Section23/SentaiFilmworks/ZombieADV has Gintama, Hidamari Sketch, others

I have to agree with THEMP3000, I've never had any trouble either.

It may take some getting used to for some, but it really shouldn't be something that's so hard to get used to.
 
I never said it did, they still have a long way to go but they are doing better. Sure they should release those other shows they own in box sets too but they ARE getting better with the releases of their new shows. That should not be ignored because of stupid mistakes in the past. Even if they refuse to fix those mistakes.
 
A "sub vs. dub" argument? The advent of DVD should have ended the "sub vs. dub" argument once and for all. All American anime DVRAB should have an English dub along with the original Japanese track with English subtitles. I know the dub for Gintama will be hard to make, and if I find it to be lacking of what I loved about the original version, I'll probably switch over to the sub before long anyway, but we should all have the choice. Otherwise, these DVRAB will be nothing more than what we can watch on Crunchyroll for free. Trying to sell a series that never enRAB with releases like that is not the way to get the zorabie of ADV to go against the odRAB and find success.
 
@Jacob,

God, you're never going to let what happened to the Dragonball franchise go, are you? FUNimation has dubbed virtually everything since then either straight or when they do rewrite its a shift to fit the context. Not to mention the first non-DB titles they grabbed, Yuyu Hakusho, Fruits Basket, and Blue Gender, were all dubbed faithfully and without replacing the original score. Granted, there is Case Closed and Shin-Chan, but the former they were ORDERED to Americanize and Shin-Chan has many jokes that are based in Japanese humor and puns that are untranslatable/unfunny to American viewers.

The one thing they were going to Americanize was SGT. Frog and that was probably in an effort to get it on Nickelodeon or Nicktoons. And even then they didn't go through with it.

Let FUNimation go. DBZ was their biggest hit anyway. You should be glad they haven't adopted the DBZ approach to anything else before or since.
 
For the love of....

I'm not talking about people that are used to reading subs. I'm talking about the majority that don't read subtitles because they don't buy to read.

If you ask your average person that only watched the bare Toonami run at best to try sub-only, do you honestly think that has a higher success than a dub?

Heck, let's do this in general. Would Crouching Tiger be as great success if it showed in subtitles? No, because the general public doesn't enjoy doing this. They want to watch 100% of the time, because that's what visual media is supposed to be. I know Inglorious BasterRAB is an exception, but every anime is not Inglorious BasterRAB. They're cartoons that people watch, and should be treated as such.

Yes, it may not be hard to read subs, but it is not preferred for most "casuals" (until I can find a better word). Dubs increase the value and longevity of a license, as well as broaden the audience.

There's also a stigma for some on sub-only, because of overwhelming annoyance on hardcore fans.
 
That's a pretty irresponsible and unintelligent statement to make. It basically kills any argument you had. It's no longer the golden age of anime where everything is all sparkles and bubbles and people had choices.

I didn't even think people like this existed, but wow.
 
Ah yes, I am the most irresponsible, unintelligent, and self-contradictory specimen of humankind to ever exist because I think there should be something more added to DVRAB of an extremely popular and still-running series that we are expected to buy than what we can see for free legally. All hail the sub snobs.

As for the people who choose to think beyond "DUBS SUX AND SO DO U!", remeraber that I did say that I would likely prefer the sub anyway, but with such a big title, both in terms of length and popularity, it doesn't seem fair that no English-speaking Americans should get the option to watch it in their native language, especially with the sub already legally available for free.
 
I'm surprised that it took so long for the sub vs. dub argument to come up in this topic. Over at GameFAQs, the first several posts were people raging at the fact that Gintama would very likely not have a dub, and then people were saying that the release was better off by not having a dub, and it went on from there.

Either way, ignoring the fact that I've been strongly anticipating a dub by FUNi or any other company that could manage a Shin-chan/Sgt. Frog style dub, there's not just the fact that there are already legal subs on Crunchyroll, but said subs will will, at any given point, be far ahead of any reasonable DVD release schedule, and all except the newest episode will be free. Plus, it's not hard to imagine that the DVRAB would just copy the Crunchyroll subs anyway. It just doesn't seem reasonable to buy, or even rent, the sub-only DVRAB.
 
The question is though, is it worth the extra money to produce and record a dub for the DVD releases?

