bigbadwolf
New member
...teaches that sex...? out of marriage is wrong (given multiple mistranslations and numerous interpretations).
Also consider this.
There is absolutely nothing in the bible forbidding premarital sex. It is one of the traditions that is man made to control people. The only reference is in the OT and in the NT only the total mistranslation of the Greek word "porneia" as "fornication" - a clear lie that has no basis.
I hear from so many Christian women who say there biggest mistake was not having more sex before marriage and now find themselves in such a totally unsatisfying relationship physically. Where is one to learn good sex skills when both partners are ignorant? There is far more to sex than just having intercourse. Studies show about 40% of women never have an orgasm from just intercourse and most women enjoy far more. That is why so many women are sexually frustrated when a man doesn't have a clue- how is he supposed to learn, or the women learn of her own sexuality if they go into marriage clueless without much experience?
Due to the patriarchal society, a family with sons was stronger than a family with daughters. However, cultures find ways to balance wealth and power. In the OT culture, a man seeking marriage would pay the father of the bride. The value of the bride was determined by many factors including her beauty, ability to bear children, strength, various household skills and even her status as a virgin. You find an example of this in the story of Jacob and Leah and Rachel.
Also remember in biblical times most young women were betrothed based on a family financial deal. Sometimes she never even had met her husband until the wedding day. And once betrothed they families had to wait until the girl was 12.5 year old before they could marry. Since most boys and girls were married by the time of puberty and there was little dating, singles sexuality was never an issues.
In biblical times there was nothing wrong with a married man having as many wives as he could afford, concubine and "common" prostitutes. Adultery was only wrong for a married women, since it violated her husbands property (and sexual) rights over her and his other wives or concubines.
In biblical times men were masters, and ruled over women and their children. Women had very few rights, and men often bought women from their families or at an auction usually at age 12.5. Women were owned property of a man. Father own women (daughters, wives, concubines, handmaidens, servants etc) and if you wanted to have sex with one of his property, then you had to ask him permission.
To sell a daughter they would get more money if she was a virgin, non-virgin were cheaper to buy. If a man bought a daughter at a virgin price and she was not (after he had sex with her and the bedding was not bloody), then he could return her to the father and get his money back.
Some Concubines were war gifts to soldier for fighting good in battle. They would kill all the men and then divide up all the women to the fighting men. Some concubines were bought at auctions. Prostitute rented themselves on time-limited basics and was never wrong (common not temple prostitutes worshiping the fertility gods - idolatry was wrong not prostitution). It was better to buy a woman then rent one. They had no condoms, or birth control or modern medicines in the Bible days. Most sex rules were just to solve a practical problem of the time.
Today women have the same sexual freedoms that men have always had. But to try and preach that responsible non-monogamy, premarital sex, swinging, polyamory or fornication is somehow wrong, simply shows biblical ignorance. But the sexual repressive teachings that developed in the middle ages are still followed today based on repressive Christian traditions - out of ignorance and having no biblical basis.
OT Passages
Exodus 22:16 - 17, "If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the dowry for virgins."
Deuteronomy 22:28 - 29, "If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days."
Also, I've always been confused by the fact that people will argue that sex outside of marriage complicates things and makes things more difficult. If that were true, wouldn't they also complicate and make things difficult in marriage? How does sex suddenly become something that binds two people together when they are in marriage, but is destructive outside of marriage?
Happyli....I am not trying to lecture. But...professing christians seem to pretty at it (you included).
Well, even if I agree that the correct translation for fonication means we shouldn't have sex, why do so many christians not follow other parts of the bible just as strictly. Leviticus to be precise. Do you "put your wife out the house during her monthly cycle". Do you "wear cloths made of two different fabric" (be sure and throw out all your cotton/poly blend stuff). Did you wait twice as long to take your new baby girl to church as your baby boy because baby girls are twice as unclean? I doubt it.
Thanks you Cindy. Well stated.
Also consider this.
There is absolutely nothing in the bible forbidding premarital sex. It is one of the traditions that is man made to control people. The only reference is in the OT and in the NT only the total mistranslation of the Greek word "porneia" as "fornication" - a clear lie that has no basis.
I hear from so many Christian women who say there biggest mistake was not having more sex before marriage and now find themselves in such a totally unsatisfying relationship physically. Where is one to learn good sex skills when both partners are ignorant? There is far more to sex than just having intercourse. Studies show about 40% of women never have an orgasm from just intercourse and most women enjoy far more. That is why so many women are sexually frustrated when a man doesn't have a clue- how is he supposed to learn, or the women learn of her own sexuality if they go into marriage clueless without much experience?
Due to the patriarchal society, a family with sons was stronger than a family with daughters. However, cultures find ways to balance wealth and power. In the OT culture, a man seeking marriage would pay the father of the bride. The value of the bride was determined by many factors including her beauty, ability to bear children, strength, various household skills and even her status as a virgin. You find an example of this in the story of Jacob and Leah and Rachel.
Also remember in biblical times most young women were betrothed based on a family financial deal. Sometimes she never even had met her husband until the wedding day. And once betrothed they families had to wait until the girl was 12.5 year old before they could marry. Since most boys and girls were married by the time of puberty and there was little dating, singles sexuality was never an issues.
In biblical times there was nothing wrong with a married man having as many wives as he could afford, concubine and "common" prostitutes. Adultery was only wrong for a married women, since it violated her husbands property (and sexual) rights over her and his other wives or concubines.
In biblical times men were masters, and ruled over women and their children. Women had very few rights, and men often bought women from their families or at an auction usually at age 12.5. Women were owned property of a man. Father own women (daughters, wives, concubines, handmaidens, servants etc) and if you wanted to have sex with one of his property, then you had to ask him permission.
To sell a daughter they would get more money if she was a virgin, non-virgin were cheaper to buy. If a man bought a daughter at a virgin price and she was not (after he had sex with her and the bedding was not bloody), then he could return her to the father and get his money back.
Some Concubines were war gifts to soldier for fighting good in battle. They would kill all the men and then divide up all the women to the fighting men. Some concubines were bought at auctions. Prostitute rented themselves on time-limited basics and was never wrong (common not temple prostitutes worshiping the fertility gods - idolatry was wrong not prostitution). It was better to buy a woman then rent one. They had no condoms, or birth control or modern medicines in the Bible days. Most sex rules were just to solve a practical problem of the time.
Today women have the same sexual freedoms that men have always had. But to try and preach that responsible non-monogamy, premarital sex, swinging, polyamory or fornication is somehow wrong, simply shows biblical ignorance. But the sexual repressive teachings that developed in the middle ages are still followed today based on repressive Christian traditions - out of ignorance and having no biblical basis.
OT Passages
Exodus 22:16 - 17, "If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the dowry for virgins."
Deuteronomy 22:28 - 29, "If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days."
Also, I've always been confused by the fact that people will argue that sex outside of marriage complicates things and makes things more difficult. If that were true, wouldn't they also complicate and make things difficult in marriage? How does sex suddenly become something that binds two people together when they are in marriage, but is destructive outside of marriage?
Happyli....I am not trying to lecture. But...professing christians seem to pretty at it (you included).
Well, even if I agree that the correct translation for fonication means we shouldn't have sex, why do so many christians not follow other parts of the bible just as strictly. Leviticus to be precise. Do you "put your wife out the house during her monthly cycle". Do you "wear cloths made of two different fabric" (be sure and throw out all your cotton/poly blend stuff). Did you wait twice as long to take your new baby girl to church as your baby boy because baby girls are twice as unclean? I doubt it.
Thanks you Cindy. Well stated.