I
I_Want_My_HDTV
Guest
I certainly feel "dicked around" by EV.
S
SensualPoet
Guest
Thank you, Rosenqui, for making that point.
Whether most consumers care or not, Bell ExpressVu DOES manipulate some signals delivered from suppliers to fit their business needs. In some cases, they bully/pressure/request a broadcaster deliver an HD signal in 720 via fibre when the same broadcaster delivers 1080 to a cable company or OTA.
In a digital world, the PQ on your screen at home ought to be identical to what the broadcaster has leaving his studio: this is the promise of a digital world, and why it is superior to analogue which degrades through every link in the chain. The digital PQ is 1s and 0s and, like Captain Picard, is beamed around to be reconstituted exactly as it started out. If a TV provider is downcoverting or at any point moving the single (heaven forbid) through some analogue process, then you are NOT getting what the provider claims to be selling.
Whether most consumers care or not, Bell ExpressVu DOES manipulate some signals delivered from suppliers to fit their business needs. In some cases, they bully/pressure/request a broadcaster deliver an HD signal in 720 via fibre when the same broadcaster delivers 1080 to a cable company or OTA.
In a digital world, the PQ on your screen at home ought to be identical to what the broadcaster has leaving his studio: this is the promise of a digital world, and why it is superior to analogue which degrades through every link in the chain. The digital PQ is 1s and 0s and, like Captain Picard, is beamed around to be reconstituted exactly as it started out. If a TV provider is downcoverting or at any point moving the single (heaven forbid) through some analogue process, then you are NOT getting what the provider claims to be selling.
A
ARR
Guest
I think you may find they use the 72 slot + 82 for EASTERN and the 82 + 91 for WESTERN.
This way the same dishes with 9 degree spacing can be used with just a minor re-point for the Eastern boys.
No way in hell the 72 slot will work for many subs in the lower mainland of B.C.
This isn't much different than the mirroring that Dishnet used on 61.5 + 148
For the transition, they can send MPEG2 tagged as MPEG4 like Dish did in the transition.
By using 3 slots paired for regional coverage, they can transition 1/2 the country.
Looks like the Eastern boys are going to feel the pain first with a repoint + ironing out the inevitable MPEG4 bugs.
We must thank them for volunteering.
This way the same dishes with 9 degree spacing can be used with just a minor re-point for the Eastern boys.
No way in hell the 72 slot will work for many subs in the lower mainland of B.C.
This isn't much different than the mirroring that Dishnet used on 61.5 + 148
For the transition, they can send MPEG2 tagged as MPEG4 like Dish did in the transition.
By using 3 slots paired for regional coverage, they can transition 1/2 the country.
Looks like the Eastern boys are going to feel the pain first with a repoint + ironing out the inevitable MPEG4 bugs.
We must thank them for volunteering.
S
SensualPoet
Guest
Walter: a few clarifications.
Rogers is not in Windsor.
Rogers does not have "entirely different systems serving Windsor, London, Kitchener-Waterloo, Toronto, etc." Rogers, as a regional cableco, has CRTC rules ensuring it offers preference to local OTA broadcasters. That's why the CRTC, literally, tells each cableco what appears on channels 4, 5, 6, 7, etc in ever single neighbourhood served, and why these change by geography. But ALL the other channels -- 98% of them -- can be common across the cable network and this is exactly what Rogers has attempted to build out on its digital platform.
ExpressVu (and Star Choice), as a national provider, has CRTC rules ensuring it offers equal coverage to a national audience. In this regard, ExpressVu is "obligated" to offer CBC HD East and West where technology permits. I believe this means it must offer equal pay services in east and west where available (3 TMN HD = 3 MC HD).
There is a consistent rationale behind each regional/national construct and BOTH cable and satellite have been aware of/can build to these rules. If cable has executed more expertly than satellite, no one can blame cable.
Rogers is not in Windsor.
Rogers does not have "entirely different systems serving Windsor, London, Kitchener-Waterloo, Toronto, etc." Rogers, as a regional cableco, has CRTC rules ensuring it offers preference to local OTA broadcasters. That's why the CRTC, literally, tells each cableco what appears on channels 4, 5, 6, 7, etc in ever single neighbourhood served, and why these change by geography. But ALL the other channels -- 98% of them -- can be common across the cable network and this is exactly what Rogers has attempted to build out on its digital platform.
