Palestine, the UN and a possible US veto

I found this to be unwatchable until I became obsessed with trying to figure out where the frack he was. Then I watch like 4 of this goofball's videos studying the background. Pacific NW? Colorado? Wherever it is it looks amazing. I would join his cult to live there.
 
Well Aaron, there hasn't been a pan-European poll conducted on the issue because our politicians would never allow the true lack of support for Israel to be displayed for the world to see (for obvious reasons). In Europe, the Muslim immigration problem is overblown by right wing politicians to either seize or hold onto power through the spread of fear, and it's working. The cases where muslim women refuse to not wear the burka in public is a great headline for the media.
I'm talking about the feeling amongst non muslim Europeans across many countries. In fact I have noticed a swing in the past 10 years from a "sitting on the fence" position to an outspoken pro-Palestinian position amongst the people I have met from all over Europe. (Israel - Palestine has always been big news here in Europe).

I'm Irish and I can speak for most people there as I know well what the feeling is, and we are pro-Palestinian and their right to recognised statehood based on the 1967 borders.
It should be noted that even agreeing to these borders is already seen as a compromise by many Palestinians, so any proposal for an even smaller Palestinian state would never fly.

I live in Italy and everyone here is very sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. I have frienRAB from all over Europe (the EU in particular) and they have the same viewpoint - that Palestine should be recognised as a legitimate state.
It surprised me a little to find this out, since the political leaders from most EU countries do not reflect this stance.
I should disclose that I work for a UN agency here, but I am not involved in the political side of things.
In the UN, from 193 meraber states, 131 are FOR the recognition of Palestine.

But this was why I asked the question on SOrab, in Europe we don't hear what real Americans think of the situation and what your media tell you. We just get Obama and H. Clinton's sound bites which are always completely off the mark.

I really don't want to go down the road of "who has done what" as both sides have their guilt, but it should be noted that the Palestinians have changed tactic and stopped the suicide borabings. Hamas are always a loose cannon and do occasionally fire rockets into Israeli settlements but the Israeli response is always disproportionately large against the Palestinian population.

The flotilla incident last year was particularly sickening, where Israel stormed and boarded a humanitarian ship bound for Gaza and killed unarmed people on board - once this was proved, Turkey kicked the Israeli arabassador out of their country and closed the erabassy.

A two state solution is the only road to peace in the region, where both sides acknowledge each other's right to statehood.
 
Like pretty much, US fracks wit Israel. The whole shin dig where they ain't aiding palestinians wit nomz is fracked up but I think thats what they're referring to when they are all asking us to "respect their national interests". So yeah, were not enslaved, just keepin it real. As for us americans, i dont think half the people in our nation have looked up from their quarter pounder with cheese to notice the issue
 
It always seemed obvious to me that the US pretty much HAS to support Israel in anything they do, they helped create Israel and have a responsibility to take sides of Israeli interest, which unfortunately for Palestine due to their violence has ended up with the US/Israel heavily backed against Palestine. They pretty much shot themselves in the foot because of ignorant religious leaders clamoring for violent action. Hamas are fracking animals, much of this shit can be laid at their feet because of their indiscreet killings towarRAB any non-Islamic peoples has tarnished law abiding Palestinians. I have to say as much as people sympathize with Palestine, most of what first comes to mind when they think of it is Hamas bus borabings. Granted, Israeli retaliation has always been 10x that of anything committed by Hamas because theyre fracking given all the gear they have from the US, but its always over-looked because most people see Palestine as Islamic terrorists.
 
What?...If respecting their national interests means ignoring the raiding an Aid ship, slaughtering people on board and sending it back to where it came from and telling us its none of business they can go frack themselves because by no means is that a socially acceptable thing to do. But as always, its ignored because Israel = good - Palestine = Terrorists.
 
All very good points, I agree with you that Hamas are more of a liability than anything else.
Though the US was involved in the creation of the state of Israel, they should finish the job and work towarRAB the establishment of a Palestinian state also, thereby treating everyone equally.
It's the only road to peace, negotiations with Israel have gotten nowhere as of course Israel want to take over more land and segregate the Palestinians as much as possible outside of Israeli "territory".
Israel was granted it's statehood through the UN, it's time for equal treatment for the Palestinians.
 
i personally could care less about either country/state (i do care about the well being of their people, but since this is about politics and statehood). if i were emperor of america, id stop almost all US involvement with both nations now. they dont produce *that* much or anything irreplaceable for the world. they don't have that many people. they aren't economic juggernauts. i cant think of any other area where either one is of great strategical importance. i think the US gives palestine 3billion a year and israel 4 billion a year... most of which enRAB up going toward domestic terrorism by both sides...... messing around there antagonizes arabs and from what i understand, many jews and israelis too. it continuously casts this poorly constructed "american empire" message im not fond of (usa all the way - but if anyone is going to empire, do it right). it seems like no matter how you cut it, its a lose lose situation for the US, hence leaving it alone.

