Please Help!

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paulo60

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Greetings fellow back sufferers. I am trying to get some feedback from actual people who have had lurabar laminectomies and fusion surgery at the L4-5 and L5-S1 levels. My surgeon wants to remove two discs, then due a graft from the illiac crest and fuse the two vertabrae, putting in a rod and screws for structural support. I am very frightened to have such radical surgery, with what I know will be a long recovery time to full health, and I am very concerned that there is a higher risk for failure than I am being led to believe. My surgeon is claiming a 95% long term success rate, but when I consider the area of the spine, and my age, I am 61 with degenerative disc disease - facet arthropathy, and a herniated disc, I have serious doubts about his claims and would like to hear from others who might have had a similar procedure, and how it worked out for them in the long run. I have an opportunity to participate in a lengthy treatment called spinal decompression which claims to help resolve many of these types of problems using new technology, most importantly, through non-surgical non-invasive methoRAB. I am almost completely disabled by pain, my back is very unstable, and I am in a bit of a quandary as to what would be best to do. Please help me with your own story if you have had lurabar surgery. I need to get feedback from people who have either been helped or not helped in order to make an informed decision. Thank you all and my best hopes for a pain free day to everyone.....Paulo
 
Hi Paulo,
I had my first fusion on 03/06. L-4, L-5 S-1. Bone harvested from my own hip, titanium instrumentations, roRAB, screws. Decompression/laminectomy. Metal pelvic plate, SIJ metal clips. Prosthesis were used.

I got a lot of nerve damage in my legs, I got dropped foot. Recovery was very hard. About 6-7 month later I was diagnoses with Failed surgery. I got to the point I couldnot walk at all even though I walked either with a walker or a cane. I knew if something will not be done - I will end up in a wheel chair.
Finaly I went to HSS in NYC and DR told me that I will need another surgery done and fuse L-3 level, decompression, lami, removing my old hardware, some prosthesis again, etc.
I had this done 6 weeks ago. Right now is too early to say anything, but my nerve pain in a legs is so severe, some days i can't think straight. I take plenty of PK to help with pain, than meRAB for neuropathy pain too.
Did this surgery helped me? Don't have the answer yet.
But one thing i know for sure. Before my first surgery my local surgeon told me same as yours: sucsess rate is 90% for spinal surgeries. That is why i really did not do my homework - i trusted him.
After my surgery failed and I did so much research, I can honestly tell you that this is not true.
Dicsectomies, laminectomies (sp?) are spinal surgeries too, but their sucess rate is really high. Than one level surgeries have a lot higher rate than multi-levels. When DR tells me about 90% he means all spinal surgeries, he does not specifies Fusions.
When I went on a web my second surgeon from HSS recommended (due to the rules, i can't give your this web address) I read honest opinions of a big Drs from the best institution for spinal surgeries about sucsess rates for fusions. I was shocked. Not high at all and also DRs don't like to mention that a lot of those who go for one fusion have to come back for more surgeries... Unfortunatelly.

Sorry if my post disapoints you, I just try to be honest. I wish to know what I know now before my first surgery, that is why I share what I know with you.
Would I go for surgery anyway? Not sure at this point even though car accident left me with a lot of damages in my spine. Just don't know...:confused:
 
Hi Justoneofus, I read your other post as well as this one, and I confess that both were discouraging, although I deeply appreciate the honesty and time you took to respond. It is a very complex issue, whether or not to have back surgery, and definitely one that has to be carefully considered. It sounRAB as if you got some benefit from the decompression treatments, and yes, it sounRAB exactly what I would be doing, with the DX9000 or whatever it is called. I had both knees replaced a year and a half ago, which is very major surgery, but still not on the level of the kind of back surgery I would need, nor is the recovery time as long with knee replacement. The year before I had triple bypass, the year before balloon angioplasty for a heart attack, and the year before hand reconstructive surgery due to arthritis. The radiologist's have for years described my degenerative joint disease as "severe" at levels L4-5 and L5-S1. My cervical spine is not much better. I have been unable to work for three years now, and at 61 the thought of one more major surgery that would keep me out another six months to a year is not appealing. But you are also right, I may not have much choice, the structure is failing, and I am living not only a financially poor life with few choices, but one with an almost unbearable level of pain and disability. As a professional who can earn a very good living by working, having to live on a fixed income and having to face the prospect of yet one more year out of work is quite depressing. Be that as it may, today I will talk to the clinic that does the spinal decompression, and tomorrow I will see the orthopedic surgeon, again. I have had three surgical consultations in just the past two years. I also have no support system, having only this year moved to a new state to be closer to family who then got jobs in other states and moved. Isn't that the irony of life? Thanks again for your informative response, it is really helpful to get this kind of feedback..........Paulo:confused:
 
Paulo,

I have had two fusions. The first fusion at s1 and s2 was in 1982 and I was 17 and I healed really quickly and had NO PAIN until 2004. No hardware was used and they took bone from the illiac crest. Most of pain after surgery was at the illiac crest but worked itself out quickly and I was off running and enjoying a pain free life.