ExpressVu (and Star Choice), as a national provider, has CRTC rules ensuring it offers equal coverage to a national audience. In this regard, ExpressVu is "obligated" to offer CBC HD East and West where technology permits. I believe this means it must offer equal pay services in east and west where available (3 TMN HD = 3 MC HD).
There is a consistent rationale behind each regional/national construct and BOTH cable and satellite have been aware of/can build to these rules. If cable has executed more expertly than satellite, no one can blame cable.
I
I_Want_My_HDTV
Guest
Maybe the truth is so bad that EV didn't want to to release it. Thanks to Hugh for bluffing EV and forcing EV's their hand. The truth is out and it is bad for EV. There are no receiver upgrades and very little HD will be added until 2009. As soon as Rogers comes out with an improved HD PVR, I am switching. Bye Bye EV. You screwed me for the last time. Good luck retaining those AIO customers once the contract is up. (It won't happen.) My equipment will be on eBay. (The hackers will love that but you screwed once too often with your bad, overpriced hardware.) Most of all, you will lose my $80+/mo with little investment (since I paid all the hardware costs up front.) 
S
SensualPoet
Guest
MPEG-4 is, indeed, a great way to extend bandwidth over satellite (or cable, for that matter). Roughly speaking, it can double the effective bandwidth.
So: 40 MPEG-2 HD channels can become 80 MPEG-4 HD channels. 300 MPEG-2 SD channels can become 600 SD channels or, perhaps, 200 MPEG-4 SD channels and 100 MORE MPEG-4 HD channels.
But here's the problem: not only ALL of your HD customers, but also ALL of your SD customers, have to have their receivers replaced. With Bell, and 1.8 million customers and, for the sake of argument, 3.0 million receivers at $200 average each ... that's a pile of money someone has to invest just to stay standing. To say nothing of making 3 million receivers totally obsolete if the switch is 100% to MPEG-4. Bell does NOT have the capacity to offer the same signal in BOTH MPEG-4 and MPEG-2.
Meanwhile, this is a non-trivial transition at the head-ends, the affiliates and, not least, at each customer home. Or just launch a satellite into 72? What about having to re-point dishes across the country to get 91-82-72? Whatever bandwidth upgrade strategy Bell pursues, there are significant challenges.
So: 40 MPEG-2 HD channels can become 80 MPEG-4 HD channels. 300 MPEG-2 SD channels can become 600 SD channels or, perhaps, 200 MPEG-4 SD channels and 100 MORE MPEG-4 HD channels.
But here's the problem: not only ALL of your HD customers, but also ALL of your SD customers, have to have their receivers replaced. With Bell, and 1.8 million customers and, for the sake of argument, 3.0 million receivers at $200 average each ... that's a pile of money someone has to invest just to stay standing. To say nothing of making 3 million receivers totally obsolete if the switch is 100% to MPEG-4. Bell does NOT have the capacity to offer the same signal in BOTH MPEG-4 and MPEG-2.
Meanwhile, this is a non-trivial transition at the head-ends, the affiliates and, not least, at each customer home. Or just launch a satellite into 72? What about having to re-point dishes across the country to get 91-82-72? Whatever bandwidth upgrade strategy Bell pursues, there are significant challenges.
N
Nimiq 1
Guest
That makes total sense.
Saves on Hardware, use the same Dish just re-point.
I just hope they bring out a sticker for the "Y" yolks as they all say 82 / 91 that will baffle some of the installers I know if they have to point at 73 / 82.......lol
Nimiq 1
Saves on Hardware, use the same Dish just re-point.
I just hope they bring out a sticker for the "Y" yolks as they all say 82 / 91 that will baffle some of the installers I know if they have to point at 73 / 82.......lol
Nimiq 1
A
ARR
Guest
Unless they hired a bunch of former *c execs!
Readers on the other side have long lamented to lack of communication and progress and badly missed timelines to the point of jumping ship, which I'm sure a percentage of BEV'ers will do.
Having been intimatly involved in this business and in the direct path of product releases, I can assure you that the path to new product introduction is frought with many diversions which the average subscriber has no familiarity with.
Of course it doesn't help that Engineering and Marketing are seldom on the same page.
Too many comminications that fall short on accuracy or expectations are later met with an abundance of skepticism, so while we don't much like it, there is really very little we can do about it.
With these companies, things happen when they bloody well happen.
