Ramadan sect: Which 4 men would witness adultery....is this not discusting and a
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peace king
New member
form of voyeurism? It makes no sense. 4 witnesses required in Islam for the accused for adultery? Then they give evidence in court.....really? You can start to sense now why Islam draws much criticism for hadiths like this. I am critical of this on all accounts........don't justify it in the real world there is none!
Mariya Ahmd
New member
doesnt surprise me..it makes no sense.. well thats islam for u
The four witnesses are required by Qur'an, that is, by the Uthmanic writ anyhow. However, the part that requires those four witnesses (surah 24) also gives a punishment for adultery that contradicts the punishment for adultery given in surah 4. Surah 24 also says if four witnesses cannot be produced than the accusor are liars in Allah's eyes. Allah would know if they are liars or truth tellers whether there were 80 witnesses or zero witnesses. Several other aspects of surah 24 suggest its corruption.
Surah 4 also requires four witnesses to convict someone of adultery, but if nine can conspire in a lie against a person (27:48), why are we supposed to believe that four cannot conspire in a lie? Afterall, adultery does not usually have any witnesses except for when the cheater and his mistress fall asleep in the bed and the wife comes home and finds another woman in her bed or in her shower or whatever.
Both surahs are corrupted, as are other parts of the Uthmanic writ. Muslims paying attention to what Allah says in Qur'an should be guarding against corruption in it just as in the other scriptures they are told to accept despite their corruptions.
Surah 4 also requires four witnesses to convict someone of adultery, but if nine can conspire in a lie against a person (27:48), why are we supposed to believe that four cannot conspire in a lie? Afterall, adultery does not usually have any witnesses except for when the cheater and his mistress fall asleep in the bed and the wife comes home and finds another woman in her bed or in her shower or whatever.
Both surahs are corrupted, as are other parts of the Uthmanic writ. Muslims paying attention to what Allah says in Qur'an should be guarding against corruption in it just as in the other scriptures they are told to accept despite their corruptions.
???? Pearl
New member
You are ignorant... but that is OK.. because it's not too late to learn inshAllah.
The wisdom of demanding 4 witnesses.. is because it is a GREAT thing to say/accuse anyone of immoral Zinah (adultry) in Allah's eyes and everyone's eyes.
So from Allah's mercy... Allah swt made it 4 witnesses...not 1.
Why? because if 4 witnesses don't come forward (which is in most cases true)... then the Punishment is waived.. and the sinners are recommended to repent between themselves and Allah swt.. and Allah swt forgives.
But... the case of people witnessing this comes like this..
If a Man sees a woman with another man in zinah... He usually calls out any other person to come adn witness it too...BUT.. it does not mean looking or watching them... Because even the Prophet saw said.. if they were caught naked... you should cover them: " ??? ??????? ?????"..
This is how it happens..
And the wisdom behind it is... the more people in public witness such disgusting act... the more Fahisha would be spread in society as corruption. So punishment has to be made public too. but if they were not caught... then they are recommended to repent silently.. and not speak of it with others..
The wisdom of demanding 4 witnesses.. is because it is a GREAT thing to say/accuse anyone of immoral Zinah (adultry) in Allah's eyes and everyone's eyes.
So from Allah's mercy... Allah swt made it 4 witnesses...not 1.
Why? because if 4 witnesses don't come forward (which is in most cases true)... then the Punishment is waived.. and the sinners are recommended to repent between themselves and Allah swt.. and Allah swt forgives.
But... the case of people witnessing this comes like this..
If a Man sees a woman with another man in zinah... He usually calls out any other person to come adn witness it too...BUT.. it does not mean looking or watching them... Because even the Prophet saw said.. if they were caught naked... you should cover them: " ??? ??????? ?????"..
This is how it happens..
And the wisdom behind it is... the more people in public witness such disgusting act... the more Fahisha would be spread in society as corruption. So punishment has to be made public too. but if they were not caught... then they are recommended to repent silently.. and not speak of it with others..
user formerly known as o
New member
LOLOLOLOL! Just a few minutes ago you had NO idea what the law meant, and now you are all big and haughty.
If you feel that our religion is that bad, go away.
Let me give you a real life story about why witnesses are so important: When I was in the Army, I knew of women who would scream rape after a night of drunken sex with a few men. They would do this out of embarrassment (they didn't want to be known as whores). I know of a few men that ended up imprisoned because they had sex with a woman that gave it to them willingly, but because the woman was embarassed and didin't want anyone to know, she would go to the commanding officer and say she was raped. Think of how many men are in jail for rapes they didn't commit.
Now, if there had been witnesses to say "Whoa...she asked him to go to the room with her, I even saw her kissing him and taking off her clothes," the outcome would be totally different, don't you think?