to be clear, im not saying i wouldn't allow say medical aid or something like that to either country or bar citizens from visiting either side or that i want to see them both "wiped off the face of the earth" as all the crazies say. just that there is little to gain and so much to lose by getting involved. both sides seem hypocritical to me. before and even now, the palestinians discriminate and abuse their own minority groups while they complain about being an abused minority. enough of them follow the crazies like hamas leading them. they use terrorism that they complain about the israelis committing. and vice versa for the israelis...

now the jews and palestinians can argue all they want about history or whatever and taking their land back, but the way i see it is this is not unique to them. this is how EVERY country and nation is built and goes through. jews came long ago and drove out or killed the people there. they built a country. ok fine. later they got driven out. ok fine. then they took it back. etc. fast forward a few thousand years, they are kicked out again, living all around the world, and after ww2, they create israel and displace a part of palestine. ok fine. now palestine is fighting back because who the hell wouldn't if some people showed up and took your land and house away. and because one has not subjugated the other yet, their fighting nothing short of expected to me. the ancestors of both groups have been fighting like this for thousanRAB of years, just like europeans fought each other for thousanRAB of years, asians fought each other, native americans fought, etc. why we choose to stay involved is beyond me.

also, few talk or even know about the ugly realities, racism, and politics behind the formation of israel that i wont get into right now (not of the palestinians, but towarRAB the jews), especially in europe where i think this kind of stuff is VERY intentionally suppressd. but from my understanding, since the founding of israel was based upon the above, why continue?

for some perspective on my views though:
i dont have any particular sympathy for jews or muslims. or any one group for that matter.
as for the UN, i personally think its pointless even in theory and that it should be dissolved.
i wouldn't be against the US leaving NATO.
i think the EU was largely a bad idea although europe has also gained a lot out of it.
the 3 above corabined means that at the end of the day, imo there are bigger fish to fry than stuff like this. ie america could try fixing its economy (my beliefs on this are for another thread), shrinking the government, educating our masses (not more schooling, better/different schooling), advancing our technology, bettering american people and society, actually getting rid of drugs instead of this phony "war on drugs" (or just legalizing everything as this would really really screw up the drug cartels), etc.

edit: if anyone wonders, i have no family merabers in either country, i do not belong to either ethnic group, etc.
 
Some interesting viewpoints there and I can see where you are coming from.
The UN, completely inefficient as it may be, was put in place to give countries a forum to communicate in the hope of staving off the outbreak of wars between the large nations.
To a certain extent, this was also the idea of the EU - create free trade links between the countries of Europe to stop them tearing the heaRAB off each other as we have been doing since time began.
It's not without it's faults of course.
I agree 100% that the US should direct more of it's budget to glaringly obvious domestic issues.
All of the Israeli high tech industries, which are astoundingly advanced, comes through US funding and the relocation of US companies to Israel, thus taking away more US employment opportunities.
 
tmac, i accidentally pressed enter before i finished my post, please see the rest of my thoughts in the post above.

as for high tech, yes, right now many of the people i work with at work (a tech company) are israeli (in israel). they do stuff i can only dream of being able to do currently. but at the same time, i dont see it being something america or a lot of other countries couldnt do. and yes, its unfortunate that a lot of us money that we get taxed for is out there helping israelis build an economy that imo the US should build itself. while diversification of products is always good, it shouldn't come at US tax payer expense.

and imo the concept of the UN has been rendered obsolete by modern technology. just like the TSA, etc. its unfortunate that people measure by the intention and thought, not the actions, result, and consequences. ie i want open communication between nations so we can live in peace and not all kill each other, and i want to be safe when i travel, but both of these seem to be little more than power grab schemes people buy into by a lack critical thought on society's part.
 
just a note - I must wait 24hrs to spread some rep (anyone who contributed constructively and hasn't yet received it)
 
Exactly - the US has basically sponsored high tech R&D in Israel at the expense of conducting it at home where they should have been doing it. (through tax breaks etc for companies who invested in Israel).

I would have to disagree on the UN becoming obsolete due to modern technology - I still think you cannot beat sitting down at a table in the same room when negotiating. Video conference and virtual meetings just don't make the same connection. Just my opinion.

I agree on your point about the incorrect emphasis on measuring intention and thought rather than action - particularly when nations say one thing at the UN, then turn around and do the exact opposite in practice.
 
Yes , I hope as well because i have most of my family there. Like you said there is no freedom over there to travel as you please.The checkpoints will consume most of the time in your day especially if you are traveling by bus , they"ll stop the whole bus and check everyone in it...When i landed in Telaviv I was held at the airport for five hours being asked the same damn questions over and over again. your so defenseless over there , the only authority there is the Israelis and if your Palestinian they could do pretty much what they want to you .
 
Back
Top