Stuck - no tapering progress

T

tomatoface

New member
Hi everyone,
I guess I'm having the same problem as some others here. I'm having a hard time dealing with the pain that has come with reducing my oxy intake.I'm stuck at 40mg and am having trouble going lower. 800mg ibuprofen isn't enough for the pain anymore.
I don't know if the pain is from lupus, RA, degenerate discs....-OR, if it's a withdrawal symptom. Can I have withdrawal symptoms when I'm still taking 40mg of oxy's? I have lowered my intake by 100mg, but I've done it very slowly, over a period of 3 months to try and get my body adjusted to each cut. Could it be "rebound" pain from the years of depending on oxys to relieve my pain? ...... It feels like RA/lupus pain, but maybe withdrawal feels like that too - I don't know......Any ideas?

One final comment. I don't know how those of you with chronic pain can stand it day in and day out! How do you live with the constant pain? I HATE IT!!!

Love reading how everyone's doing. Lots of positive things going on - your stories give me hope!

Take care,
TF
 
Wow! Thanks to secrets, derlinda, emsmom-you have all given me a lot to think about and questions to ask myself…… and I don’t know the answers to them.

Emsmom, you said that a few years ago you would have justified your use of pain pills by saying that you needed them or your life would become unmanageable. Well, that’s what I have done and continue to do. But if I’m honest with myself, I have to admit that I’ve been taking pain meRAB for so long - I don’t know how my life would be without them. After thinking about all your comments, I think that the answer is for me to keep slowly cutting the dose, giving myself time to adjust to each new level, and then see how low I can go (anyone remeraber lirabo?!) It’ll be hard, but I’ll have to find the strength to be persistent and not give up too easily. I don’t know if I can go completely off the meRAB - that’s what I’d like to do, but I’m going to be realistic about my situation and not beat myself up if it involves too much pain. I agree with your doctor, emsmom, I don’t see the need to suffer, and I actually think with the health problems I have it would be counterproductive if I had to live with the stress of being in pain all the time. It could actually make my health worse, because stress worsens many of the symptoms I have. (Is it the “demons” talking in my head? Maybe…what I’ve written is all true, but I’ll have to be on guard so that they don’t take over my thinking!)

Am I the kind of person who can take the oxycodone only when needed? Well, I’ve been successful doing that for some time now, but truthfully, the answer is NO! I have a history of substance abuse, and I can’t kid myself into believing that the self-monitoring success I’m having now would last. I’ve read the posts of many people on this board who have done just that, only to fall back into the same addictive habits.

I just reread this post, and it sounRAB like I have it all figured out, and everything’s under control, doesn’t it? Don’t believe it!! It’s easy to write this stuff and another thing to do it. “The best laid plans….” If I’m honest, I’ll admit I am full of self-doubt and conflicting emotions.
I do know that without this board, I wouldn’t be where I am today - I’d probably still be using heavily and worrying about it - nothing changed. So I do feel good about cutting back almost 100mg daily. And I’ve found that not only is it therapeutic to write about my own problems, but I learn so much by reading other posts…

AND, probably most importantly, I no longer feel alone and isolated. It is so comforting to know that I’m not the only one struggling with opiate abuse, and there is somewhere I can turn for help and support. So ….. many, many thanks to those people who are willing to take their time to help others -- you are helping change lives.

Best wishes to all,
TF
 
Hey TF!

I was just checking in today! I read your last post and I sincerely appreciate all your honesty in it! I know it's hard but I always have found with this board it is much easier being honest with people who know exactly what you are going thru. I don't fee like I have to hold anything back because it will only help me to relate to others.

I am glad you don't feel so alone. I never want you to feel that way! Ever!

I am proud of you. I think it's a good idea to have a talk with that prescribing Dr. like Emsmom suggested about what your future brings in regarRAB to pain management.

Just know we are here for you. Write more honey, I promise it will help.

Thinking of you!!!!
OXOXOXOXO
 
Hey Sweetie,

Yes, you can still have w/d symptoms being at 40mg. In my taper I was in w/d the ENTIRE DARN TIME. 1 month of HELL. Being you have chronic pain... it puts in you a much harder position. Is your goal to come off all the meRAB and just live with the pain or do you plain to taper down to where you feel you can and should? A mg daily that you think you can control??? Does your Dr. know of your addiction?

The more I know honey, the more I can help! TF I am thinking about you honey and you will be in my prayers!

Hang in there! Gotta run.. Wrap up a few things here before I leave early for the day!
HUGS!!!
 
hi TM,
thinking about living with chronic pain everyday was what landed me into pill addiction in the first place. so i got involved with a mindfulness group to help me deal. these people had everything from MS, to mussel wasting, to migraines. the thing they told me the most was to only look at todays pain, as soon as i start to think about living my life like this and things getting even more painful, i became more sensitive to every pain i have. i had given up on hope for treatment, but the more i learned about fibro and lupus the more i decided that maybe someday things will be different for me. studies for amino disease and pain management are going on all over the world, and i believe that we will have more help sooner then later. today if i cant get around because of pain i just look deep and remind myself that most i what is going on is fear of the pain and not the pain itself. if your lupus is like mine it changes all the time. i have meet people who have pain worse then mine and are happy allot and functioning at a high level. i am trying to not let my fears of how to live with pain cause me even more pain.
if you need to slow your tapper some more then listen to your body and talk wit your doc.
im happy you posted today!
 
