My nightmare Advanced Motor Sports (AMS) experience

L

Ladiie_Tempah

New member
Hi my name is Toni Nash, General Manager of AMS Ducati, and I feel it is my responsibility to this community as well as our company to reply to this post.

Jeff Nash, owner of AMS Ducati, called the General Sales Manager in Dallas, Scott Davison and asked him to go pick up a customer
 
Hey Toni,

While it is great that you felt (or someone asked you) to respond, I don't know of how anyone can bill someone $1000 for pick-up, damage estimate and storage of a bike for 40 days. That's completely absurd in every possible dimension of reality.

Insurance companies that I've dealt with on rare occasion for claims - do not provide a breakdown of what they are paying for - it's for the customer to apply the payment to whatever they want. These days, it has gotten more specific, but things still won't be itemized as such. (For example: will pay for pick-up but not storage, will pay for tank, but not levers, and so forth...)

I know all the tricks of the trade, but from other's comments on how you guys charge, the truth is quite clear. And it's not in your favor.

You don't pick up and drag a bike into the back of a pick-up, van or anything else without the key. The ONLY exception is when the owner gives you his or her express permission to do so. You could damage the bike very easily just by moving it as such.

I'd love to see pictures of the damage. Anyone who has ever owned a bike that has ever been knocked over or had enough common sense will know - whether the damage inflicted came from something else besides being bumped & knocked over due to a parking lot incident.

Bottom line: your explanation doesn't support the facts. And it only further proves what he was stating. I'd politely suggest you drop the defense. It's not making you look any better.

$1000 - for damage estimate (@ most 1 hr. labor - figure $100, and say 1 hr labor for picking up the bike - which NEVER should have been done without the owner's permission to pick it up as such, so say another $100, then 40 days storage, that should be no more than $50, plus 1/2 hour to help him load the bike up and lend him - you could even GIVE him the straps and it'd still be less than $100)

GRAND TOTAL: $350. WOW. That's Some inflation.... Talk about your customers...

But wait, it gets better. Then there is the $1200 for the bike. Hmmm.... I know what every single part on that bike can sell for on the used market. The lowest you should have offered him is at least TRIPLE that amount. You might as well have kicked him square in the nuts and taken his wallet. Frankly it'd be less insulting. Plus it'd save time. I'm all in the interest of saving time...

Here's what happened: you made assumptions on the customers behalf - without permission that either inflicted physical damage to the bike, and/or certainly caused him to bear a financial burden that did not properly reflect the actual work involved up to that point.

If you are so adamant about defending yourself, then show everyone - with the owner's permission of course, the EXACT ITEMIZATION of that $1000 invoice. The owner can then post pics of his bike.

You want the truth? That is the ONLY way it will come out. So guys, show your hands. Let's see once and for all...
 
While it is great that you felt (or someone asked you) to respond, I don't know of how anyone can bill someone $1000 for pick-up, damage estimate and storage of a bike for 40 days. That's completely absurd in every possible dimension of reality.

We Charged $200.00 for the estimate that took an "A" Technician over 3 hours to complete all the paperwork involved.
We did not however charge for all the time the technician and managers took to handle all phone calls with adjusters for this gentleman or technical questions the adjuster had.

We charged $200.00 for the pick up and delivery that took over 2 hours and I had to send two employees.

The storage fees were for the insurance company and they approved the quote and gave him a check. The gentleman was paid.

You don't pick up and drag a bike into the back of a pick-up, van or anything else without the key. The ONLY exception is when the owner gives you his or her express permission to do so. You could damage the bike very easily just by moving it as such.

The owner asked us to pick the bike up. He didnt have the key. Two men picked the bike up into the back of the van.


Bottom line: your explanation doesn't support the facts. And it only further proves what he was stating. I'd politely suggest you drop the defense. It's not making you look any better

How do you know what the facts are????

$1000 - for damage estimate (@ most 1 hr. labor - figure $100, and say 1 hr labor for picking up the bike - which NEVER should have been done without the owner's permission to pick it up as such, so say another $100, then 40 days storage, that should be no more than $50, plus 1/2 hour to help him load the bike up and lend him - you could even GIVE him the straps and it'd still be less than $100)

Again, we had his permission, he called us. WE DID GIVE HIM THE STRAPS.

I would love to post all the information, as a matter of fact I have all of it from the insurance company.

You want the truth? That is the ONLY way it will come out. So guys, show your hands. Let's see once and for all...
 
Toni it seems the control mods deleted your thread and my post over at ducati.ms.

I think you have gone over and above what other shops would have done involving this 20/20 and his motorcycle.

It is obvious he has some problems and thinks he has been wronged but the history of AMS and their relationship with the ducati community is well known.

A big thank you and to the rest of you guys over at AMS for all you do (even you giannis).

You guys rock!
 
Really oneducs? Well, let's add this up, shall we??...

Look guys, here's a PM I just received from Jeff after my last post on this issue:

"Please don't bother calling me for free technical advise or tips anymore.

All the best,
Jeff Nash"

It sounded funny, it looked funny. I called it as I saw it. If you think that people don't talk, then you're barking up the wrong tree Jeff & Toni. It's what customers do.

