Removing "apps"

TheReader

New member
I have finally lashed out and purchased a T3. Which, naturally, means the T4 should be out any day now. :)

However, being a Hong Kong model, it comes with certain "apps" relating to Chinese character input - two in particular, "CJKOS" and "Pen Pal". I would like to remove them but when I attempt to do so using FileZ the message I receive is "An error prevented the file from beng deleted". Plainly this is not an error but is designed to stop the file's removal.

If I use the "Info" facility to list files, neither appears in the list.

Any suggestions as to how I might rid myself of these meddlesome creatures?
 
Those apps are in ROM, which is why FileZ can't delete them and why they don't show up when you use the Info utility. You need something like JackSprat to delete apps in ROM.
 
I'm a recent port over from WindowsCE to Palm. After a steep learning curve, I'm really starting to appreciate the simplicity and yet very powerful/capable Palm platform (I know...took me a while to see the light :rolleyes: ).

Anyway, the problem outlined in this thread is exactly what I want to do (I have a Chinese Palm as well - M500), and I want to remove the Chinese character app and associated Pen app.

I do understand they are in ROM, but isn't it possible to just remove it from the category lists? Or am I thinking too much in Windows mode (where I could delete the shortcut icon while the app still of course remained on the ROM)?

I've searched the boards pretty well, but must be using the wrong terms because I'm not coming up with much on how to do this.
 
Learning Palm after WindowsCE has not been easy for me or very intuitive at times, but that's okay -- I'm learning.

A utility app is required to hide apps/icons in the launcher. After finding one hack and two separate apps that claim to do it, I discovered that the hack just didn't work on Palm OS 4.1 for whatever reason and the one separate app (I believe it was "Hide 'em" will only hide installed apps and not ROM apps.

However, the third try turned charmed, as the app "Invisible" does just that -- makes whatever app (be it ROM or installed) invisible in the launcher. It's not free, but it's the best $6 I've spent to tidy up my launcher significantly. Here's the link:

http://palmgadget.com/palminvi.html
 
Bad ones.

I wasn't going to reply to the "anti Jack Sprat sentiment," because to be honest it is well founded. Although the problem is a bad flash chip in the T3, installing Jack Sprat HAS CAUSED problems for people, so in that regard SOS is absolutely correct. Whether it's software or a glitch in hardware, "white screen of death" is no good for anyone. The fine points are irrelevant.

As for INVISIBLE, let me tell you that I tried it -- twice. The first time caused consecutive fatals and resetting. Then an "upgrade" became available and I tried that.

Bad results there too. Changing too many items at once will crash the T3. Also, make sure you do not indicate "hide Invisible itself," as well "hide even after reset" or you'll have to reinstall Invisible to put back what you've hidden, and hope that that's possible. It's a small but very INVASIVE application, and I get by by having a separate category for the "junk" called ZDeadZone, so it's last alphabetically. They're "hidden" enough at that point.
Invisible seemed like a terrific idea but caused me problems.

As for Jack Sprat (a real solution to the problem of REMOVAL, if you're willing to "dance with the devil"), I'm one of the "Sprat Lovers;" it worked like a charm for me and I've been using it on two Palms for two years. Beta 3.0beta4 is MUCH more stable than beta 3, which had the problems with the T3 flash chip. The final version is not done yet and I've been checking daily for the last 2.5 months; you might want to wait until then -- but then ALL non-English languages could be removed giving you 4MB of additional "room," should you use JackFlash to access it. I also removed QuickTour, Welcome, RealPlayer, VersaMail, Photos, Calc and other odds and ends, and freed up 10MB - 1.3MB of which I have still free. 55 Applications now running in Flash with NO PROBLEMS. Remember to install "JackSafe" first, and that way after a HARD RESET all those apps will come back just like they were "installed at the factory." It's saved me twice, and results in my having TWO CardBackup files amounting to 8MB TOTAL instead of 26MB.

It is not a game, not really for beginners, and "you have been warned" is actually very appropriate language -- it should come with a warning. Unfortunately, if 2 people don't follow directions or back up properly, they cause a tidal wave of "negative press" which prevents, in my view, qualified users from benefitting.

Even if you were to REMOVE only, using Sprat, and be done with it (not incorporate the flash for other apps, like the UPGRADED Docs2Go and UPGRADED Kinoma), at least your system is cleaner. My reason was Docs2Go was in ROM and the updates went in to RAM, giving me 2 copies. That would now apply to Kinoma Player as well. That's just silly.

