>> good morning, i'm chris jansing and it's not over yet. democrats want to move on after the decision to uphold the law. the political gain to keep the fight going.
>> this has to be ripped out by its roots. this is government taking over the insurance industry . the americans want us to move on.
>> is the fight over?
>> as far as we are concerned the victory is there for the american people .
>> it will be an issue. a big issue in the fall election.
>> in congress, the house will vote next week to repeal health care and republican governors are vowing not to implement the law. part of the message, the surest way to get rid of health care is to get rid of the president and elect mitt romney . let me bring in washington bureau chief and political analyst david corn . good morning.
>> good morning, chris.
>> for republicans what is the political calculation here? aren't they preaching to the converted?
>> it is about getting the route up. you have this big split between the congressional republicans and this guy named mitt romney , their likely candidate. we saw moments ago, eric fern strom on chuck's show saying this whole issue of obama care being a tax is not true. it's a penalty.
>> i will interrupt you right there. let's set it up again. this has been the mantra since the health care decision was handed down on thursday by the supreme court . they have been saying this is essentially a tax. republican after republican. but listen to what eric had to say minutes ago literally.
>> the govern nor believes what we put in place in massachusetts was a penalty. he disagrees with the court's ruling that the mandate was a tax, but again --
>> he agrees with the president? he agrees with the president that it is not and you should not call it a tax, but a penalty or a fee or fine?
>> that's correct.
>> is this a message from the romney campaign to members of congress? get off of this. this is hurting us. we want to talk about the economy?
>> i'm not sure it's an etch a sketch moment, but it's a mr. potato head moment. it sets up this divide. they want to call for the tax and go for repeal. he doesn't want to call it a tax. when it comes to the issue of repeal, most of the internal provisions of obama care rank between 60 and 80% in popularity. the republicans are going to come racing in and throw kids off their parents's plans and go back to preexisting conditions and get rid of the donut hole payment for seniors. i think that romney , i know he is for repeal, but i don't think he wants to campaign on getting rid of all those things yet it helps congressional candidates get their base out and rile things up.
>> that's the interesting point. let me bring in susan paige. what do you think is going on here to have eric a few minutes ago saying i side with the president on this and so does mitt romney ?
>> it shows the difficult we have because it was once the signature achievement. now he doesn't want to talk about it. the presidential race . we will have a situation where neither is going to want to talk about health care for different reasons. we find a majority of americans in the gallup poll we took say they think they want all or part of the law repealed that. makes it tough for president obama to talk about. for governor romney because the law has similarities to the federal law , it's tough for him too. we will have a policy of avoidance on both sides.
>> i'm wondering beyond the congressional races, we are seeing this is being brought up as an issue. bob kerry in nebraska and hidy is someone for whom this could make a difference. republican governors as well. bob mcdonald , nicky haley and bobby jindal saying they will keep fighting by not implementing the law.
>> every governor has two critical decisions. do we set up the exchange or expand medicaid ?
>> is it posturing? what is the problem here as you see it, david, going forward? are we going to continue to see the members of the republican party from congress to governors and contradicting what their party's candidate has to say?
>> i think they will on the overall approach to the health care . i think a lot of governors are talking tough and some will stick with the stand against expanding medicaid . a lot will sort of falloff, particularly if barack obama wins reelection. you have governor martinez in new mexico already saying that she isn't with the republicans for repeal. i do think in terms of the senate races, bob kerry and elsewhere, you will see this issue where the republicans attack obama care as a big concept and say it's a government take over of health care which it isn't. that's a big lie . the democrats are saying listen, do you want the republicans to get rid of all these provisions that i mentioned a few moments ago. that's the fight that if the democrats fight vigorously, they can win or fight to a draw. i don't think that's necessarily a win for republican candidates.
>> let me bring in whit herbert. good morning. what's your thought? are you going to implement the president's health care law in your state?
>> we will follow the law, but whether or not we will expand the medicare portion is under analysis right now. the allure of the federal money, but it costs state taxpayers too. it is all taxpayer money. i'm not sure we can afford as a nation the expanded cost of health care . i am concerned about me balancing my own budget.
>> the supreme court upheld it and the federal money and michigan's governor is talking about how he is going to go with that. in part you have the exchanges that help people shop, but the enticement of federal dollars. what would really be the biggest downside you see. why would you consider seriously not doing the medicaid portion of it?
>> we have an exchange and one of the disappointments and not only is this a divicive issue and it divided the nation in an unprecedented way. states have never been invited to discuss the issue and give input. utah has been involved in health care for a number of years. we have our own exchange and introduced competitive opportunities for the consumer and have a defined contribution rather than a benefit. we let people take the money and shop through the internet through our exchange to find what's best for them. we also have in utah the lowest cost health care and the highest quality. the ratio is good. we are doing good things. i don't want to end up throwing that out for a nationalized one-size fits all program that i don't think is going to work for everybody.
>> we did see that mitt romney had a similar plan in massachusetts when he was governor there. here's what senator schumer had to say about that.
>> mitt romney is in a total pickle here. he prescribed this. this was his bill.