My second fusion at L5/s1 was done in Feb 2007 and I was 42. In May 2006, I had a laminectomy at this level and the level became unstable so I needed a fusion. Hardware was used and no bone was taken from the illiac crest. I had enough extra bone from bone spurs for the fusion site. I have had high levels of pain since my fusion and even had a revision surgery done in Noveraber 2007. They are now saying that I have failed back syndrome and in my heart I am not ready to accept this diagnosis and am still clinging to HOPE and fighting the wrath of a deep depression.

So I have had one successful and one not successful fusion. Would I take a risk again? Maybe. Right now I would say no to surgery if it pertains to L5/S1, I have had 3 surgeries on L5/S1 and the surgery has not helped me I have only deteroriated to the point that I walk with a cane and/or walker. If it were a new level, I would without a doubt consider another surgery. I had one successful surgery and I know there can be life with no pain or very little pain. I just feel that L5/S1 is probably so messed up from other surgeries that it is probably beyond hope and I will always have pain at this level.

I hope that this has helped you in some way and if you have any questions I would be more than willing to help you.

As far as a 95% success rate, personally I have nothing to dispute this % but it seems a tad bit high to me.

My unsolicited advice regarding moving forward with a fusion in your case is to seek a second or third opinion and if they are all concur I would go ahead with this surgery. You say that you are "almost completely disabled by pain, my back is very unstable". What kind of life is this? What have you got to lose - you are in alot of pain and chances are it is not going to get any better and it is better to move ahead now then wait and risk permament damage. Personally, a life of pain is nothing anyone should have to live with in my opinion.

Good luck and remeraber that we are here for you.
 
The non-invasive disc decompression.. Is this something your surgeon recommended or something you have seen? What is the process? Please tell me more. I am curious if it's anything like what I described below that I had done. There are various programs and machines that all do the same thing.

I went through what was considered decompression by a machine in which you lay down all strapped in, it's basically a work-out with traction, they call it oscillation. I did this for over a month's time solidly (daily) and it made "0" difference in the hydration of the disc. So if this is what you were referring to, there is no evidence that it helps disc issues of this at all. None of my doctors would even discuss what I thought gave me a really good workout and strengthened by back a tad, but made no difference in the health of the spine though. This was incredibly expensive, which I paid for out of my own pocket and it did not solve any of my spine issues.

I am fused at l4/l5 with instrumentation. I did not have the bone harvest from my hip as my doc used the bone he took out of my spine and placed that into a cage that was then placed into the disc space where he removed the bad disc. Along with the ground bone, he also used a bone growing manmade protein called BMP and put that into the cage as well. I was solidly fused at 7 months.

The more levels that are fused, the success percentage goes down some. I think your doctors percentage of 95% is a tad high, fusion is still highly successful for many. Will you be as good as new? No! But you can be pretty darn close. Unfortunately back surgery is still not a perfected and guarantee to ending a person's back problems or the pain. We are all unique and our results are no different.

The question comes down to what is the quality of your life like now, and if you dont have surgery. If you have exhausted non-surgical ways of trying to make you comfortable and living a fairly normal lifestyle, then maybe it's time to think about surgery as a 'last resort' to trying to help ease your pain or even get pain free.

The healing process is long.. We might initially heal on the surface much faster than we did even 10 years ago with technology and also learning that the patients need to active rather than inactive right out of surgery, the healing time still takes almost as long as it did before.

Let me put it this way, I was 44 when I had my surgery. Incredibly fit except for 3 years leading up to the surgery due to injury, and while I was solidly fused at 7 months and felt pretty darn good, I was still "healing" inside and mentally as well. This surgery is MAJOR and it kicks the crap out of the body. It just does. I can't speak to other surgeries as I have had few in my lifetime, but this just upset my applecart entirely. My system was entirely out of whack and I am 21+ months post surgery now, and heck.. I am "still" healing. I think Im getting to my end stage, but still.

I personally had no choice. My spine was on the verge of collapse at the level and something needed to be done with the vast pain I was constantly in for 3+ years. I have no regrets and would do this surgery again if needed.

I was only given 50/50 odRAB of it helping me and I got 85% improvement.

Ihope this helps give you some more info to think about and others will chime in and let you know their stories and take on things.

I wish you wellness.
 
If you're curious if it's possible to have long-term results from this kind of surgery, I did. I had almost the identical surgery over 20 years ago to repair a Grade IV spondylolisthesis. Prior to that, I'd suffered for 10 years with sciatica, chronic pain, nurabness, and loss of feeling in my toes.

Admittedly, the surgery was painful and the recovery process slow—and I was only 22 when it was done. It took about 9 months (post op) to feel the full benefits. The good news is: it's been over 20 years of feeling GREAT*! I now jog, rollerblade, workout, raised/kept up with my kiRAB, etc. (*small disclaimer: I bent a plate in my back last month that I'm looking to get repaired. I can still workout though!)

If you suffer from arthritis, diabetes, smoke heavily, or are overweight, it may make your recovery process more difficult, so there's much for you to consider. I wish you the best with whatever you decide. For myself, I have no regrets doing it.