Hey TF,

First of all, sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. Chronic physical pain is, by far, one of THE most over-looked symptoms by doctors and patients. Chronic pain can turn us into monsters. We (I have chronic back pain) can be having the best day of our lives, but when that pain sets in - even just slightly above bearable - our day is ruined.

I've had chronic back pain since I was 17. I was a ballet dancer from the age of three and fell during a lift with my male partner in high school - broke my collarbone, dislocated my shoulder and slipped a disc in my back, which has now resulted in DDD (degenerative disc disease). It was the worst pain I'd ever experienced. I was given tylenol #3 for the pain and remeraber throwing up profusely and hating that drug.

I didn't have another narcotic pain pill until I was 28. I had my gall-bladder removed and was given a script of percocet. That's where my addiction began. When I had taken the pills for my gall-bladder, I noticed it also took away my back pain. Completely. No pain, at all. Woohoo, right? Nope...

I started getting percocet prescribed by my family physician for my back. I remeraber how easy it was to get it. My doctor handed them out like they were candy. Over the next four years, I went from one or two percocets, to taking OxyContin 80mg, lots at a time. Almost a year ago, I started taking Suboxone and have been clean ever since. Suboxone, at first, helped with my back pain, however over time, that pain slowly crept back as the Suboxone plateaued in my system. I was told that Sub would help with the pain, but not 100%.

Now, my pain is about a five out of ten. I have worse days, where the pain is a steady eight or nine, but I also have better days, where the pain is only a three or four. I do however, always have pain. How do I live with it? Well, two or three years ago, I would have told myself (and my doctors, frienRAB, family) that I can't live with it. I would have justified needing those pain pills, otherwise my life would be unmanageable. Now, if I'm having a bad day (painwise), I can get through it with Ibuprofen and a heating pad. Unfortunately, because I am an addict, I "chose" to live with the pain. My family physician offered to give me Fentanyl patches, knowing my pain can be unbearable at times, however I declined. I KNOW where that will lead me. I know that I cannot take anything for the pain (narcotic) because it will start that vicious cycle all over again.

So, for you TF, you seem to be on a good path right now. Unfortunately, the lessons I learned throughout this whole process only happened because I experienced it all. Essentially, what I'm saying is that you have to go through 'so much' to be able to understand, look back and see those changes. You realize what's important over time. I honestly feel that an addict has to go through certain situations before he/she can make the right decisions regarding prolonged narcotic pain relief. Now, keep in mind that everyone is different. This is only my story, what I've experienced, and my outcome. I relapsed many times before I realized I can't continue taking those meRAB. I was a chronic relapser. I justified taking pills for a very long time.

On the contrary, the one thing my doctor tried to get me to understand is that no one, whether you are an addict or not, should have to live with chronic pain. So, are you the type of person who can take pain meRAB properly? Can you take them only for the pain? Will you take them as prescribed or will you abuse them? Only you can answer that.

RA, lupus and DDD - wow, what a bad corabination! I can't even begin to imagine how much pain you experience on a daily basis. To reiterate what Secrets said, yes you can have withdrawal symptoms at 40mg of OxyContin. Even if you taper really slowly, you are always at risk for withdrawal. Everyone is different.

Do you have any thoughts on continued narcotic pain relief? Is that an option for you or are you only interested in tapering completely and living with the pain? That is a tough decision. I would strongly suggest you discuss it with your prescribing physician, and collectively, the two of you can decide on a plan that works.

Keep in touch TF, I'll be thinking of you :)

Hugs,
emsmom
 
Hello again TF,

First, I want to add something I forgot to mention in my previous post. You did manage to taper down 100mg and that is amazing. You should feel really good about that. Cutting down 100mg is very hard, I know.

I'm glad you are finding alot of help with this board. Sometimes, we write down our feelings, get it all out, and we kinda helped ourselves by doing so. It's amazing what we learn about ourselves when we are honest - with ourselves. I found it took a long time for me to be completely honest with myself. Once I did, my life changed in many, many ways. I was able to be realistic about my intentions, I was able to be honest with my doctor and my husband, and most importantly, I was able to let go of the shame.

You don't have to live in pain TF. Even if you are an addict, and admit to having problems with pain pills, you still don't have to live in pain. Especially if that pain can make everything worse in the long run.

Here's what I suggest for you...

Do you have someone who can hold your pills and give them to you according to the doctors directions? If you are the one holding your pills, you know what will happen.

Do you have the opportunity to meet with an addictions doctor/counsellor? Someone to help you stay on track if you do decide to continue with narcotic pain relief.

