Minority opinions you have about animation
- Thread starter Allie L
- Start date
The Question.
I'd barely heard of him before JLU. What little I knew I thought he was stupid, boring and one of those "fluff" type chars that DC had in their comic world.
Then came Timmverse and that whole darn group of DC properties like BTAS, STAS, BB, JLU, etc. his group re-created. With some brilliant writing and animation, he took what was to me an un-interesting character like The Question and made me love this guy. Ah, the power of good writing and animation. So...I go to my local comic book shop and start buying his comics and researching him on the net. The Question quickly became BORING to me all over again. So my obsession with him is only in Timmverse's JLU and nowhere else.
To Question fans...I'm sorry, but my hypocrisy only goes so far.:sweat:
I'd barely heard of him before JLU. What little I knew I thought he was stupid, boring and one of those "fluff" type chars that DC had in their comic world.
Then came Timmverse and that whole darn group of DC properties like BTAS, STAS, BB, JLU, etc. his group re-created. With some brilliant writing and animation, he took what was to me an un-interesting character like The Question and made me love this guy. Ah, the power of good writing and animation. So...I go to my local comic book shop and start buying his comics and researching him on the net. The Question quickly became BORING to me all over again. So my obsession with him is only in Timmverse's JLU and nowhere else.
To Question fans...I'm sorry, but my hypocrisy only goes so far.:sweat:
TheUnrealMe
New member
That's not true, there's a few that I can name of the top of my head, Dee Dee, Bubbles, Madison (...they're all blonds... hmm), but that's a bit of a cliche' too IMO, but they're kind of outweighed by the stereotyped characters I mentioned before.
There are also some interesting characters from anime, like ED from Cowboy Bebop, Yomiko Readman (from a previous post). Actually there's alot I can think of, I just can't remember their names.
There are also some interesting characters from anime, like ED from Cowboy Bebop, Yomiko Readman (from a previous post). Actually there's alot I can think of, I just can't remember their names.
soldieroftheking7
New member
Ratatouille does carry a lot of Brad Bird's signature themes about talent and the outsider. Brad Bird really does seem to be Pixar's auteur. John Lassetter's films do have a bit of that committee feel to them but they also tend to bear a bit of a distinct style (mainly the sense of nostalgia in them).
I agree with American Dad being awful and Family Guy not having done anything funny for a while (and yes, those shows are madly popular enough to make this an unpopular opinion, even if it's fairly popular here).
Disney is extremely overrated. Lilo and Stitch is the only fully enjoyable film their animation studio has produced (not counting Touchstone releases). They've made other good movies (I highly respect much of Fantasia and The Lion King, among others), but much of their output, both now and in Walt's day, is bland and formulaic.
I agree with American Dad being awful and Family Guy not having done anything funny for a while (and yes, those shows are madly popular enough to make this an unpopular opinion, even if it's fairly popular here).
Disney is extremely overrated. Lilo and Stitch is the only fully enjoyable film their animation studio has produced (not counting Touchstone releases). They've made other good movies (I highly respect much of Fantasia and The Lion King, among others), but much of their output, both now and in Walt's day, is bland and formulaic.
sly phy .. ouija bonfire
New member
Agreed with everything but the Family Guy statement. I think the fact that FG can now do whatever they want is it's biggest 'downfall' - since standards are a lot looser then they were back in 2000, the writers have to work less around S&P. It's more or less a dart board of gags instead of a spitballed clever ham-it-up they have in the writer's room. What I mean by this is, they keep throwing the same type of thing at S&P until they can get the raunchiest thing in the show, and even then AS will air it. Previous seasons really had them work for wordplay and dialog -- they couldn't just rattle off genitalia, they had to hint to it through another sort of joke. While both are funny, I would say that there's a clear difference between what Season One could do and what Season Six is doing now.
However, I think it's neat that one episode can have Peter coping with his Catholic father and the next episode can have him teaming up with a talking spanish cow to shut down a burger empire. The fact that the show can just squash and stretch the confines of what it can and can't do every episode is so creatively appealing to me. That is to say that I also appreciate the down-to-earth complexity of human action and reaction of The King of the Hill, without it I don't think 'Death Picks Cotton' would have worked. The Simpsons is trapped in it's own hell. If they get too wacky, the fans will pretty much do anything they can to tear down the Fox Studio walls to kill the writers, but if they're too serious, most of their stupid fans (90% of them) will all chime in with the 'where's the gags in act two' rant they always whine about. I also think it's ridiculous that each episode HAS to end with an emotional scene, at least that's what NoHomers wants.