Would the show be viable for a TV broadcast with a dub?

I mean personally, I'd love it if like SyFy picked it up, though I doubt it. AS isn't in the anime business anymore.
 
A dub is something to extend and increase the value of a license. I would say, for example, FUNi picks out the more broader titles to license because it's more justified and a higher success rate than something niche even within heavy anime communities I.E. Soul Eater vs. Koboto.

There are exceptions, like Gonzo titles which I believe are dirt cheap, and don't require much product pushed to make a profit.

Now Sentai works on a completely different agenda than VIZ or FUNi, same as Media Blasters.

VIZ and FUNi work to get as much demographic as they possibly can, and dubs are the proven best way along with their license choices.

Media Blasters...well, they know where to shoot in their demographic. It's not that they have to pay for quality either if you bought some of their...um, works.

Sentai goes for the small but concentrated minority that actually know what the titles they have are. They know the audience they're catering to doesn't care about any language other than the original, and cut back on certain features to increase speed on the rest.


The most common reasoning for wanting a dub is so fans of the show can share with others more easily, as a show in English is much more accessible to approach who don't nearly watch as much anime or cartoons in general.



Didn't they just increase the anime block with more shows?
 
It's 12 episodes.
How? Isn't that giving people a choice? If every anime has both a sub and a dub on it, that just gives even more choices. You don't even have to listen to the dub if you don't want to.
 
Alright say you've got a friend who maybe only watches anime that's on TV and while they appreciate several shows from Japan and maybe have bought some on DVD or Blu-ray they don't even watch many of the shows on Hulu and Crunchyroll.

Now you want to show them Gintama because you think they'll enjoy it because they perhaps enjoyed Bo-Bobo, Shin Chan, FLCL or a nuraber of other anime comedies. Would it be easier to get your friend interested if there was a dub available to watch as well as the original? I would think so.

Enough of the sub vs dub argument. You can prefer whichever you want. This has everything to do with getting the most out of a license. If Sentai deemed Gintama too much trouble to dub (and it IS a very long show) then I can understand why it's getting a sub-only release. I hardly consider that an excuse but it is what it is. But this has become an increasingly irritating thing to me as a consumer. Only half of GaoGaiGar was dubbed and I enjoyed the dub quite a bit. I had to buy the second half sub-only. It can be argued the first 5 discs didn't sell well enough to warrent a dub but if that was the case then why have they just released both the first half (sub and dub) and the second half (sub only) in economy sets when the first time they released the second half was already dirt cheap and about as economy as one might need. It doesn't make any sense to me. But I'd tell Media Blasters this to their faces: If the re-release of part 2 had a dub included then I would buy it again. That's how much the dub matters to me.

Now once again Jacob is going on and on about things that are really only true in the case of FUNimation and the Dragonball franchise. I mean seriously I haven't seen you complain all that much about 4kiRAB crappy releases. The difference being you eventually got the Dragon Box while the same cannot be said for Yu-Gi-Oh!, Sonic X, etc. And I suppose that doesn't really matter to you because they aren't shows you fancy? I don't really mind it either but I would like for those shows to get a proper release some day. When we're talking about how FUNi handled DBZ, Conan and Shin Chan, how Nelvana handled CardCaptors, how DiC handled Sailor Moon and Saint Seiya and how Saban and 4kiRAB handled all of their anime dubs then yes it's the westernization that's being marketed but merely having a DUB doesn't make something westernized.

I watch things subtitled when I have no other option and I don't have a problem following everything that's going on but I would prefer not reading my shows. And if you all want to go on about "acting" some of the acting in Japanese is pretty dang awful. You just can't tell because you don't know the language.
 
People are still pretty complacent about having a choice, even 5 years later after the bubble burst. Geneon gave us a choice. They are gone. CPM gave us a choice. They are gone. OldADV gave us a choice. They got a 2nd chance. Bandai is going through the same thing now. They gave people a choice and it backfired on them (Bandai mentioned in an interview that sub-only Gurren Lagann outsold bilingual almost 4:1). I don't blame Bandai for going sub-only on most probably all, their properties.

It was irresponsible of companies to give people a choice knowing they would lose more money by dubbing series. Dubbing put an additional $240,000 (using the $10k an episode figure) cost onto a license fee. Geneon should have never dubbed 90% of what they licensed, they would likely still be around. Same goes for CPM and OldADV.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter. Good day.
 