You don't see it for what it is. They aren't voyeurs, they are people who witnessed two people in the act of intimacy. They don't have to stand there and watch, they just have to have seen the actions.
Edit: Sexist comments? At least men have the gall to say that they slept with someone that they wished they had not. By the way, I have been sexually assaulted before, so it makes me the PERFECT person to speak out about it. My life was destroyed by someone who wanted to fulfill some sick fantasy, and it angers me to see women LIE about something so serious. I would hear my roomates (females) come back to the room and tell these men what they wanted and beg for them to stay the night, and then the next day when I would ask about it, they would deny it to the fullest. I have seen it with my own eyes. I know that not every woman is like that, trust me.
If you feel that our religion is that bad, go away.
Let me give you a real life story about why witnesses are so important: When I was in the Army, I knew of women who would scream rape after a night of drunken sex with a few men. They would do this out of embarrassment (they didn't want to be known as whores). I know of a few men that ended up imprisoned because they had sex with a woman that gave it to them willingly, but because the woman was embarassed and didin't want anyone to know, she would go to the commanding officer and say she was raped. Think of how many men are in jail for rapes they didn't commit.
Now, if there had been witnesses to say "Whoa...she asked him to go to the room with her, I even saw her kissing him and taking off her clothes," the outcome would be totally different, don't you think?
You don't see it for what it is. They aren't voyeurs, they are people who witnessed two people in the act of intimacy. They don't have to stand there and watch, they just have to have seen the actions.
Edit: Sexist comments? At least men have the gall to say that they slept with someone that they wished they had not. By the way, I have been sexually assaulted before, so it makes me the PERFECT person to speak out about it. My life was destroyed by someone who wanted to fulfill some sick fantasy, and it angers me to see women LIE about something so serious. I would hear my roomates (females) come back to the room and tell these men what they wanted and beg for them to stay the night, and then the next day when I would ask about it, they would deny it to the fullest. I have seen it with my own eyes. I know that not every woman is like that, trust me.
user formerly known as o
New member
LOLOLOLOL! Just a few minutes ago you had NO idea what the law meant, and now you are all big and haughty.
If you feel that our religion is that bad, go away.
Let me give you a real life story about why witnesses are so important: When I was in the Army, I knew of women who would scream rape after a night of drunken sex with a few men. They would do this out of embarrassment (they didn't want to be known as whores). I know of a few men that ended up imprisoned because they had sex with a woman that gave it to them willingly, but because the woman was embarassed and didin't want anyone to know, she would go to the commanding officer and say she was raped. Think of how many men are in jail for rapes they didn't commit.
Now, if there had been witnesses to say "Whoa...she asked him to go to the room with her, I even saw her kissing him and taking off her clothes," the outcome would be totally different, don't you think?
You don't see it for what it is. They aren't voyeurs, they are people who witnessed two people in the act of intimacy. They don't have to stand there and watch, they just have to have seen the actions.
Edit: Sexist comments? At least men have the gall to say that they slept with someone that they wished they had not. By the way, I have been sexually assaulted before, so it makes me the PERFECT person to speak out about it. My life was destroyed by someone who wanted to fulfill some sick fantasy, and it angers me to see women LIE about something so serious. I would hear my roomates (females) come back to the room and tell these men what they wanted and beg for them to stay the night, and then the next day when I would ask about it, they would deny it to the fullest. I have seen it with my own eyes. I know that not every woman is like that, trust me.
If you feel that our religion is that bad, go away.
Let me give you a real life story about why witnesses are so important: When I was in the Army, I knew of women who would scream rape after a night of drunken sex with a few men. They would do this out of embarrassment (they didn't want to be known as whores). I know of a few men that ended up imprisoned because they had sex with a woman that gave it to them willingly, but because the woman was embarassed and didin't want anyone to know, she would go to the commanding officer and say she was raped. Think of how many men are in jail for rapes they didn't commit.
Now, if there had been witnesses to say "Whoa...she asked him to go to the room with her, I even saw her kissing him and taking off her clothes," the outcome would be totally different, don't you think?
You don't see it for what it is. They aren't voyeurs, they are people who witnessed two people in the act of intimacy. They don't have to stand there and watch, they just have to have seen the actions.
Edit: Sexist comments? At least men have the gall to say that they slept with someone that they wished they had not. By the way, I have been sexually assaulted before, so it makes me the PERFECT person to speak out about it. My life was destroyed by someone who wanted to fulfill some sick fantasy, and it angers me to see women LIE about something so serious. I would hear my roomates (females) come back to the room and tell these men what they wanted and beg for them to stay the night, and then the next day when I would ask about it, they would deny it to the fullest. I have seen it with my own eyes. I know that not every woman is like that, trust me.