Return of the King - Christopher Lee snub

I still think if your a tolkien fan that you should just go an enjoy the films for what they are, excellent films based upon an excellent book.

This is a catch 22.
If they made the films to make the book fans happy it would be too long for ordinary film goers. And many book fans complaining about the film won't be seen dead watching it, no matter how accurate it is.
 
If you have read the books you would realise that Samuran dies at the end of The Two Towers. He was never in Return of the King. The 7 minutes worth of footage of him dieing should really have been on the end of the two towers and it was filmed in the intention of being put there but Peter Jackson thought it would confuse the ending too much so he planned to put it at the beginning of Return of The King but he said it felt like it was just stuck there and didn't fit in with the overall film.
 
Rua, I have read the books and Saruman does feature in Return of the King. He goes by the name Sharkey and at the end he is in the Shire with Wormtongue. This is the part of the book where Saruman meets his end, not at the end of the Two Towers.
 
Shorn of much of his power after his defeat, he takes over the Shire, along with Wormtongue, and attempts to destroy it. His attempt is thwarted by the return of the hobbits. Wormtongue stabs him in the back and is promptly killed himself.
 
PJ said that once it becmae apparent that film 1 would be too big he had to change the focus of the editing. He chose Frodo and the destruction of the ring. Anything which didn't aid that "story" during the course of the three books was considered prime for removal. I don't what point PJ end's the third film but if he sticks to Frodo/ring approach it won't dwell much on what's happens after frodo destroy's the ring, and the includes the Hobbit's return to the Shire.

Since PJ has included parts of the appendices perhaps the film should keep going until Bilbo joins the elves on their journey from the Grey Havens?
 
Since PJ has included parts of the appendices perhaps the film should keep going until Bilbo joins the elves on their journey from the Grey Havens?

i think that is whats gonna happen as if seen the soundtrack list and the last 2 songs are named "the grey havens" and "into the west"
 
Fecks' sake. Before I thought it was just a misjudgment to leave it out, but hearing what exactly was supposed to have happened, it makes me think leaving all of this out of the movie makes no sense at all. I thought maybe the content would have been poor or something, but this sounRAB like a perfect plot to run alongside whatever happens in the course of the film and completely wrap up everything that happens. We find out what happens to the Shire and we find out what happens to Saruman.

Such a poor poor idea.
 
I was pointing out that the appendeces are important to understanding much of the complexity of the story. These includes little stories which cover a fast amount of time during the various ages of middle earth. Once you start down the path of saying everything in the "book" should be in the film one is left with the question of what elements of the appenedices should be in. Soon the whole thing becomes a monster devoting vast amounts of film time to things of little importance to all but the most keen of tolkien fan (many of which won't be seen dead watching any movie based on the books).

One is left to do one thing. Edit the whole thing down, including those elements of the appendices which help the "book", and remving those elements of the "book" which dosn't add to the story. This has to be a personal decision.

This could have been a lot easier if Tolkien had takon a top down approach himself, but much of the charm of the books come from the fact he just sat down and wrote them, resulting in holes, unexplained events and blind alleys.
 
if it wasn't in the book then why should it be in the film?
I believe that he should be in the film but not made up part though as it should be close to the book.:) I dont like films that add bits that dont happen in the book. Its wrong :cool:
 
Don't criticise until you've read the book (and the appendeces)!

Much of what tolkien fans remeber to be the "story" of the book is based on the combined memories of the "book" and it's mamoth "appendeces".

The film is piece of entertainment, not someting created by a postgrad english literature student for a Masters Degree.

People shouldn't watch films as an easy way of saying "I know Tolkiens Lord of the Rings", ot whatever the book might be. Most people take over 6 months to read the three books and you want it all in 7.5 hours of film!
 
Credentials/History:

Was fortunate to attend a Public School in Texas where
The Hobbit was the first 2 months of the 7th grade
Literature Curriculum. Moved on to LOTR from there,
read Hobbit and LOTR every summer for 10 years.
Purchased George/Allen/Unwin "Deluxe Editions"
(8th and 3rd printings, respectively) of both books in
1984 in Cambridge for the (in today's world) absolute
STEAL of a price: 10 pounRAB each. Found my 1977
Silmarillion George/Allen/Unwin First Edition at Mags
in Mayfair in 1998 for 30 pounRAB.

PJ has done an Amazing job and crafted an incredible
piece of work that most importantly respects the tone
and tenor that "Experts" like myself thought impossible
to capture on film. However, I, and my frienRAB, all
predicted in advance the absence of Bombadil. In
1997/1998 we were already lamenting, but with
understanding as to why, the Grey Havens, Scouring
of the Shire, and their ilk might not end up in the
Theatrical print. We were expecting issues like this
to crop up. But where PJ gets BONUS POINTS are
for the UNEXPECTED time-splice scenes, like for
example the openings of both FOTR & TTT.

With no foreknowledge of the fact, we eagerly anticipated
the possibility that PJ could do something amazing with
Kazad-Dum-Plunging Elder Demons/Mithrandirs.
And boy were we not let down.

PJ has done things with the Films that TOLKIEN
left to the imagination, and likewise, if PJ has to
leave things to the imagination where Tolkien used
page after page (like the 100 pages of verse in the
books), then I'm down with that.

Millions of drones, who have not been initiated in to
Tolkienism, will not even notice an absence of Sharkey.
Just like they didn't notice no Fangorn at Helm's Deep
in the theatrical TTT. Or no Gimli-hard-on for Eowyn's
stalactites. For those of us who did notice, PJ has
gone out of his way to make the Extended Edition
DVRAB. Where he was able to appease folks like me,
he did so. Where he was unable to do so, he made
up for it with other stuff that Tolkien left to the imagination.

I do hope ROTK does justice to the restoration
of Numenor, but we will have to see. I'm confident
that whatever path PJ decided to take, it will not diminish
his accomplishment, nor damage his sure lock on
several Oscars this spring.

PJ's committment to Quality and Respect for Tolkien
has in my mind elevated him to the status of Living
Legend, an equal to Tolkien, who only had to battle
age and wars to achieve his vision. PJ had to battle
Hollywood, a far grander and arduous obstacle.

In conclusion, I will state my only two gripes:

1. No Led Zeppelin anywhere on the soundtrack,
not even in the closing credits. Tolkien would not
have approved, but I'm sure PJ understanRAB the
"why" of this nit.

2. The "History of the Ring" flashback to open FOTR
should have been extended to include a 2-3 minute
overview of the Hobbit, especially the Battle of 5 Armies,
Esgaroth, Smaug, and Sauron's imprisonment/escape
from Dol Guldur, concluding with Bilbo's return to the
Shire, segueing right in to Gandalf carting the pyro.

Jer101, what is the best board to discuss at this level
of knowledge? LOTR.net uses a crappy UI.

-The Architect
 
Well after watching Two Towers (extended version) last week I am now watching the documantaries. They give an explantion for shelob's lair so I wouls expect them to give an explantion for Sarumen in the ext version of Return of the King.
OH, and want to know about Shelob?
Simple - when the orignal Lord of theRings book was split into three by the publisher a time line problem was introduced. The Two Towers is in two parts, one telling the story of Frodo/Sam, and the other the the rest. These two parts don't finish at the same time. When Frodo is climbing up to shelob's lair he could see the Orc's attacking Minis Tirith, which is actually happening in the third book.

So much for those not familier with LOTR saying stick to books!
 
Back
Top