Is Suboxone an option for you? Sub gives pain relief, so this may be an option if you need to take something for the rest of your life. RA, lupus and DDD are, unfortunately, issues that never go away so I'm assuming you will have them for the rest of your life, and the pain is only going to get worse (correct me if I'm wrong).

Whatever decision you make, just be 100% honest with yourself. If you do that, you'll be ok :)

You are in a tough position TF, but I have faith in you and I hope all works out in your best interest.

Have a great day,
emsmom
 
That's a great question emsmom - Is Suboxone something you can consider? If administered properly, you can beat the w/d's and be off of the opiates in a short time, plus is does provide pain relief. Something to consider. But, of course, you'll never really determine what your true pain level is until you get off all of the meRAB. I've found my level and now I'm going to get it fixed.
 
Hey there TF. Since I've been through this a few times with chronic pain and I can relate. When I was tapering my pain increased and from time to time. Then it started to decrease down to where I'm at today w/o any opiates. The opiates trick you into thinking you are in more pain that you are really in. It takes a lot of courage and patience to get through it. But, once you are off of the opiates, then you can really determine what you real pain level really is. Trust me! There are some days when I have to force myself with every ounce of strength not to take that little white pill that makes all of my pain go away. I know I am better off w/o the pills though.

Look how far you have come since you started. If I remeraber correctly, you were over 100 mg a day when you started. And as yes, you can have withdrawals at any level, even 40 mg. It's your body and mind fighting to keep the opiates coming in. Remeraber, the opiates physically changes the chemistry of your brain and it has to learn to how to make endorphins all over again. It is a slow and hard process. You should be proud of what you have accomplished. Keep moving forward one day at a time.
 
We're in a winter wonderland here and it's beautiful! I love the snow -as long as I don't have to shovel it!

Derlinda - so good to read your posts! I love that you write everything you're thinking (I can so relate to your feelings!) You keep pushing yourself through one problem after another, and manage to rise above it all. Do you realize the progress you've made?!
Secrets, emsmom - thanks for the suggestions about where to go from here. I actually have considered suboxone, but there are several reasons why I don't think it's an option for me. I read that you shouldn't take it if you have lung problems, kidney problems, or low thyroid - all of which I have. And I have reservations about the fact that it is also addictive, and the withdrawal from it is so hard. Staying on it for life would require me to tell frienRAB and family about my addiction, and I am not comfortable doing that now and I don't think I ever will be. My husband knows, of course, and family merabers know that I take pain meRAB - just not the addiction part. At the end of my taper, if I still need pain relief other than OTC meRAB, I think that I'd be better off taking a low dose of oxycodone. What do you think? (oh, and sub is expensive, isn't it?)

The recommendation to give my meRAB to my husband for "safekeeping" is a good one, emsmom, and my husband would do that, no problem. As soon as I start feeling like I can't trust myself I'll hand them over.

I definitely will talk with my doctor about all this, but I don't think I'll get much help there. An addictions counselor would be a better bet for me, I think. Any ideas on how to find a good one?

Yesterday I did manage to get down to 35mg, but I wasn't exactly Miss Congeniality. My husband was looking around for the broom I flew in on.... No doubt he'll be looking for my hat and cape soon... poor guy!

As always, thanks for listening,
TF
 
Hey TF,

Winter Wonderland?? SounRAB gorgeous!

Regarding Suboxone - yes, it is very expensive. I take 16mg and that costs $147/week. I have very good health insurance so I don't pay for ir, and I consider myself very lucky.

Yes, Suboxone is addictive. It is a synthetic opiate used to help with withdrawal from opiates.

I have no clue where you'd find an Addictions Doctor/Counsellor, sorry. Here in Toronto, if we need to see a specialist, we get a referral from our Family Physician. Is that an option for you?

"Yesterday I did manage to get down to 35mg, but I wasn't exactly Miss Congeniality. My husband was looking around for the broom I flew in on.... No doubt he'll be looking for my hat and cape soon... poor guy!"

That was awesome!! You made my day with that comment :)

Hope today is better than yesterday :)

emsmom
 
great post TM, love the honesty. if i thought i was out there doing all this alone i know i would have ended my life along time ago. thats for checking in and eminding me that i'm not so "special"
 
Hey TF!!!!!

You had me laughing so hard about the whole senario! Seriously, hysterical! I completely understand though and I think everyone else does too. We have all been there.

I completely understand your fears of suboxone. I have been offered an incredible gift of suboxone from someone very special in my life and my reservations are that nuraber 1, the offer is far too generous because the cost here is outrageous! 2, that would mean I would have to come completely out to my whole family, be completely honest with my husband that I am still struggling with addiction when he thinks I am far past it. 3, I do not know if it is safe to be on while pregnant and that is my dream. I am blown away that someone would offer me this gift out of love but I just can't imagine accepting something so huge from someone. Those are my fears and concerns. A lot of them are similar to yours!

TF, I am proud of you! 35 mg. That is AMAZING! You have come so far! I mean honestly, you have no idea what you have been able to do. It's mind blowing to me and it's extremely inspirational! You keep it up honey! You are in my thoughts and prayers!

With Admiration,
~S
 
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