I'll agree that Family Guy isn't as cleverly brash with it's jokes as it once was -- however, the newer episodes always really get me to laugh out loud more then once per episode, even if I've seen them millions of times in reruns (and I have, they have FG on at least 6 times a day), which is more then I can really say about the other two (The Simpsons sometimes really gets me or just gets me chuckling, KOTH is more like a light smile through the whole thing). But FG still is 'funny'. There are always arguments of people saying stuff like "I don't get why this is funny. I didn't see any humor in there." You'd have to be an idiot not to see the humor, regardless of tastes. Maybe it's just me - I enjoy long gags, realistic dialog, and vapidly regular yet still surreal situations (Chris discussing movies with Carl was a neat scene for me).
So I think that while FG has it's problems, it's still just as good as it was when it premiered. It's just that they're now able to do what they've wanted to do since it started, and the 'fans' that stuck with it now have a show that they're not entirely fond of (it's obvious Meg was jammed in there for demographic reasons, that's a fairly good explanation why she's in the position she's in). There's been a few bad episodes, don't get me wrong, but what TV show doesn't have a bad episode now and then?
See, that's a minority opinion.
Also, I have never ONCE heard an American Dad discussion ever in real life. 'Aw man, did you watch that hilarious new American Dad?' is pretty much just as common as 'Woah, JAG was amazing last night' discussions. I didn't really think it was necessary to discuss it with the other shows, it either works, or it doesn't, but compared to the others it's just not that much different.
Other 'minority' opinions:
- Waking Life is a boring movie that is so into it's own message that it actually has it's main character watching his own movie and really enjoying it in one scene-- even though that's essentially the opposite reaction I got from it (speaking of that, when that scene came up, I was angry afterwards).
- The Simpsons has always been good to me. I actually enjoy newer episodes more because older episodes aren't really as sharp as NoHomers would lead you to believe. Some are actually pretty dull.
- Klasky Csupo cartoons were and have always been a fairly overhyped mess. They'll last for 2 good seasons and slowly run out of steam with their gimmick (see: Dill, Kimi, the whole Wild Thornberries thing, Rocket Power). The only exception to this belief is As Told By Ginger, which was pretty great through as long as it lasted.
- Death Note makes a better read then it does a TV show.
- All of Adult Swim is good to me. I see where fans may think it's going downhill, but they're not actually fans. I grew up with this block - watched it since the first day, and it's still just as good to me. The only show I ever thought about changing the channel on is Minoriteam, but I stuck with it.
- Drawn Together is funny - you just have to understand that not every TV show can cater to your every humor fancy.
- John K doesn't deserve to really get another TV show. He understands how the system works but constantly tries to undermine it with breaking time constraints and underbudgeting on what he knows will cost more. I do respect what he says though - the man knows his cartoons even if he's not open minded in the least bit.
- Tom and Jerry is boring to me. Scooby Doo is obnoxious, and Looney Toons, while they're fun in bits, wear thin on me faster then any other show on television. Don't get me wrong - I still sometimes watch them to learn animation techniques and scene setups.
- Most Dreamworks animated movies are boring. Shrek was fine, but it's sequels were worse and worse (Shrek 3 was so bland and lacking of inspiration).
- Flash animation on TV makes me cringe (I still can't get past even Foster's, but I really, really want to).
However, I think it's neat that one episode can have Peter coping with his Catholic father and the next episode can have him teaming up with a talking spanish cow to shut down a burger empire. The fact that the show can just squash and stretch the confines of what it can and can't do every episode is so creatively appealing to me. That is to say that I also appreciate the down-to-earth complexity of human action and reaction of The King of the Hill, without it I don't think 'Death Picks Cotton' would have worked. The Simpsons is trapped in it's own hell. If they get too wacky, the fans will pretty much do anything they can to tear down the Fox Studio walls to kill the writers, but if they're too serious, most of their stupid fans (90% of them) will all chime in with the 'where's the gags in act two' rant they always whine about. I also think it's ridiculous that each episode HAS to end with an emotional scene, at least that's what NoHomers wants.
