>>> it's no exaggeration to his work cut out for him tonight. it's not just how he explains his derision for 47% of the population. derision that has had a negative impact on voters in a new nbc news poll. tonight it's all about how he retunes his own attacks on the president, which have done worse than they'll. they're actually helping the president. after a blizzard of attacks on the president's, you didn't build that line, 36% of voters tell nbc they view the president more positively, versus only 32% who say the opposite.
>>> joining us now in denver is jonathan alter , msnbc political analyst and in new york, richard wolffe , newly minted editor of msnbc.com. thank you, richard. we bow in your honor.
>> congrats.
>> thank you.
>> tell me if this were right, if mitt romney were to hit the president with a line, you didn't build it, he would be helping the campaign for the president?
>> it's also long in the tooth as an attack line.
>> just a bit.
>> and they've played it out. and it was taken out of context. it actually gives the president an opening to say that he was talking about rebuilding roads and bridges and things are quite popular with the american public. i don't think that would be a smart line of attack. i doubt he'll do it. i think he would try to position himself in the center and make it seem as if he's been a moderate republican all along. he need those independent voters in order to win this election, martin. i think we'll watch him attack the center on immigration, on job creation , all kinds -- taxation. all kinds of issues that might give him a fighting chance of getting back into this race.
>> we'll have to fight a helicopter just above us. richard, romney 's bigger problem is his 47% remark. the numbers in the new nbc poll are simply awful for romney . can you do anything in five weeks to negate their impact?
>> you know, they have broken through --
>> oh, thank you.
>> they've broken through. you know, this was a point in 2008 when something similar happened with john mccain . he couldn't recall in an interview how many houses or properties he owned. that became a sort of explaining narrative for all sorts of reasons why, and this may sound familiar, why he seemed out of touch. this 47% video resonated to a greater degree than john mccain not remembering how many homes he owned. so, if you have failed at this point to explain who you are, if you have another version of that story out there, you cannot undo it in one debate. you can try and engage with people directly to camera, but mitt romney is also going to want to land some punches. that's going to take time away from his job, number one, which should be telling people, for once, who he really is.
>> i think that may be intentional. john, this is how romney 's running mate paul ryan addressed the 47% comment captured in that secret video yesterday. take a listen.
>> is there any way possible that this 47% can pay a nominal fee or something so they feel that they have small ownership in the government and maybe they won't take all the handouts so readily?
>> i've got an idea. let's help them get a job so they're good paycheck so they're good taxpayers.
>> so, paul ryan says 89-year-old great grandmothers, currently using benefits, should go and get a job.
>> it's not just the grandmothers and veterans. the working poor , who are given something called the earned income tax --
>> who are actually employed --
>> he knows this. so, this is really shameful. paul ryan knows better. he's trying to tap into the anti-moocher vote. and it's -- in the past, it's been a significant number of people in this country who think there are a bunch of lay-abouts lying on the couch, watching tv and eating cheetos. 45% do work. they just don't make enough money. the government decided under ronald reagan at first, give them a tax credit . in other words, send them a tax --
>> incentivize them to work.
>> ryan knows this but he's just pandering to the worst instincts of his audience.
>> martin, i don't know how -- or what goes through someone like -- the head of someone like paul ryan where he isn't going to accept the framework of that proposition, which has been so damaging. really a sensible candidate wouldn't try and accept the premise of the question. he'd try and explain it. he'd say, this is where we want to move the country. not about work, but it's been so damaging to sort of accept it and engage in it and embrace it, it is such a losing proposition. even the research from his own campaign must tell him that.
>> john, you have previously remarked to me on the fact you regard paul ryan as a smart man. a man that understands numbers. that 47% tape has been out there for almost three weeks and he's making that kind of comment yesterday. is he really that smart?
>> well, he's very smart on the budget numbers, but his problem is he's in the grip of an awful ideology that he began to read in high school , suffered from a form of arrested development where he stuck with it where a lot of other high school kids gave it up. as recently as two years ago, he was preaching how wonderful rand was, she influenced all of his thinking. only came out she was an atheist, he backed away from her. rand divided the country into moochers and producers. this is where mitt romney 's heart is. he believes in his heart --
>> 30% of the nation are moochers.