For the record, I was one of the ones "stung" by 3.0beta 3 - had to reflash the entire ROM, had to let the battery completely die overnight to force a shutdown, and start all over again. I had purchased the Beta -- and IMMEDIATELY downloaded the next "mostly fixed" beta and did it again. Guess I'm committed to the product. I would NEVER EVER EVER be without it on a handheld of less than 128 MB. If OS6 sports that, well then I'd reconsider -- unless apps are duplicated in ROM and RAM. I just can't stomach that. You should have control over what's on your handheld -- if you don't need the extra languages there should be a facility with which to eradicate them. JackSprat is the only one -- dangerous as it may be -- that has answered that call.
 
I appreciate the info on JackSprat/Flash. I am a HEAVY dinker -- I might just have to try it. I only paid $44 for my Chinese Palm M500 -- if I were to just absolutely kill it, it wouldn't hurt too much.

So far, Invisible has been working well for me though. I guess I'm just way too tidy after using WindowsCE for so long where you have a lot more control over the Start menu, desktop, etc. You also typically have more memory to work with, but you need it for WinCE apps which are rather large compared to Palm.

But here's my common sense question about Jack Flash/Sprat: When I have an empty 64mb SD card laying around (too small to be practical for my digicam now), why would I want to pay $27 just to get a max of 1.7mb of memory back from removing foreign language files and such? Don't get me wrong -- I'd love to dink with this software, but what is the benefit of it over just popping in my SD card and getting 64mb of space?
 
First of all if you're running OS4 then the "OS5 dangers" on the T3 wouldn't hurt you at all. You might even ask Brayder for an older OS4 version - that's bulletproof.

It's all about waste. If you want them (languages) in there, fine. If you have a 64MB card, that's great too -- so did I when I had my M505. I freed up about 2MB on the 505 and used that flash for applications. Yes, you can store them on the card and launch them from the card, but they make a COPY in RAM while being used, so if your 8MB is 7/8 full, you've got less than 1MB to play with REGARDLESS of whether you launch an app from the card or not. It still needs RAM to work.

My T3 came with 52MB useable. I have a 256MB card with 60MB of "stuff" on it. But I'm running over 60 programs and have 93% free on the handheld because 9MB of those apps are in flash. Otherwise I'd be down to 70% or less. 93% free on RAM, plus 180MB left on the card. AND I STILL am looking for ways to "thin it out."

I also like the whole hard-reset safety net thing. ANYONE with a Palm should have a backup on their SD Card. If you do that, and let's say you've got 6MB on the handheld out of 8MB, that's 6MB on the Card, right?. OK. Well, if 2MB are in flash, only 4MB goes on the card - leaving roughly 56MB useable (assuming 60 out of 64 is "free" to begin with).

If I had all my apps in RAM, I would be taking up about 26MB of SD Card space just for backups (I do 2, one at 5PM daily and the other at 5AM). As it is now, only 8MB is needed out of 256 for backup files - and they will restore what JackSafe doesn't in about 20 seconds. I can do a hard reset and have back to PERFECT in under one minute, start to finish, with no PC HotSync.

Now I know you've got OS4 I'm REALLY convinced you'd benefit. The argument could be made with 64MB t3s (52MB useable!) that you've got enough room not to worry. With 8MB on an M500, there's no question I'd incorporate flash.

You need either the new JackSprat or see if Brayder have the old one lying around (hell, they might even "comp" you) - you don't need the OS5 version until you're using OS5. I know that the OS4 stuff is secure and sound, because there was no "flash chip glitch" in that hardware.

It comes down to personal choice, and if you decide to leave it the way it is, that's great too. I used JackSprat/Flash, had 9 hacks running, and overclocked the M505 to 42MHz. NEVER had a problem. But that's me. I can see your point though - $27 is a lot when the unit only cost $44!!
 
Removing "apps"

The simplest answer is to create a tab or category in the Palm or any Launcher app, and put the apps that you don?t want to use in it, and none others. If you are using any number of launcher apps you can even hide this tab or category. They are still in ROM, but never seen unless you want to. I for one used that, and now I have used the newer versions of JackSprat and JackFlash and have not had a bit of trouble. I have deleted almost all of the useless apps in ROM and added a whole slew of the good apps to Flash. At this juncture, I would not be scared to use the JF and JS apps. We oldsters have debugged all the major problems, and they do exactly what they say the do, NOW. Any questions, just holler, and for the rest of us newer users, this is the best forum around for Palm and T?s.
Richard
 
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