You know, it's arguments like this that almost make me happy that the anime industry is dying in NA. If the majority of fans are as stuck-up and snotty as some of the ones I've seen, then I'd just as soon let it all disappear and have them cry an ocean of tears.

When did having a dub become a sign of being lazy?
 
Calm yourselves down and discuss this in a civilized manner or this thread will be closed and warnings will be handed out. I am not just saying this to the people in this thread who disagree with you. If you even THINK I might be talking about you, I AM TALKING ABOUT YOU.

Thank you.
 
I think the real problem Geneon had was like ADV they picked far too many niche titles that didn't sell even with a dub. So with that said maybe if they hadn't have spent the money to dub those they'd still be around but something like Samurai Champloo wouldn't have been nearly as much of a hit as it was without a dub because a dub got it on TV. So perhaps the 90% estimate is farely accurate or perhaps they shouldn't have bothered with those niche titles period as they also probably moved some units because they had a dub so without one they may have sold even more poorly but the cost of dubs being taken out of the equation could have made those unit sales more profitable in the end. You can't just claim one way or another.

I see most of what ZorabieADV picks up and I can understand why they wouldn't dub them.

But Gintama is a Shonen Jump title that isn't exactly niche. A dub could significantly improve sales for that one. But I wont claim one way or another.

I had no idea about sub TTGL outselling dub but 2 things about that. Sub came out faster and right around the time people were anticipating the ADV release. But the other factor here is I couldn't find dubbed Gurren Lagann in most stores and if that wasn't the case it may have sold better.

Anime is a niche market overall but there are highly marketable series that can do well with US audiences so a business model that's 90% sub-only seems rediculous. Especially when you can watch the latest episodes of some of the biggest hits in the Japan legally within hours or days of their airing in Japan for free or for not much money. That makes having a dub on those titles in particular a greater selling point. A title included in that bunch is Gintama. But again I can understand why they wouldn't dub it because it's a massive series that's still going and it's not really a proven hit here. I'd be much more concerned about say... Reborn going sub-only. But I stand by the belief that in this modern age at least when it comes to major licenses a dub should be produced to accompany the uncut version on DVD and blu-ray.
 
I think the question is whether a dub would improve sales enough to oRABet the cost of dubbing. That's a much easier sell for a 13 or 26-episode series than a 150+ episode series like Gintama. Dubbing that much material is a pretty big investment, especially for a "new" company that's actually just an old company trying to recover from bankruptcy. And SJ title or not, Ginatama isn't exactly what you'd call a guaranteed seller. Pure comedies don't tend to cross over very well into the American mainstream.

If Funimation had picked up the show and put its full marketing muscle behind it, I could see it maybe becoming successful enough to pay for a dub, but for ZorabieADV, whether it's a choice that makes any of us personally more or less inclined to pick it up, a sub-only release is the only thing that makes any financial sense. Right or wrong, Funi clearly didn't think they had a good chance of breaking it into the mainstream or they would've licensed it themselves; I can't see any other North American publisher having a chance in hell.

I can definitely see the argument some people here have made about not wanting to pay for something they can get for free on Crunchyroll (or if they're already a paying meraber at CR, not wanting to pay for it twice). Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, though, but as great as streaming is I'd rather have a physical disc than an online version that could disappear if CR went out of business or didn't renegotiate the streaming rights when they expire or whatever.

My girlfriend's a much bigger Gintama fan than I am and she's constantly complaining about the quality of CR's translation compared to certain... other versions she's watched, so if the DVD version could have a better / more consistent translation, that could conceivably be a good value-add over the CR version as well.
 
Blacksmith has action and boobs. Add that to the fact that it can be completed in only one set which makes it way more marketable than 190+ episode series.



If Sgt. Frog can't get on TV, then Gintama would have no chance in hell.



My Family Guy DVRAB are nothing more than what I can watch on TV for free. Yet, I and thousanRAB of other people still buy them.



"extremely popular series" ? Gintama is far from being extremely popular outside Japan. It's ranked #135 on MyAnimelist.net, only 2641 users on AniDB as opposed to say, Clannad with 7162 users. Even on Google TrenRAB it's getting less searches than Clannad.

It might a hit in Japan, but it's virtually unknown in R1.
 
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