It's probaly the same for the cable companies, at least the ones I'm familair with.
Readers on the other side have long lamented to lack of communication and progress and badly missed timelines to the point of jumping ship, which I'm sure a percentage of BEV'ers will do.
Having been intimatly involved in this business and in the direct path of product releases, I can assure you that the path to new product introduction is frought with many diversions which the average subscriber has no familiarity with.
Of course it doesn't help that Engineering and Marketing are seldom on the same page.
Too many comminications that fall short on accuracy or expectations are later met with an abundance of skepticism, so while we don't much like it, there is really very little we can do about it.
With these companies, things happen when they bloody well happen.
It's probaly the same for the cable companies, at least the ones I'm familair with.
Rather than swapping hardware to MPEG4, wouldn't it have been possible to design an MPEG4-to-MPEG2 converter for use on the old hardware?
Is there a technical limitation for not pursuing this remedy? It would have saved them a lot of money and headaches.
I am not talking about an internal modification to the receiver, but rather, something that plugs into RF-in, demodulates the incoming signal, converts the MPEG4 signal to MPEG2, then re-modulates the signal and passes it to the receiver. So, at the end of the day, the receiver still gets an MPEG2 signal it knows how to process, and, the provider manages to squeeze more bandwidth out of their transponders by using MPEG4 compression.
Is there a technical limitation for not pursuing this remedy? It would have saved them a lot of money and headaches.
I am not talking about an internal modification to the receiver, but rather, something that plugs into RF-in, demodulates the incoming signal, converts the MPEG4 signal to MPEG2, then re-modulates the signal and passes it to the receiver. So, at the end of the day, the receiver still gets an MPEG2 signal it knows how to process, and, the provider manages to squeeze more bandwidth out of their transponders by using MPEG4 compression.
I
i hate tv
Guest
Im confused
The article that Bell sent out, and Hugh posted, is inaccurate?
Why not yell at whoever sent the article out?
My understanding, is that the article was published here, with nothing changed, so what is inaccurate about it?
These Bell guys are looking more and more like a bunch of knuckleheads
The article that Bell sent out, and Hugh posted, is inaccurate?
Why not yell at whoever sent the article out?
My understanding, is that the article was published here, with nothing changed, so what is inaccurate about it?
These Bell guys are looking more and more like a bunch of knuckleheads
A
ARR
Guest
Big beal, a few snips of some traces and a older tweaked card and voila*.
Secure in the same context as ExpressVu is like Military Intelligence or Jumbo Shrimp...
And that horse has been beaten to death every time it comes up.
I'm no Bell fan, but lets let them recover from their misery of the DHC AD fiasco before we trash them for the umpteenth time over piracy.
*The opening statement in no way advocates piracy as is merly an over simplified generalization designed to make a point.
Secure in the same context as ExpressVu is like Military Intelligence or Jumbo Shrimp...
And that horse has been beaten to death every time it comes up.
I'm no Bell fan, but lets let them recover from their misery of the DHC AD fiasco before we trash them for the umpteenth time over piracy.
*The opening statement in no way advocates piracy as is merly an over simplified generalization designed to make a point.
A
ARR
Guest
I see 91 has all 32 TP's assigned, so no space there unless they drop SD channels and to kill 6-10 SD and it's associated revenue, assuming they could for a couple of HD won't work.
Then a scan of 82 at Lyngsat indicates nothing on TP's 8, 12 & 24.
Hopeful, but according to their commercial burn sheet, nothing there at all, so maybe these are the ones that others customers are using.
Wouldn't they also need to have some spares up there?
Maybe they are already there, but the license only allows 32 Ku TP.
As for *C and their MPEG4 module, I've held one in my hand and since Bev can't decode MPEG4 one today, why would you ask *C?
Using the same argument, why aren't all the Canadian 6000 receivers shipped with the much sought after 8PSK adapters that was an OPTION for DN and only introduced WHEN they started their new 8PSK HD signals when Discovery HD launched?
I agree, there is no corpse just yet, but given all the recent events in their totality, I'm not sure even Dr. House can save this one.
I might miss a few, but lets try and sum it all up:
Major debt load - Not a shareholder favourite
Failing business metrics - not a sign of a going concern
Crippled satellites - possible loss of signals and just more used junk to back it up.