>> these folks are moochers and don't deserve anything from our society.
>> amazing. jonathan alter , richard wolffe , thank you.
>>> joining us now in denver is jonathan alter , msnbc political analyst and in new york, richard wolffe , newly minted editor of msnbc.com. thank you, richard. we bow in your honor.
>> congrats.
>> thank you.
>> tell me if this were right, if mitt romney were to hit the president with a line, you didn't build it, he would be helping the campaign for the president?
>> it's also long in the tooth as an attack line.
>> just a bit.
>> and they've played it out. and it was taken out of context. it actually gives the president an opening to say that he was talking about rebuilding roads and bridges and things are quite popular with the american public. i don't think that would be a smart line of attack. i doubt he'll do it. i think he would try to position himself in the center and make it seem as if he's been a moderate republican all along. he need those independent voters in order to win this election, martin. i think we'll watch him attack the center on immigration, on job creation , all kinds -- taxation. all kinds of issues that might give him a fighting chance of getting back into this race.
>> we'll have to fight a helicopter just above us. richard, romney 's bigger problem is his 47% remark. the numbers in the new nbc poll are simply awful for romney . can you do anything in five weeks to negate their impact?
>> you know, they have broken through --
>> oh, thank you.
>> they've broken through. you know, this was a point in 2008 when something similar happened with john mccain . he couldn't recall in an interview how many houses or properties he owned. that became a sort of explaining narrative for all sorts of reasons why, and this may sound familiar, why he seemed out of touch. this 47% video resonated to a greater degree than john mccain not remembering how many homes he owned. so, if you have failed at this point to explain who you are, if you have another version of that story out there, you cannot undo it in one debate. you can try and engage with people directly to camera, but mitt romney is also going to want to land some punches. that's going to take time away from his job, number one, which should be telling people, for once, who he really is.
>> i think that may be intentional. john, this is how romney 's running mate paul ryan addressed the 47% comment captured in that secret video yesterday. take a listen.
>> is there any way possible that this 47% can pay a nominal fee or something so they feel that they have small ownership in the government and maybe they won't take all the handouts so readily?
>> i've got an idea. let's help them get a job so they're good paycheck so they're good taxpayers.
>> so, paul ryan says 89-year-old great grandmothers, currently using benefits, should go and get a job.
>> it's not just the grandmothers and veterans. the working poor , who are given something called the earned income tax --
>> who are actually employed --
>> he knows this. so, this is really shameful. paul ryan knows better. he's trying to tap into the anti-moocher vote. and it's -- in the past, it's been a significant number of people in this country who think there are a bunch of lay-abouts lying on the couch, watching tv and eating cheetos. 45% do work. they just don't make enough money. the government decided under ronald reagan at first, give them a tax credit . in other words, send them a tax --
>> incentivize them to work.
>> ryan knows this but he's just pandering to the worst instincts of his audience.
>> martin, i don't know how -- or what goes through someone like -- the head of someone like paul ryan where he isn't going to accept the framework of that proposition, which has been so damaging. really a sensible candidate wouldn't try and accept the premise of the question. he'd try and explain it. he'd say, this is where we want to move the country. not about work, but it's been so damaging to sort of accept it and engage in it and embrace it, it is such a losing proposition. even the research from his own campaign must tell him that.
>> john, you have previously remarked to me on the fact you regard paul ryan as a smart man. a man that understands numbers. that 47% tape has been out there for almost three weeks and he's making that kind of comment yesterday. is he really that smart?
>> well, he's very smart on the budget numbers, but his problem is he's in the grip of an awful ideology that he began to read in high school , suffered from a form of arrested development where he stuck with it where a lot of other high school kids gave it up. as recently as two years ago, he was preaching how wonderful rand was, she influenced all of his thinking. only came out she was an atheist, he backed away from her. rand divided the country into moochers and producers. this is where mitt romney 's heart is. he believes in his heart --
>> 30% of the nation are moochers.
>> these folks are moochers and don't deserve anything from our society.
>> amazing. jonathan alter , richard wolffe , thank you.