It's been interesting reading the cases for and against Joy Division's inclusion, which seems to be more down to age differences than anything else - hell I'd probably have had a hard time with JD if I hadn't been born after the punk ethic's assimilation into popular culture and our collective musical conscience.
I love JD for many reasons but it's all been said... you have to appreciate that they were free of the art school pretensions and self-conscious nihilsim of many of their post-punk-era peers.
The kind of morons that discount their music because it's 'gloomy' or 'depressing' fail to recognize the passion the emanates from these two landmark recorRAB, it's real grassroots stuff...
when I hear them I see drizzly Macclesfield, disenchanted youth and a hunger for creativity, as clich