now 11 years later and Escaflowne is still one of the most popular series in anime to be released among hardcore fans of Mech and Fantasy. though this wasn't the only thing which had recieved bad reviews from an adaptation's standpoint.

More Recently the Dubbed Versions of One Piece and Naruto have hit the airwaves and both of them again were considered "Butchered" by the fans there's no doubt that aspects of the show were changed, especially in the case of One Piece but again, this problem falls to the network which is broadcasting the show, and not the company whom made it: Mind you, in One Peice's case it was dubbed by a company known as "4Kids" - and in my eyes, the name of that company shall tell you exactly what they do with their Anime they bring over to North America.

4Kids first major Release was back in early 1996 when it hit the airwaves with the giant phenom from Japan(That's right) The Pokemon Virus had begun to spread, and the kids(myself included) at the time, had been swept into the giant conglomerate which was Pokemon
all at the head of this giant marketing scheme was: You guessed it: 4Kids - Any Dub released by 4Kids will be badly done, simply because unless it was already aimed towards children, it will be sawed in half and juliened to automatically make it appeal towards children(Gum Gum Fruit for example in One Piece) I do not, and have not considered 4Kids an Anime company, because I believe as much as probably all of you do, that 4Kids is a company, which takes Anime(Such as One Piece) and turns them into westernized style cartoon's) even though Anime Stores Online DO sell the DVD's of it.

Another company for example, which is based out of Fort Worth Texas which has gotten(Somewhat) of a bad reputation is Funimation Ltd. commenly known for it's aquistion of Akira Toriyama's Dragon Ball Frachise which to this day is still being released in box set after remastered boxset after remastered boxset. I don't see what everyone's gripe was with Dragon Ball - to be honest for it's time AND for it's editing, it did an extremely good job after it was brought over to the united states, I know personally that the Dragon Ball Franchise is something I remembered growing up and it was the first time I ever worried "Will my Favorite Character Die Tonight?"

The Fact is, Funimation has released SEVERAL good Anime series onto DVD which are overlooked because the company which did it was plagued by one "Bad"(And I use that in quotes because in my eyes I do not believe it was at all) Series. Two shows for example that come directly to mind when thinking about Funimation and a Solid release for an Anime series have been Gunslinger Girl and Kiddy Grade both of which were dubbed and released by Funimation over the last two years.

Quite Abit goes into creating an English Release for an Anime: for example: you will literally see Thousands of Anime fans in the Dallas Area looking in the paper or looking on a website to find out when ADV Films will be doing it's next Casting Call for a show first of all, be prepared for a long wait, ADV's Callback list stretches for over 2 years, so be prepared for example, if you go into a studio and do a sample(Unless they say, "You are perfect for this role and we need to look no further, which rarely happens) This year: to wait from 2007 to 2009 before you'll get a call.

Also: A Common misconception is the pay for Voiceovers: They're not as rich as you think they are, truth be told Anime in North America is not NEARLY as popular as it is in Japan, There is something called the North American Actor's Guild, which is basically a corperate conglomerate which sanction's pay(Currently, as of Nebraskon 2007) The Going Rate of Voice Actors(In Anime) According to Tiffany Grant(Whom has been a VA Since 1994) is 65.00(American).

Now you may think that this is quite abit of money for only an hour's work(but literally, you are only doing about 5 hours of work Per Month(Not Per Day, Not Per Week) Per MONTH, so let us add up that you are only making $325.00 A Month(Which contrary to most anime fan's belief's of "VA's Must be Rich): You can not live off of and will need a second job.

To my Knowledge: Tiffany Grant Also Sells Real Estate, so there you have it, moving along! I find it amazing Alone: Just how much work as I said earlier, goes into making a series

First you have the Casting Call(Which if you are in the Dallas Area and are an Anime Fan, is Kinda like American Idol, you'll go in, do a sample for them, and leave) Or: If you're fortunate enough to have the money, simply do a Demotape(Which can cost upwards of $1000 to be done professionally) Then, if you are lucky enough, and ONLY if you are lucky enough

Do you get to be in a Studio, you will then work on something known as Foley(Things like, Gunshots, Footsteps on the Ground) and other various sound effects, which have to be done right in order to make a series believeable(Not many shows from pre 2000 have Good Foley which honestly: takes away from the whole atmosphere)

After That: You will begin recording your line's, and if you're working with Monica Rial, hear ALOT of the word "Crap!" on your outtakes section of your DVD's(if I knew Monica she'd hit me for that one)

all and all: it takes several months to release the DVD's of something(An Interesting conversation was had between myself and Tryco about the slowness of the release of "Solty Rei" - an older title which just got liscenced by Funimation it could even take several years, as knowing most companies there will be a few snags on the product line or even sometimes on a deadline for a product to come out.