>> romney said of course he wants to repeal the entire health care law even though i'm sure you may have heard in the earlier conversation from eric who poo-pooed the talking point and said it's not a tax. let me ask you about those two things. do you think that this health care law constitutes a tax on the american people ?
>> i think it constitutes a tax because that's what the supreme court said. i always believed it was unconstitutional because it was sold to us as a commerce clause mandate. that was where the authority was coming from. it was the obama administration that flipped. this could be a tax. that's what the supreme court decided. the constitutionality of it is because of the tax. senator schumer said to compare a state-driven approach to a one-size fits all approach where we are mandated to do the same thing is a different situation. i believe in federalism and the laboratories of innovation. with the demographics, let them find ways to solve the issue. we will learn from the ssks massachusetts and the failures of massachusetts . you learn from utah and each other and come up with solutions that will i think eventually give us the right approach.
>> take off your hat to someone who is running this state for your political analysis . if this conversation continues into november, was it as seems to be growing conventional wisdom, does it hurt mitt romney and help some republicans in competitive races down the card? what do you think the practicality is of continuing this conversation especially if it's a focus of the presidential conversation.
>> my crystal ball is as foggy as anybody's with how the out come is, but it's the water cooler topic of the day and it's confusing. most people believe in competitive opportunity in a free market system , but we also i guess human nature said if i can get it free, i want it. if you don't raise my taxes and raise the other people, it's more acceptable to me. my concern is we have been an entitlement mentality in this country whether it's medicare, social security or medicate which is a budget buster for the state. the health care reform is part of this entitlement mentality with a debt and growing. it's well-intended, but i'm not sure we can afford it.
>> thank you so much. we do appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. to go back to his point, is mitt rom no in a pickle?
>> he's in a pickle and he has an answer which is to focus on the economy and what he calls the disappointments. that is the only thing that mitt romney wants to talk about. the fact is that is the number one issue for most americans . while this is an important issue, it's one where the americans are polarized.
>> we have a big day friday. there was a suggestion today in one of the articles that both campaigns have a big red circle around friday because the new unemployment numbers come out. does this stop the conversation about healing care or will it have a life of its own.
>> you have the repeal vote coming up in the house and the republicans will insist on keeping this an issue. it's probably not the determinate issue and will come up in the presidential debates and come up in the advertising campaigns, particularly those waged against president obama from the super pacs and independent groups, but i think the obama campaign are using health care too and targeting hispanic voters who rate them as the top priority and women voters with the positive aspects of obama care we discussed earlier and people approve of in great numbers. this will be part of the campaign and obama will be using it. it may not be a top line issue that we see coming from the president's own mouth again and again and again.
>> david corn and susan paige, great to have both of
>> this has to be ripped out by its roots. this is government taking over the insurance industry . the americans want us to move on.
>> is the fight over?
>> as far as we are concerned the victory is there for the american people .
>> it will be an issue. a big issue in the fall election.
>> in congress, the house will vote next week to repeal health care and republican governors are vowing not to implement the law. part of the message, the surest way to get rid of health care is to get rid of the president and elect mitt romney . let me bring in washington bureau chief and political analyst david corn . good morning.
>> good morning, chris.
>> for republicans what is the political calculation here? aren't they preaching to the converted?
>> it is about getting the route up. you have this big split between the congressional republicans and this guy named mitt romney , their likely candidate. we saw moments ago, eric fern strom on chuck's show saying this whole issue of obama care being a tax is not true. it's a penalty.
>> i will interrupt you right there. let's set it up again. this has been the mantra since the health care decision was handed down on thursday by the supreme court . they have been saying this is essentially a tax. republican after republican. but listen to what eric had to say minutes ago literally.
>> the govern nor believes what we put in place in massachusetts was a penalty. he disagrees with the court's ruling that the mandate was a tax, but again --
>> he agrees with the president? he agrees with the president that it is not and you should not call it a tax, but a penalty or a fee or fine?
>> that's correct.
>> is this a message from the romney campaign to members of congress? get off of this. this is hurting us. we want to talk about the economy?
>> i'm not sure it's an etch a sketch moment, but it's a mr. potato head moment. it sets up this divide. they want to call for the tax and go for repeal. he doesn't want to call it a tax. when it comes to the issue of repeal, most of the internal provisions of obama care rank between 60 and 80% in popularity. the republicans are going to come racing in and throw kids off their parents's plans and go back to preexisting conditions and get rid of the donut hole payment for seniors. i think that romney , i know he is for repeal, but i don't think he wants to campaign on getting rid of all those things yet it helps congressional candidates get their base out and rile things up.
>> that's the interesting point. let me bring in susan paige. what do you think is going on here to have eric a few minutes ago saying i side with the president on this and so does mitt romney ?
>> it shows the difficult we have because it was once the signature achievement. now he doesn't want to talk about it. the presidential race . we will have a situation where neither is going to want to talk about health care for different reasons. we find a majority of americans in the gallup poll we took say they think they want all or part of the law repealed that. makes it tough for president obama to talk about. for governor romney because the law has similarities to the federal law , it's tough for him too. we will have a policy of avoidance on both sides.