My best to you.
Stacey
 
Hello and thankyou Dietpepper, that was a very strong and thoughtful reply, in fact, all your posts are very good, even when you are the one suffering. This is by no means the first surgical consultation, I have had several others. Surgeons do surgery, so when you see one and have a fairly severe condition they have, in my experience, always recommended surgery. Your story illustrates exactly what I do have to lose, not what I can gain, as you yourself stated that you probably have failed back surgery syndrome. Since I posted a few hours ago I did some research on the statistical evidence of success for laminectomies at L4-5 and L5-S1, and quite frankly, it looks like a crap shoot, with over 50% failure at some point in the future, particularly when hardware is used. But you are right in one thing. What do I have to lose? Which is why tomorrow I will travel to a nearby town where there is a clinic that performs non-invasive spinal decompression for not just my kinRAB of problems, but prominently mentioned is their claim to heal "failed back surgery". The treatments require a significant committment in that as many as 30 treatments may be required, on a daily basis. But the theory is sound, and the technology was developed by an Osteopathic doctor and a team of research scientists and engineers over a 12 year period, so it didn't just jump out on the market as a gimmick. As a matter of fact, it sounRAB to me like it might be something that could improve your life as well. I would rather invest 30 days to alleviate multiple areas of nerve compression, restore bulging discs and herniated discs to close to their normal shape, things which this new treatment claims it can do, than offer myself up for a surgery from which there is no turning back, and if it fails then another surgery, and so on. If this spinal decompression treatments work, I will have saved myself from having to take a chance. I will also be able to post my progress if progress is made. If that doesn't work out, if the claims are exaggerated, then I will definitely have to try surgery. But surgeons make exaggerated claims also, so again, what have I got to lose by trying a non-surgical approach? By the way, I am so sorry to hear of your failure. That must be discouraging. Stay strong and my best wishes that you have loving support. That is unfortunately something I don't have, and although I like to think of myself as a strong person, there are moments when I feel frightened and wish that I had someone in my corner...Thanks again for your story....Paulo
 
Hi Stacey,
That was very encouraging news, even though I have heard from others who have had "failed back surgery". Fortunately, I am neither diabetic, a smoker, nor overweight. And from having already had three major surgeries in the past three years, I know that I am a good healer. But you were 22. I am 61, age does make a difference. However, I am hardly in a position to continue to do what I have done for years now, which is to wait and let the back heal itself, which has been fortunately the case. Now there is far too much damage, and the prognosis for the future is bleak. They don't have terms that exceed "severe" degenerative joint disease, severe facet arthropathy, or a severely herniated disc. If they did have one more category of severity, like say totally severe, :) I might wait some more. But at my age I would definitely like to regain use of my back and maintain mobility, so I am headed down one of three roaRAB. Try a non-invasive spinal decompression, do nothing, or surgery. Maybe in the end I will just flip a coin and let fate decide...........Paulo:confused:
 
Hi Moldova. No, your reply did not disappoint me, I have heard the same story many times, which is one of the reasons why I have postponed surgery for many years, and may well do so again, let this flare up heal, gently try and strengthen my back muscles and go as long as I can without surgery. I posted my "please help" plea because I wanted exactly this kind of feedback. This site is wonderful, because you get alot of different peoples experiences on the subject you are seeking information on. Do you mind if I ask if you are diabetic or have any other condition that might have contributed to your failed back surgery? I know that is personal, but every bit of information I get helps me in the decision making process. I hope you have a pain free and wonderful day. Finding peace within ourselves, regardless of how poorly we might be doing medically, is a worthwhile goal to pursue..........Paulo
 
Hi Paulo. I read your last post and you are about to go through what I did and I encourage you to read a "sticky post" called DRX9000. This is 'one' decompression program, but they are all pretty much identical.

Im not telling you not to do it, I just dont recommend it for anyone with disc issues that are hoping to restore and heal their bulging discs back to a normal state or position. In fact, I have not known or heard of anyone that can say that their disc had rehydrated and/or was restored from any decompression program of this nature.

I too was so hoping it would be my ticket to normalcy again. I had been suffering for over 2+ years at that point and walking was beginning to get quite difficult not to mention working with a pain level of 5-7 24/7 each and every day. I spent over $4K on the program, and lost time from work and pay for going through this program.

Admittedly.. the program gave my back an awesome workout. My back felt stronger muscle wise, but it made absolutely no difference to the health of my spine. I had an MRI before I underwent the program and one was done shortly thereafter. No evident changes were noted at all. And none of my surgeons would even talk about the program other than to say it had no merits.

I just want to you have a clear picture of at least my personal experience for this program if you are committed to it, and that it may also flare you up, as it did me through it. The program had to be halted and I was sent for steroid injections in my spine and SI joints before being able to continue the program.

Unfortunately, I ended up having to face surgery anyway. And I am much better today. I am 85% improved and would opt for the surgery again if another disc goes.

I wish you wellness and if do decide to go through it, I do hope that it works for you. Please keep us posted.
 
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