Prime Examples of this would be about 10 months ago when the HIGHLY anticipated release of "Final Fantasy: Advent Children" was FINALLY finished after about 6 rollbacks of dates due to incompletion. However, I having seen the finished product honestly believe it is worth the wait.

As I have said before I've been a fan of Anime for 15 years - I'm not saying that makes me more of an authority to speak on something than someone else, what I am saying is I probably have seen alot more than someone whom was starting say oh, only a year ago(Mind you my experience includes what I saw on TV BEFORE I got into collecting).

From what I've seen, alot of people in the Anime World can let you know five roles of these following people

Megumi Hashiyabara
Aya Hisakawa
Maaya Sakamoto
Chisa Yokoyama
Houko Kuwashima

knowing these roles being huge Sub Fans( and I know many whom can list off the top of their head, the roles that these ladies have
done)

Yet for those of you whom have not seen a Dub or refuse to because of the lack of keeping to the Japanese

I defy you for me (WITHOUT using Wikipedia) To list me Five Roles of the following

Tiffany Grant
Monica Rial
Christopher Patton
Wendee Lee
Or Greg Ayers

If you can't do it, I don't blame you at all: It's extremely hard: But that to me shows me just how imballanced the watching of the Dub is compared to the Sub in my honest opinion.

For those of you whom were discouraged by "What it takes to get into the business" from above: Fear Not

Greg Ayers for Example was and Still IS: A huge Anime Fan and himself admits to getting in a car and driving quite a long distants just to hear Rachael Lillis(Misty from Pokemon Fame) Sing the Jigglypuff Song(For whom she also did the voice)


Still not Convinced? Mandy Clark or Tomo Takino from the Azumanga Daioh series: Was Originally a Fan Dubber before she got into the prospect of doing Voice Acting in Dallas Texas for ADV Films. - these two are like a shining beacon of hope for a regular run of the mill anime fan who aspires to be a voiceover in their favorite shows, so while it may be hard, it is not impossible so don't give up.

I hope now, that after reading this you will realize that it is not the "Show" or the English Language Track which butchers the show

but the network which does it. as a good 95 % of DVD's which are released are uncut and unedited unless it says "as seen on(Name of Network here)

So if you're bored? go out, pick up a DVD and Give a Dub a Chance.

Thank you for taking the time to read this! ^_^

For those of you wondering? - I was extremely bored when I wrote this and did research on it

If you read all of this, I for one am impressed. Even if you despise dubs no matter what, you have to give her credit for the amount of research she did. Any comments or whatever will be appreciated.
 
Good job on the essay.

Grades:Formatting: C All that red text is bad for the eyes. However, the paragraph structure is sound.Content: A Due to bad formating, I didn't really read it. However, it seems y'have a lot into this so I'll give benefit of the doubt. EDIT: OK, I skimmed the essay while scrolling up. Y'got substance. Proof that any retarded topic can be written up with a bit of brains.Accuracy: C Well, I'm not sure on the accuracy of your information. See Citation.Conciseness: D Very wordy. Writing like that, I rip up in Wiki and choose better words.Citation: F You have none. Barring, this is a persuasive essay. Some citation to your facts would be nice.Spelling/Grammar: B Due to formatting, I can't really skim for any of those. But there's bound to be a few errors in that department. Just too lazy to look. For the most part, looks good.Overall: B for effort. DISCLAIMER: Kyuu is NOT a teacher. However, if he is one, that's how he'd grade it.
 
After reading this it sounds like someone got really pissed off and went on a rampage but instead of fighting with mindless words he or she just laid the smackdown! with this Essay ... not bad ...good read

8.3/10 could have been better if my eyes didn't bleed out...
 
no more desu just yet, idk if i buy my anime i listen to it more in eng than subed but if i download it,it has to ber subed otherwise i wont watch it but its not a bad essay
 
...If you hadn't stated that you preferred Dubs, I would have never guessed by the way you spoke about them...

(can I have the last 7 minutes of my life back?)
j/king
It wasn't actually that bad, and I can appreciate the time you spent doing that.
 
My friend respects dubs for the dedication and hardwork it takes to make dubs. I prefer both because you shouldn't be biased.
 
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