Power Commander 5 and Auto Tune Info

I have accepted the trims on mine probably 4 or 5 times with no issues. You don't have to accept them but I am building a "trimmed" base map and then plan to change the AFRs to be leaner and let the AT trim to that. I connected a switch to the PCV and I can turn AT off whenever I need to and use the richer base map.

It should not cause an issue accepting the trims. If I remember correctly, streetglider used send tables when he had a problem. I have never tried that option.
 
Correct. The 2 new O2 sensors are wideband sensors. They are a little difficult to switch but not bad. You are very close.
 
There's no need to accept the trims. When I first bought the AT kit I used a close map from Jamie and rode the bike for an entire day, trying to hit every RPM/TP point on the map more than once. The Target AFR's used were Jamie's rich values, not those that I would ultimately use (more on that later). At the end of that day I accepted the trims and that was my new base map based on the rich values. I then re-set the target AFR's to leaner values for better mileage, and the O2 sensors then create the trims on the fly based on those new targets. For all of the cruise range I have negative numbers in the trim tables, some in double-digits, and that's the way it should be. By doing it this way I can use an on-off switch to toggle between the richer base map for better cooling when needed and AT mode most of the time (using the trims) for better mileage.

There is absolutely no practical reason to continually accept trims, IMO, unless you want to create a base map to install on another bike with like equipment. Or, if you want to create a base map like I did for use with a switch.



They can be a PIA, but follow this procedure and you shouldn't have any trouble.

1. Warm the bike up and spray some WD-40 or other penetrant on the base of the sensor, then let it sit for 10 min. or so.

2. Using a socket like this, slowly loosen the sensor, repositioning the wires in the socket about every turn or so. If it becomes hard to turn, spray more WD-40 on the base and turn it in a turn or so, then out. Don't force it or you may damage the threads on the sensor.

3. Put some anti-sieze compound on the threads of the new sensor and torque into place.



That's the way the basic PCV (no AT) works, too. It goes like this: On a stock system the ECM sends out signals to the EFI. A basic PCV intercepts those signals and alters them according to the values in your base map. End of story with the basic PCV. Now with AT you have more going on, the O2-sensors and two additional tables, Target AFR and Trim. Let's assume we have inserted a value of 14.0 in the Target AFR table for 2000 RPM @ 10% TP (throttle position). The O2-sensor reads the AFR coming from the exhaust, and if it sees 13.5 (for example) it will subtract unti it meets the 14.0 value dictated in the Target AFR table. It subtracts by inserting negative values in the Trim Table. So, if you have a 10 in your base map for 2000 @ 10% and the O2-sensors have inserted a -5 in the Trim Table the bike will run as if the base map had a 5 in that cell (10-5). What it's doing is leaning it out to meet the 14.0 AFR value that you have provided in the Target AFR table.

So, if you accept trims it will take that -5 and apply it to the existing 10 in the old base map and create a new value of 5 in the base map for 2000 @ 10%. Note that it will do this for the entire tables (both front and rear cylinder), not just one cell. If you do this it will run exactly the same as if you did nothing at all, and accepting trims is only necessary when you are trying to create an accurate base map to start from for your bike, but you don't even need to do that. If you want to create a rich map like I did, then be able to switch between open- and closed-loop, the above procedure is the proper one to use. I hope this is clear, as it is a simple process but very hard to describe.



Correct, but you don't really need to do this unless you are connecting a switch like I have done. You could theoretically put in a zeroed map, or even one for a totally different bike, and let it auto-tune. It then creates the appropriate trims based on your target AFR's, and it will run as well if you accept trims or not. One caveat is that the further the base is from reality (your desired AFR's) the longer it will take to trim properly. So if AT needs to trim +20 it will take longer to do that than if the values were closer to reality.

All this said, if I was not using the switch I would probably run the bike for a week or two, then accept trims once. That's really all you need to do, as it works the same either way.
 
Thanks iclick, you're my guru on this subject, as I've been following your posts for some time now. Thanks for giving enough of a sh!t to post all this info. I'll go back and re-read the posts for a refresher while I wait. I hope to report back some good news.

I'll be using a AN Big Sucker, which I'm not that impressed with as far as quality. The machining is junk, I mean bad enough I may take it to my buddies machine shop and tweak some of the features like mounting surface and o-rings. My wife got it for me for Christmas so I'd like to make it work. But for those of you looking to buy - skip it and get some one else's piece.

For now I'll also run the stock header with some special stock mufflers. I work for the company that makes all the stock HD mufflers - so I had some 'friends' build me a set of 'gutless wonders' to use.
 
Glad to help, so please report back when you get your stuff installed. Read the instructions on that AT and make sure the terminator plug is installed properly. Been there, done that.



For the benefit of others, the Fuel Moto kit is an SE with a cleanable element, and it works very well at a reasonable price.
 
I talked to Jamie today about the problem I am having. He told me that he sees this once in a while. I have sent him my adjusted map, so he can tell me what is happening and make an adjustment to my map. I understand I don't have to accept the trim values, but I had planned to have a base map for each configuration and as I accept trim values, at some point, I would expect to see very small changes in trim values. That way, I know I have base maps for Jackpots, if I get that great deal on the OVals, I may swap. I can then add the 103 kit....and I can pull the auto tune and loan it to someone to tune their bike. I'll let you know what I hear. Won't surprise me that it is another case of operator error....
 
OK all - I got my kit on Saturday! I installed it and got to go for a ride. Now keep in mind that I have a kind of custom, one off slip ons and FM didn't have a perfect fit for it, map wise. I found that the bike was very strong from 3K to 5K rpm. Had to go out for the evening with the family to a summer party.

Got up this morning and loaded the laptop software to hook-up to the bike. What a cool set-up; watching the number roll while you twist the throttle.

I checked the trimmed values and nothing - all 0's. Reread some posts - I forgot the termination plug. Got in in place and went back out - Wow - the AT really got to work in a hurry. It filled in the weak spots and really boosted the overall strength of the motor.

I'm thrilled with the results and I know this system is going to let me grow into the mods I have planned over the next year or so. D&D Fatcats, cams and maybe a better air cleaner. If I have any complaints - I would mention the size of the O2 connectors, man, could they be any bigger?

I'd also like to see how you all routed your front cyl O2 sensor line back to the AT units. I went up the the front of the fuel tank and passed it under the tank/above the motor, back into a hole under the seat area of the frame. I kinda hate it, as it just hangs/lays up in there, and I need some better ideas.


THANKS to all of you that posted in this thread and basically went through the learning curve for me!
******
Let me share this with you all as I had no luck getting a 7/8 wrench into the area needed to remove the O2s, and the usual O2 sensor socket will NOT work on an 08 SG rear header sensor.

If you go to Autozone you can get one of their loaner kits containing 3 different O2 sockets. You pay for it, $25, and when you get done with it to take it back for a refund. This is a great program - I use it when I need a goofy tool I'd never use again.

Anyway this kits has an offset socket that was perfect for my applications. The offset socket eliminates the issue of the longer, new, sensors you need to install. See photos:








Just loosen or remove the heat shield for your rear cyl crossover pipe on the OEM header. When you use this socket set-up like in the lower photo your socket extension gets right on the header and when you torque the sensor, you'll bend/kink your heat shield as it takes the side load of the turning torque - Don't ask me how I know.
 
I couldn't find any socket or wrench to fit the rear O2 sensor and still have room to turn it on my 08 SG either. I ended up making a line wrench by cutting a segment from a 12 point boxed-end wrench. Not too classy but it got the job done.
 
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