Qx technology employee or independent operator???

  • Thread starter Thread starter el gallo
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Yes, i know a few QX contractors that dont use dart to this day (nor do they have one in their possession). Up untill about 2 months ago i didnt have one either. However i broke down after they improved the features on the device. That being said iam sure someday soon it will become manditory, but i personally think they are holding off on this step untill DART operates flawlessly.



Correct, most independants (retailers with their own install service that dont run threw NI) dont use either DART or SEAFAS, all their jobs are booked and completed on their own accord, threw their own communications and arrangements with the customer.
 
Twenty years ago, they would have been but Revenue Canada looks the other way now. I know a lot of IT contractors who have worked on government contract for years and never been considered an employee.

They call them contractors so they can get around pay rules.

I think as long as the government makes such heavy use of so called contractors, Rev Can will continue to look the other way.
 
Thanks for the update, you appear to have a better handle on DART useage than the guys I talk to, who in all fairness are mostly Employees.

It also appears that the lines are getting more and more blurred. Again, from what I am told, almost each Subcontractor, used to be out on his own, as an Independant Sub Contractor to QX but during the last few months of 2009, this has changed, I am told due to another WSIB incedent, where QX was deemed to be the Employee and had to pay a 6 figure sum by way of restitution to, I believe the WSIB.

Now, one Subcontractor, "employs", several other "Sub- Sub Contractors. I think that was how it was decribed to me.

Basically, instead of QX having 100 different Sub-Contractors, they now have only 10 Sub-Contractors, with each one of those have 9 Sub-Contractors of their own. Yes this is over simplified but I think you get the idea.

The whole situation is so complex that it would take a long time for any provincial organization months to unravel the webs that are woven.....
 
Well WSIB overturned my status on being an indepedent operator...according to wsib i am a employee and not a independent operator.
So why am I paying for certain things like 2,000, 000 dollar liability insurance?
All materials for installs?
Gas?
Phone?
Dart?
Aside from the fact that the qualifications for a sub contractor are practically the same for WSIB and the CRA? We are fresh for the pickings at any moment. It's time for the technicians to unite!! and demand change cause like one of the previous members stated we will get the shaft in the end.
Any other QX techs on this board?
 
You are not the first Contractor that this has happened to at QX and unless things chance you will not be the last.

They had a WSIB claim made aginst them quite a few years ago, if you were to mention his name to the Managers (MH & TT), they will still cringe.....lol

I know a lot of guys at QX, both in Mississauga and out West, from way back.
 
Whether it's illegal depends on where you live and which government or government department you are dealing with. With so many different federal, provincial and, in some cases, municipal laws and organizations, it's impossible to keep track. I've seen employers tell one government department one thing to get grants and another something else to avoid paying things like UIC and CP. It included outright fraudulent statements and actions on the part of the employer but I doubt anything was done. It was hidden from the employee and he only found out when he received a call from the government agency providing grants.

Canada Revenue is basically a tax collection agency. Their job is to decide what money is owing under their rules. If the employee has been defrauded it's not their responsibility to do anything about it. Every other government agency can decide the opposite but it still doesn't affect Canada Revenue's ruling.
 
Pretty much correct, Here in the west Qx has has companies which are subcontractors, which then have employees working for them (not sure if the employees are actually employees in all cases or sub-contractors. I know a few companies just pay these guys as actual employees) ie "JOHNDOE Sat. Sales and Service" is the subcontractor that handles lets say the Swift Current, Sask service area for bell NI threw QX, in turn JOHNDOE Sat. has 4 employees that do the work and are payed threw JOHNDOE Sat. However on the flip side QX does still have some subcontractors (individuals) that work directly for QX in some major centers (i know for sure in the cities where qx has a office), so its really kind of a split thing.

Hope this makes sense, LOL its early in the am....
 
It's a tough area of tax and employment law that is being commented on here. Canadian Business is in a bind as well. The tax laws are pretty clear on who is an employee. And yes, many people who are being treated as independent contractors are actually employees. Revenue Canada does not have the man power to come out and audit each business individually to ensure their "contractors" are not "employees."

It's not so much a loop-hole as a non-enforceable rule. Imagine Revenue Canada coming out, getting a list of every last "contractor" a business does work with, then going to those contractors and asking for a list of all their employees and clients, then comparing that list to the original business and then trying to find out what the rules were about the employment. It would grind the tax system to a hault.

So why don't they just say everyone's an employee? Well that would be far too limitting on companies. Lets say a self employed plumber comes in for a day's work. The company now has to make him an employee. Deduct (and remit) taxes and CPP and EI AND issue an ROE for that day's work. Plus at the end of the year, they'd have to issue a T4.

This kind of thing bridges all employment areas as well. My partner works in theatre and he is always called a "contractor." Even though the company explicitly says it pays for his coverage with WorksafeBC. He's told when and where he has to be. He has no exclusive judgement on the tasks he can and can not perform. Under Revenue Canada laws, that's an employee. But not in the entertainment industry. They don't deduct CPP, EI or taxes.

Is it illegal? Yes. But there's no way around it.

Having said that, I've heard from my accountant that "Contractors" and the companies that contract to them are playing a dangerous game of cat and mouse with the rules. It has happened that Revenue Canada has issued decisions against companies and forced them to contact previous "Contractors" and make source deductions in their name. Those companies had to pay EI, CPP and Tax on the employees earnings, even if they could not contact the employees to have them pay them back.
 
This would be quite easy in this case, Bell TV and QX both keep a list, quite an easy job to get a copy.
 
I know a large financial company that keeps about a third of their employees working on contract and doesn't give them permanent status, which means they can work full-time and not get the benefits of a regular employee. The employer does collect taxes, but has no other obligation or commitment to the employee. Is it legal? Is it ethical?

That's a little different, but it happens in a lot of industries. Some employees prefer to do it that way. Like waiters and waitresses who don't report their tips.

As I said, it really isn't a Bell TV issue.
 
The thing with WCB in any province is that they're not so concerned with who is an employee and who is a contractor as long as SOMEONE is paying the insurance premiums. The only difference between being an employee and being a subcontractor is who gets to pay the WCB premiums and which rate they are at. As long as Bell or QX is paying WSIB or Worksafe or whichever WCB Board is applicable there really won't be anything technically illegal.

These are questions subcontractors need to ask whoever is hiring them before they go out into the field. Am I an employee? If not, are you paying WCB premiums or do I need to open an account with them? Again, as taxtwit mentioned, this is separate of tax laws. This is because even if Revenue Canada deems you to be an employee, WCB may decide you indeed were a Subcontractor.

So the really important part to remember is, know before you go. If your employment agreement declares you a subcontractor, it's not worth trying to argue that point afterwards. If you're unhappy with the contract, negotiate before you sign. Once you start working as a subcontractor and the terms have been agreed to, it may be difficult to change those terms down the road.
 
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