I have spoken to Jeff on rare occasion. Both and his staff have always been polite to me and vice versa. If you re-read my post, you'll note that I asked both parties to show their hands to resolve the dispute.

So Toni gets ticked off and whines to Jeff. I get the boot. If you truly value your customers, you'd clarify the problem, resolve the dispute and try to keep the faith. Not drop them the first opportunity you get.

Dealers want you to take all of their B.S. and more - however they feel appropriate, but the minute you disagree, align yourself with another customer or discuss things which have occured, you get snubbed.

But that's water under the bridge now, so let's dissect their response, shall we?....
3 hrs for a damage estimate with an "A" technician? What alphabet are you using????? More like F (minus).Bike pick-ups should either be: (A) free within the local vicinity, or (B) a flate rate based on distance from the dealership.No one in their right mind leaves the key in the ignition, and/or their bike unlocked in a public garage for several hours??? It's a Ducati, of course he's going to lock it. (He better!) And don't tell me he gave you permission to literally drag his precious $15,000+ bike into the back of a van while its steering lock is on. Here's his quote in case your selective memory is on (it's in english):When AMS finally did get around to picking up the bike, they headed to the hospital without calling me first to get the key. Remember that tank dent? Betcha they dropped it trying to load it into the van. Here's their quote: "...they had a very difficult time loading the bike into the van..." Hmmm... sounds fishy. Finally, why did you send two technician's to pick up a single bike? I'm sure you thought was unlocked. Yet having 2 techs to pick up 1 bike - that's YOUR choice Jeff/Toni and YOUR expense. And yet, you feared theft - which wasn't your responsibility. Obviously if it was parked there he wasn't super concerned about it being stolen. Unattended Ducati can be easily stolen in less than 30 secs. Even dumped ones... Still, you took upon yourself to take a HUGE risk in further damaging a customer's bike just to stick in the van. Regardless of all else: THAT'S ONLY $400. WHERE IN THE HELL IS THE OTHER $600 COMING FROM???? I know what NYC parking costs as I happen to work in Manhattan on Park Ave. Were you charging him by the hour? Or, did he get a free umbrella girl? - Maybe you charged an umbrella girl by the hour?
Fine, you gave him the straps. WOW. I'm impressed. But unless they're diamond-studded, straps + storage for 40 days still does not add up to $600. That's just shy of the average major service taking several hours worth of labor plus parts. Something doesn't add up right.

The attitude does, but the money does not. I'm sure the communication could have been better on both sides, which is how these things happen, but he's airing a greivance which is his right. You can air yours.

His story: plausible. Yours (at best): highly suspect.

And as I stated, I've heard in many circles about your billing practices. What I've been told from many customers is that your pricing and service charges are unacceptably high. I believe it looking at the pricing of your new & used bikes. That is why many of those same customers I've spoken to now frequent: European Cycle Sports (Plano, TX), Eurosport Cycle (Fort Worth, TX), and I think some have also been attrited (flew to in top gear) to Ducati of Waco. I usually hear of the first two though...

The snub is precious though... isn't it? I HIGHLY suggest you shop around. Ducati is as much about community as it is about our shared passion. - And that includes treating people (read: customers) right. Not snubbing them or getting argumentative on forums the first chance you get...
 
Here's my "FWIW" (For What It's Worth) thoughts:

I have been involved with motorcycles for over 43 years, turned pro the day I turned 16 and as the old T-shirt says, "I eat, sleep, ride, talk, breathe, dream, live and love motorcycles".

Since the drab days of the early '80s when bike shops were struggling to stay alive, they have, for the most part, turned sterile. No passion. No customer service. No inspiration. No true love. The days of the "friend who owns a bike shop" in the '60s and 70s are long gone. The exception to this rule are "most" Ducati shops.

I have found AMS Ducati to be the incarnation of all that I loved about the local bike shop of the early days of my motorcycling career. They have a passion for motorcycles, and if you've been to their shop or one of their track-days, you'd understand.

Jeff and Toni run a first class operation and, while it is expensive to own a Ducati, all transactions I have witnessed have been ethical and above board. Toni is always plesant and quick to smile and Jeff is a true racer, always willing to engage on any topic from dirt-track to MotoGP to SBK. Jeff, Stuart and the rest of the mechanics are top-notch and the ONLY people I will allow to wrench my 1098 and, hopefully sooner rather than later, new Desmosedici.

To say AMS Ducati exists only for money and are out to deliberately screw their customers is unfair and, frankly, uncalled for.

It is my hope that no rider is dissuaded from becoming a new customer to AMS. I have been treated well and I know of no person that has been treated any different.

HORNETDRIVER
 
Everyone needs to figure out things for themselves. I've been treated well by dealers who've treated others like crap - as I've watched them.

It is better to not view things in a fishbowl, but if they are providing great service to you and so forth go, there is no reason to discontinue. Jeff is one of the most knowlegable people on the face of Ducati.

Some, like to just quote from their own, myopic, narrow-minded perspective, like oneducs.

