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Power Commander 5 and Auto Tune Info
- Thread starter 77Impala
- Start date
ninjamasta2k
New member
Engine Idle Temperature Management System Pg. 144 of the 2009 Touring Models Owners Manual. Hope this helps.
B
benjamin_chu
Guest
Wild ride to work this morning.....
Not really sure what I screwed up last night but here's what happened.
I made some changes to the Target AFR's in my PCV AT map. Saved the changes under the map name on my laptop. Then I did something a little different than I usually do. Since I already had this map loaded in the PCV and all I did was make changes to the target AFR's I sent just the tables to the PCV instead of sending the entire map. Don't ask me why I did it that way...but I did. This morning I went to ride into work and the bike ran like complete crap. Thank God I only live about 14 miles from work. The bike was surging, popping, and died once accelerating from a stop. I assumed my AFR changes screwed something up.
At lunch I rode home real quick to plug into the laptop and see what was going on and when I opened my Autotune trims...almost the whole table on both cylinders were -122 or so. No wonder huh. Strange because I had MAX Enleanment and Enrichment set to 20. It shouldn't have allowed more than + or - 20 in any block. I cleared the trims and then reloaded the map. Ran just fine coming back to work. Brought the laptop with me to work and looked at the trims when I got there and they were all normal (+ or - 5 or so).
I haven't spoken to Jamie or Power Commander about this but I believe it was a result of me just sending the tables instead of the whole map to the PCV. Maybe we'll hear from someone who knows more than I do...but be aware that if you choose to send tables to the PCV instead of the whole map that this could occur. As usual...just like any good Marine...if it can be messed up I will find a way to break it I'll let you know if I find any more ways to screw it up.
No problems now though.
Not really sure what I screwed up last night but here's what happened.
I made some changes to the Target AFR's in my PCV AT map. Saved the changes under the map name on my laptop. Then I did something a little different than I usually do. Since I already had this map loaded in the PCV and all I did was make changes to the target AFR's I sent just the tables to the PCV instead of sending the entire map. Don't ask me why I did it that way...but I did. This morning I went to ride into work and the bike ran like complete crap. Thank God I only live about 14 miles from work. The bike was surging, popping, and died once accelerating from a stop. I assumed my AFR changes screwed something up.
At lunch I rode home real quick to plug into the laptop and see what was going on and when I opened my Autotune trims...almost the whole table on both cylinders were -122 or so. No wonder huh. Strange because I had MAX Enleanment and Enrichment set to 20. It shouldn't have allowed more than + or - 20 in any block. I cleared the trims and then reloaded the map. Ran just fine coming back to work. Brought the laptop with me to work and looked at the trims when I got there and they were all normal (+ or - 5 or so).
I haven't spoken to Jamie or Power Commander about this but I believe it was a result of me just sending the tables instead of the whole map to the PCV. Maybe we'll hear from someone who knows more than I do...but be aware that if you choose to send tables to the PCV instead of the whole map that this could occur. As usual...just like any good Marine...if it can be messed up I will find a way to break it I'll let you know if I find any more ways to screw it up.
No problems now though.
hatrickpatrick
New member
OK...
Now that I have my Target AFR's where I want them and the system is tuning itself well...
Would there be any reason to mess with the timing to maximize power? I have noticed that both cylinders are set at 16 degrees of advance and the basemap I have makes no changes at all in the timing.
Should I try retarding the timing a bit to increase power? If so, how much and where in the map?
Now that I have my Target AFR's where I want them and the system is tuning itself well...
Would there be any reason to mess with the timing to maximize power? I have noticed that both cylinders are set at 16 degrees of advance and the basemap I have makes no changes at all in the timing.
Should I try retarding the timing a bit to increase power? If so, how much and where in the map?
It will not make a difference if you send the table or send the entire map. Not sure what happened but I would speculate that for some reason lost USB connection while sending the table and it caused an error. For a piece of mind when you send a map or table look at the window in the lower left of the software and it will verify that it was sent sucessfully. As far as ignition timing you will typically lose performance and raise engine temp and EGT's by retarding the igntion timing. On most of the 96" bikes we are adding 3-4 degrees of advance thru the midrange and all of our 09 96" maps have 3-4 advance in the upper throttle areas as well.
Jamie, not sure what happened with the map load last night but all is well with it now. I rode about 80 miles or so after work and all I am seeing in the trims is + or - 1's ans 2's. It's dead on now.
Would you recommend advancing at all on my 103? Maybe toying with 2-4 degrees advance from 3000 up and 40 percent throttle and up?
I can't stop playing with this damn thing...it's too fun.
Would you recommend advancing at all on my 103? Maybe toying with 2-4 degrees advance from 3000 up and 40 percent throttle and up?
I can't stop playing with this damn thing...it's too fun.
Good heavens no! I would not mess with ignition timing unless you experience detonation. Jamie has set timing as high as it can go in all cells without adverse effects, so I wouldn't mess with it. I tried increasing ignition advance on my PCIII last summer to increase mileage and cooling but found that any increase on my '07 brought on detonation. I ended up setting it back up to the original Fuel Moto map. Retarding the timing is not a tool to increase performance, and it's quite the contrary unless you are hearing detonation. Your ideal setting is at that point just below the threshold of detonation, all other factors being equal.