No immediate capacity - can't / isn't HD leader for long(er)
Damaged Cash flow due to PR/ New receiver debacle
Missing already launched HD content - maybe providers aren't comfortable with an insecure system
Potentially going private - what are they hiding from the SEC?
We know virtually all the Nortel execs were crooks and many have had rolls at BCE, so who knows.
Potential sale - nobody moves - nobody gets hurt - other providers advance to lead position.
Weak managemnt that has lost confidence and questions every decision so nothing exciting is happening.
Tied to Echostar who has their own objectives
BCE interests in IPTV - no need then for ExpressVu to fend off the evil cablecos
P.O.'d subs at rate increase with now perception of increased value
Non returning subs after picture/equipment/custormer service quality
...
...
Then a scan of 82 at Lyngsat indicates nothing on TP's 8, 12 & 24.
Hopeful, but according to their commercial burn sheet, nothing there at all, so maybe these are the ones that others customers are using.
Wouldn't they also need to have some spares up there?
Maybe they are already there, but the license only allows 32 Ku TP.
As for *C and their MPEG4 module, I've held one in my hand and since Bev can't decode MPEG4 one today, why would you ask *C?
Using the same argument, why aren't all the Canadian 6000 receivers shipped with the much sought after 8PSK adapters that was an OPTION for DN and only introduced WHEN they started their new 8PSK HD signals when Discovery HD launched?
I agree, there is no corpse just yet, but given all the recent events in their totality, I'm not sure even Dr. House can save this one.
I might miss a few, but lets try and sum it all up:
Major debt load - Not a shareholder favourite
Failing business metrics - not a sign of a going concern
Crippled satellites - possible loss of signals and just more used junk to back it up.
No immediate capacity - can't / isn't HD leader for long(er)
Damaged Cash flow due to PR/ New receiver debacle
Missing already launched HD content - maybe providers aren't comfortable with an insecure system
Potentially going private - what are they hiding from the SEC?
We know virtually all the Nortel execs were crooks and many have had rolls at BCE, so who knows.
Potential sale - nobody moves - nobody gets hurt - other providers advance to lead position.
Weak managemnt that has lost confidence and questions every decision so nothing exciting is happening.
Tied to Echostar who has their own objectives
BCE interests in IPTV - no need then for ExpressVu to fend off the evil cablecos
P.O.'d subs at rate increase with now perception of increased value
Non returning subs after picture/equipment/custormer service quality
...
...
D
dirtyjeffer
Guest
increasings security over the system costs a lot of money...all those costs will be passed on to customers...are all you prepared to pay even more, to combat the people who are stealing it?
i didn't think so...all hell breaks loose in here when the price goes up by $2.
i didn't think so...all hell breaks loose in here when the price goes up by $2.
According to Bell's 2007 Business Review a key priority for Bell ExpressVU was the Transition to MPEG-4 for HD and special programming.
We have discussed this in the New HD receiver discussion but not in the context of all 1.8 million subscribers.
What I am curious about is what does the "Transition to MPEG-4 for HD and special programming" really mean and what impact will it have on customers.
Please no arguing over if its coming or ranting about receiver swaps. Lets try and keep it to what needs to be done in the transition.
We have discussed this in the New HD receiver discussion but not in the context of all 1.8 million subscribers.
What I am curious about is what does the "Transition to MPEG-4 for HD and special programming" really mean and what impact will it have on customers.
Please no arguing over if its coming or ranting about receiver swaps. Lets try and keep it to what needs to be done in the transition.
A
ARR
Guest
I always thought that was Replay TV that did that.
I have it on my REPLAY, didn't notice it on my Tivo, but that was a very early model.
Cool.
I like the idea of sending it around and using VLC to watch it wherever.
Some of the DVB programs permit you to stream the output.
I wonder what it will take to do the same sort of stuff once we are on MPEG4?
I have it on my REPLAY, didn't notice it on my Tivo, but that was a very early model.
Cool.
I like the idea of sending it around and using VLC to watch it wherever.
Some of the DVB programs permit you to stream the output.
I wonder what it will take to do the same sort of stuff once we are on MPEG4?
S
SensualPoet
Guest
Well put. For the duration of your contract -- expiring Mar 2009 -- you will probably get everything you currently subscribe to (not that your contract guarantees that, but that's a different issue).