I'll give you one example. I used to go to dealer in Ft. Montgomery, NY. I started back in 1999. Over the years we became like family. Every time I went there I was happy and in my element. I had heard stories and occasionally seen things. In the end, I received it - and a full dose no doubt. It was the end of me spending over $10,000 annually in their shop on parts. And for the doubters, I have 99% of the receipts... I spend much more than that now...

It is more helpful to truly understand things, but when it comes to other customers/riders (meaning us vs. dealers) if there is any reasonable doubt, I will always take sides with the rider/customer. If someone is just slamming them left and right without any basis whatsoever, I will accordingly try to curtail such onslaught.

And whether it's argumentative or not, I've spoken to.. somewhere between 15-20 people who've specifically left AMS because of the billing & attitudes. Funny how things shift when you've been around long enough - and I don't mean age alone.

I know an awful lot of dirt on a handful of "premiere" dealers. - You'd be surprised if you listened with an open mind. And I've been there, watched and listened as in many cases, such things have been confirmed. AMS is one. That doesn't and didn't mean my dealings with them were negative in any way. They never were. But I've been around and on many, many Ducati forums over the years. I spend more time surfing the web doing Ducati stuff then most anyone will ever possibly hope to appreciate. If you need numbers to clarify, 6-10 hours daily on average. SOLID. Try that for about 10 years and you'll see where I stack up.

What I do expect from adults however, is to be able to disagree and - if something, anything is salvageable, to try and keep the relationship on positive terms. Even if you have to argue it out. I've been there. Just because the people that are there don't say otherwise doesn't mean it never happened. Ones who were dissatisfied with their experience will take their bikes and money elsewhere. You may never happen upon them. I have.

NO ONE IS PERFECT. That said, AMS are the experts - NOT THE CUSTOMER. If they were so clear and great at communicating with this customer, all would have been resolved and he never would have posted that comment. At worst it would've constituted a small quip over one line item. I do IT Project Mgmt & Business & Systems analysis. The enterprise environments I get thrown into are far more complex than any motorcycle or dealership could hope to be - and almost all of the problems almost always come down to one thing: COMMUNICATION.

I'd still like to know what that additional $600 constituted. Storage and....???? I'm not judging things by my own personal history, but by what each party is eliciting. Why am I judging in the first place? Because it's being posted on a public forum. And taking both sides with a grain of salt, AMS' side just doesn't add up.

Further, I'd REALLY like to see pics of that bike. I can immediately answer as to whether or not the damage to to tank was incurred as a result of something - other than a parking lot incident.

Last comment and then I'm not posting any more on this thread:
I've seen bikes knocked over whose owners were never told. I've had some of the most experienced field professionals - caught out technically on something regarding Ducatis and other components. That includes parts they told me didn't exist which I at the time had in my hand. I've had "A" techs tell me the WRONG thing. Multiple times. I've seen the most experienced dealers F-up jobs. And I've listened as dealers griped to me about one another. Some of the things I've heard are quite shocking. And you must remember, I know these people personally...

It's not about who's your friend, your buddy your pal, but rather it's a search for the truth. And as one knowledgable person told me many years ago, the world of Ducati is like (please pardon the expression) - like an onion. The more you peel away at it, the more B.S. you go through, the more you learn. The closer you get to the truth.

The minute you immediately doubt someone's story without trying to properly frame things, is the same minute you stop using sound judgement. But when it happens to you... always on depending on circumstances, these are the same people that are the first to cry and the first to ask for sympathy. And I've seen that plenty of times too.

I don't go around slamming people, but if it comes up, I'll usually provide my own experience. I'll certainly inquire about the situation in more detail, but in the end, it's not too hard to smell B.S. And having the history of exposure that I do, you'd be wise to ask.

I NEVER said AMS tries to screw everyone. I DID say Jeff and his team have always been nice to me. I DID say that others - many others feel they were overcharged and didn't like the attitudes so they left. I DID say that Jeff and his team are among the most technically competent people in the industry. And I AM encouraging people to shop around - FIRST.

And I do believe 20/20 more than I do AMS. He even defended people just slamming them, asking for AMS to provide their own statement in contrast. But Toni's explanation still comes up short.
Jeff probably thinks I'm now sin incarnate. Whatever. I've always been a proponent of their servicing capabilities. I just believed the customer and IMMEDIATELY GOT SNUBBED. That should tell you something about the attitude. The best way to keep your business afloat, to profit from the goodwill a dealership has been trying to build over the years is to RETAIN YOUR CUSTOMERS. Not piss them off in bulk. I do affect a dealership's business. And I CAN & DO steer business toward or away from a dealership. ONE SINGLE CUSTOMER CAN APPRECIABLY AFFECT A DEALER'S BOTTOM LINE.

AMS had the opportunity to salvage things at any time. Nope. They took the road of the self-proclaimed high and mighty. Inflated billing & bike-dragging or not. Snobbery gets you nowhere. But it does get you something - less business. Don't worry Jeff, Toni. I CERTAINLY KNOW WHERE TO STEER THINGS NOW...
 
Back
Top