I think you're messing with this a bit too much, that comment coming from someone who also messes with things too much. It's the pot calling the kettle black, and it takes one to know one. You get the idea. Anyway, the PCV-AT is designed to run optimally given the right target AFR's. You and I started with good Target AFR tables from Fuel Moto and we should think twice before altering it. You and I have altered the cruise range to get better fuel economy, which is legitimate if we know how to identify when we've gone too far, but I wouldn't change anything above about 40% TP. Jamie has dynoed hundreds of bikes and his AFR targets are based on this compiled knowledge, so I wouldn't second-guess him for performance outside the cruise range.
I think you're messing with this a bit too much, that comment coming from someone who also messes with things too much. It's the pot calling the kettle black, and it takes one to know one. You get the idea. Anyway, the PCV-AT is designed to run optimally given the right target AFR's. You and I started with good Target AFR tables from Fuel Moto and we should think twice before altering it. You and I have altered the cruise range to get better fuel economy, which is legitimate if we know how to identify when we've gone too far, but I wouldn't change anything above about 40% TP. Jamie has dynoed hundreds of bikes and his AFR targets are based on this compiled knowledge, so I wouldn't second-guess him for performance outside the cruise range.
wwe diva Maria
New member
I finally got back to the dyno today. I have been working on two totally different maps with different target AFR's. I used the original basemap from Fuel Moto and saved it under 3 different file names. I left one as it was when I got it. The 2nd I left all the AFR's the same, let Autotune work it's majic, and saved all of the trims that autotune made to the fuel tables. Accepting and saving the trims makes permanent changes to the basemap. Then the next run there is less adjustment necessary for AT to meet the target AFR's. The 3rd map I completely changed the target AFR's for more MPG. The tables went from 14.5 in cruise range out to 13.5 to 13.1 at WOT. I let the autotune do it's thing and accepted all of the trims on this map as well.
So, I went to the dyno today and I did 3 runs each with all three maps just to see what the difference would be. The dyno tech was really interested to see how it all worked and told me, if need be, he would make a custom map for me. () The tech really warned me (a few weeks ago) about going with a canned map and he told me he would probably have to modify it a bit. BUT, today when he saw the system work and the smooth curves it produced he really liked the Fuel Moto basemap with the Autotune corrections.
For my case, it is important to note that Jamie did not have a perfect match on file for my bike, so because I was getting autotune he sent a map that would be close and autotune would do the fine tuning.
While all that is shown on the dyno is WOT performance I can say without a doubt that with any of the three maps I have used the bike runs as smooth as silk and pulls all the way through the RPM range. All are a huge improvement over stock IMO.
At the end of the day there were no changes made or recommended to the FuelMoto basemap's target AFR's and no suggestions for improvement from the dyno tech. He said the bike runs great and the numbers and curves look very good.
First attachment below shows FM basemap with autotune turned off and no changes made to the map.
Second Shows FM basemap with AT enabled and trims accepted.
Third shows the lean map I adapted by severely modifying the FM basemap with my AFR's and saved trims.
Fourth is a combined run sheet showing runs on all maps including my original from a few weeks ago before the changes.
All the runs were made in virtually the same environmental conditions so there should be very little environmental influence if any.
In the end I really like the FM with AT changes map the most. I gained 3 points in TQ and lost only 1 Hp. It is also important to note that I am using the large baffle Jackpots that do sacrifice a couple points each according to Jamie. With the regular FM baffle Dyno Tuned Jackpots there would most likely be a gain of a couple points in both HP and TQ. But hey...I love the sound of the Jackpots with the large baffle and wouldn't even think about changing for a couple point gain.
IMHO...the bike runs much better, much cooler, and much smoother than ever before and I gained better sound and a few points of TQ. I have to give a big thumbs up to the PCV, AT system, and the Jackpots and basemap from Fuel Moto.
So, I went to the dyno today and I did 3 runs each with all three maps just to see what the difference would be. The dyno tech was really interested to see how it all worked and told me, if need be, he would make a custom map for me. () The tech really warned me (a few weeks ago) about going with a canned map and he told me he would probably have to modify it a bit. BUT, today when he saw the system work and the smooth curves it produced he really liked the Fuel Moto basemap with the Autotune corrections.
For my case, it is important to note that Jamie did not have a perfect match on file for my bike, so because I was getting autotune he sent a map that would be close and autotune would do the fine tuning.
While all that is shown on the dyno is WOT performance I can say without a doubt that with any of the three maps I have used the bike runs as smooth as silk and pulls all the way through the RPM range. All are a huge improvement over stock IMO.
At the end of the day there were no changes made or recommended to the FuelMoto basemap's target AFR's and no suggestions for improvement from the dyno tech. He said the bike runs great and the numbers and curves look very good.
First attachment below shows FM basemap with autotune turned off and no changes made to the map.
Second Shows FM basemap with AT enabled and trims accepted.
Third shows the lean map I adapted by severely modifying the FM basemap with my AFR's and saved trims.
Fourth is a combined run sheet showing runs on all maps including my original from a few weeks ago before the changes.
All the runs were made in virtually the same environmental conditions so there should be very little environmental influence if any.
In the end I really like the FM with AT changes map the most. I gained 3 points in TQ and lost only 1 Hp. It is also important to note that I am using the large baffle Jackpots that do sacrifice a couple points each according to Jamie. With the regular FM baffle Dyno Tuned Jackpots there would most likely be a gain of a couple points in both HP and TQ. But hey...I love the sound of the Jackpots with the large baffle and wouldn't even think about changing for a couple point gain.
IMHO...the bike runs much better, much cooler, and much smoother than ever before and I gained better sound and a few points of TQ. I have to give a big thumbs up to the PCV, AT system, and the Jackpots and basemap from Fuel Moto.