>> i'm wondering beyond the congressional races, we are seeing this is being brought up as an issue. bob kerry in nebraska and hidy is someone for whom this could make a difference. republican governors as well. bob mcdonald , nicky haley and bobby jindal saying they will keep fighting by not implementing the law.
>> every governor has two critical decisions. do we set up the exchange or expand medicaid ?
>> is it posturing? what is the problem here as you see it, david, going forward? are we going to continue to see the members of the republican party from congress to governors and contradicting what their party's candidate has to say?
>> i think they will on the overall approach to the health care . i think a lot of governors are talking tough and some will stick with the stand against expanding medicaid . a lot will sort of falloff, particularly if barack obama wins reelection. you have governor martinez in new mexico already saying that she isn't with the republicans for repeal. i do think in terms of the senate races, bob kerry and elsewhere, you will see this issue where the republicans attack obama care as a big concept and say it's a government take over of health care which it isn't. that's a big lie . the democrats are saying listen, do you want the republicans to get rid of all these provisions that i mentioned a few moments ago. that's the fight that if the democrats fight vigorously, they can win or fight to a draw. i don't think that's necessarily a win for republican candidates.
>> let me bring in whit herbert. good morning. what's your thought? are you going to implement the president's health care law in your state?
>> we will follow the law, but whether or not we will expand the medicare portion is under analysis right now. the allure of the federal money, but it costs state taxpayers too. it is all taxpayer money. i'm not sure we can afford as a nation the expanded cost of health care . i am concerned about me balancing my own budget.
>> the supreme court upheld it and the federal money and michigan's governor is talking about how he is going to go with that. in part you have the exchanges that help people shop, but the enticement of federal dollars. what would really be the biggest downside you see. why would you consider seriously not doing the medicaid portion of it?
>> we have an exchange and one of the disappointments and not only is this a divicive issue and it divided the nation in an unprecedented way. states have never been invited to discuss the issue and give input. utah has been involved in health care for a number of years. we have our own exchange and introduced competitive opportunities for the consumer and have a defined contribution rather than a benefit. we let people take the money and shop through the internet through our exchange to find what's best for them. we also have in utah the lowest cost health care and the highest quality. the ratio is good. we are doing good things. i don't want to end up throwing that out for a nationalized one-size fits all program that i don't think is going to work for everybody.
>> we did see that mitt romney had a similar plan in massachusetts when he was governor there. here's what senator schumer had to say about that.
>> mitt romney is in a total pickle here. he prescribed this. this was his bill.
>> romney said of course he wants to repeal the entire health care law even though i'm sure you may have heard in the earlier conversation from eric who poo-pooed the talking point and said it's not a tax. let me ask you about those two things. do you think that this health care law constitutes a tax on the american people ?
>> i think it constitutes a tax because that's what the supreme court said. i always believed it was unconstitutional because it was sold to us as a commerce clause mandate. that was where the authority was coming from. it was the obama administration that flipped. this could be a tax. that's what the supreme court decided. the constitutionality of it is because of the tax. senator schumer said to compare a state-driven approach to a one-size fits all approach where we are mandated to do the same thing is a different situation. i believe in federalism and the laboratories of innovation. with the demographics, let them find ways to solve the issue. we will learn from the ssks massachusetts and the failures of massachusetts . you learn from utah and each other and come up with solutions that will i think eventually give us the right approach.
>> take off your hat to someone who is running this state for your political analysis . if this conversation continues into november, was it as seems to be growing conventional wisdom, does it hurt mitt romney and help some republicans in competitive races down the card? what do you think the practicality is of continuing this conversation especially if it's a focus of the presidential conversation.
>> my crystal ball is as foggy as anybody's with how the out come is, but it's the water cooler topic of the day and it's confusing. most people believe in competitive opportunity in a free market system , but we also i guess human nature said if i can get it free, i want it. if you don't raise my taxes and raise the other people, it's more acceptable to me. my concern is we have been an entitlement mentality in this country whether it's medicare, social security or medicate which is a budget buster for the state. the health care reform is part of this entitlement mentality with a debt and growing. it's well-intended, but i'm not sure we can afford it.
>> thank you so much. we do appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. to go back to his point, is mitt rom no in a pickle?
>> he's in a pickle and he has an answer which is to focus on the economy and what he calls the disappointments. that is the only thing that mitt romney wants to talk about. the fact is that is the number one issue for most americans . while this is an important issue, it's one where the americans are polarized.
>> we have a big day friday. there was a suggestion today in one of the articles that both campaigns have a big red circle around friday because the new unemployment numbers come out. does this stop the conversation about healing care or will it have a life of its own.
>> you have the repeal vote coming up in the house and the republicans will insist on keeping this an issue. it's probably not the determinate issue and will come up in the presidential debates and come up in the advertising campaigns, particularly those waged against president obama from the super pacs and independent groups, but i think the obama campaign are using health care too and targeting hispanic voters who rate them as the top priority and women voters with the positive aspects of obama care we discussed earlier and people approve of in great numbers. this will be part of the campaign and obama will be using it. it may not be a top line issue that we see coming from the president's own mouth again and again and again.
>> david corn and susan paige, great to have both of