And, yes, today, you get more HD than Star Choice delivers. However, the value of that difference diminishes if you don't need the extra French language HD, or the PPV in Eng and Fre, or the occasional HD sports in out-of-market packages like NCAA Basketball. As a Star Choice subscriber you'll already get Showcase and National Geographic in HD with programming you might find more useful than Rush or Equator. But that comes down to personal taste.
The point might be that yes, you are going to get what you contracted for, and are stuck with it till Mar 2009. Customers with HD from cable or Star Choice may find they have continuing expansion in value for their HD dollar in the meantime, due to potential technical and corporate impediments at Bell ExpressVu during this period.
And, yes, today, you get more HD than Star Choice delivers. However, the value of that difference diminishes if you don't need the extra French language HD, or the PPV in Eng and Fre, or the occasional HD sports in out-of-market packages like NCAA Basketball. As a Star Choice subscriber you'll already get Showcase and National Geographic in HD with programming you might find more useful than Rush or Equator. But that comes down to personal taste.
The point might be that yes, you are going to get what you contracted for, and are stuck with it till Mar 2009. Customers with HD from cable or Star Choice may find they have continuing expansion in value for their HD dollar in the meantime, due to potential technical and corporate impediments at Bell ExpressVu during this period.
J
jft436
Guest
Dish network has switched to MPEG 4 and I believe Direct has also switched.
Direct has been actively invovled in announcing a 100 HDTV stations. Obviously that would take a tremendous ammount of bandwidth on MPEG2 as opposed to MPEG 4.
Bell is going to switch for business and technical reasons and the customers will have to follow.
It is also my understanding that the sw 44 switch is gone and replaced with a Dish Pro switch, so an installer will have to attend your residence to make the necessary changes.
Lets hope that they take a page from Dish TV who offered their customers an upgrade for $99.00 amd some other incentives.
They certainly did not offer me any incentives to change from a 6000 to a 9200. Al the incentives were geared toward the new customers.
Dish has just recently opened a new assembly plant in Spartansburg S.C.where they assemble the dish receivers.I am am certain they will be the source for new receivers.
One thing that is difficult to understand why all the secrecy and denials and to the point where they have cancelled their add on this forum.
Would it not be in their best interest to tell the consumer what the future holds in regards to their products so that an informed decision can be made.
Direct has been actively invovled in announcing a 100 HDTV stations. Obviously that would take a tremendous ammount of bandwidth on MPEG2 as opposed to MPEG 4.
Bell is going to switch for business and technical reasons and the customers will have to follow.
It is also my understanding that the sw 44 switch is gone and replaced with a Dish Pro switch, so an installer will have to attend your residence to make the necessary changes.
Lets hope that they take a page from Dish TV who offered their customers an upgrade for $99.00 amd some other incentives.
They certainly did not offer me any incentives to change from a 6000 to a 9200. Al the incentives were geared toward the new customers.
Dish has just recently opened a new assembly plant in Spartansburg S.C.where they assemble the dish receivers.I am am certain they will be the source for new receivers.
One thing that is difficult to understand why all the secrecy and denials and to the point where they have cancelled their add on this forum.
Would it not be in their best interest to tell the consumer what the future holds in regards to their products so that an informed decision can be made.
A
ARR
Guest
Probably not a technical limitation, but a cost one.
By the time you add a tuner, demodulator and L-band modulator and manage to keep it all secure, you've basically designed both a receiver and uplink transmitter. I think it would be VERY kludgey!
Some internal mod as part of a refurb process that handles it all at the decoded MPEG level would make more sense, but you'd have to keep the signals secure internally.
By the time you add a tuner, demodulator and L-band modulator and manage to keep it all secure, you've basically designed both a receiver and uplink transmitter. I think it would be VERY kludgey!
Some internal mod as part of a refurb process that handles it all at the decoded MPEG level would make more sense, but you'd have to keep the signals secure internally.
S
scrooloose
Guest
They only need to focus on HD, which affects the fewest number of customers, but consumes almost an entire satellite. Swapping the receivers of HD customers must be cheaper and easier than a new satellite at a new orbital slot. They'll need both eventually but a receiver swap just seems like the easiest thing to do.
-Mike
-Mike
P
profets
Guest
murderotica, can you explain a bit into how theyre able to air up to 65 full time HD channels? maybe that is done by taking down groups of current SD channels? as of now it seems that they are maxed out on space. obviously in the summer people are mostly outdoors. but its been since the winter that other providers have added some new channels that bell still has not.