I'll agree that Family Guy isn't as cleverly brash with it's jokes as it once was -- however, the newer episodes always really get me to laugh out loud more then once per episode, even if I've seen them millions of times in reruns (and I have, they have FG on at least 6 times a day), which is more then I can really say about the other two (The Simpsons sometimes really gets me or just gets me chuckling, KOTH is more like a light smile through the whole thing). But FG still is 'funny'. There are always arguments of people saying stuff like "I don't get why this is funny. I didn't see any humor in there." You'd have to be an idiot not to see the humor, regardless of tastes. Maybe it's just me - I enjoy long gags, realistic dialog, and vapidly regular yet still surreal situations (Chris discussing movies with Carl was a neat scene for me).
So I think that while FG has it's problems, it's still just as good as it was when it premiered. It's just that they're now able to do what they've wanted to do since it started, and the 'fans' that stuck with it now have a show that they're not entirely fond of (it's obvious Meg was jammed in there for demographic reasons, that's a fairly good explanation why she's in the position she's in). There's been a few bad episodes, don't get me wrong, but what TV show doesn't have a bad episode now and then?
See, that's a minority opinion.
Also, I have never ONCE heard an American Dad discussion ever in real life. 'Aw man, did you watch that hilarious new American Dad?' is pretty much just as common as 'Woah, JAG was amazing last night' discussions. I didn't really think it was necessary to discuss it with the other shows, it either works, or it doesn't, but compared to the others it's just not that much different.
Other 'minority' opinions:
- Waking Life is a boring movie that is so into it's own message that it actually has it's main character watching his own movie and really enjoying it in one scene-- even though that's essentially the opposite reaction I got from it (speaking of that, when that scene came up, I was angry afterwards).
- The Simpsons has always been good to me. I actually enjoy newer episodes more because older episodes aren't really as sharp as NoHomers would lead you to believe. Some are actually pretty dull.
- Klasky Csupo cartoons were and have always been a fairly overhyped mess. They'll last for 2 good seasons and slowly run out of steam with their gimmick (see: Dill, Kimi, the whole Wild Thornberries thing, Rocket Power). The only exception to this belief is As Told By Ginger, which was pretty great through as long as it lasted.
- Death Note makes a better read then it does a TV show.
- All of Adult Swim is good to me. I see where fans may think it's going downhill, but they're not actually fans. I grew up with this block - watched it since the first day, and it's still just as good to me. The only show I ever thought about changing the channel on is Minoriteam, but I stuck with it.
- Drawn Together is funny - you just have to understand that not every TV show can cater to your every humor fancy.
- John K doesn't deserve to really get another TV show. He understands how the system works but constantly tries to undermine it with breaking time constraints and underbudgeting on what he knows will cost more. I do respect what he says though - the man knows his cartoons even if he's not open minded in the least bit.
- Tom and Jerry is boring to me. Scooby Doo is obnoxious, and Looney Toons, while they're fun in bits, wear thin on me faster then any other show on television. Don't get me wrong - I still sometimes watch them to learn animation techniques and scene setups.
- Most Dreamworks animated movies are boring. Shrek was fine, but it's sequels were worse and worse (Shrek 3 was so bland and lacking of inspiration).
- Flash animation on TV makes me cringe (I still can't get past even Foster's, but I really, really want to).
Josh Timmons
New member
Then why are we complaining about the lack of wacky females?
Tracey Rocks!
New member
Okay, with all honesty...
I think the Super Mario Bros Super Show is the worst of the Mario cartoons. Lou Albano & Danny Wells were great as the Mario Bros but the plots were cliched, the whole land that has a certain is stupid and Bowser/Koopa's changing alter-ego thing got slow fast.
People complain that the Naruto characters aren't real ninjas just because they don't dress like ninjas and do unbelieveable stunts. But I think the Straw Hats from One Piece shoudn't be called pirates. They barely pillage, only few times go hunting for buried treasure, and when they do they either lose it or gave it to a poor village. And what kind of pirate crew has an archaeologist in the ranks? Heck, if they didn't fight all sorts of bad people and assorted Marines/Navy officers, they wouldn't even have wanted posters.
Family Guy should've stayed dead.
Drawn Together was actually funny. Lil' Bush & Freakshow are the sucky Comedy Central shows.
Even though everything else Marathon made is crap, Totally Spies is a good show that shouldn't be taken so seriously.
"Believe It" is a good catchphrase and should've been the "Dattebayo" of the Naruto dub.
Powerpuff Girls Z sucked and is a complete utter insult to the original cartoon.
I hated Justice League & Justice League Unlimited because they messed several things up. The Justice Lords were lame knock-offs of the Crime Syndicate, the Joker's Royal Flush Gang screws up the continuity Batman: Beyond sets up. And don't get me started on the Green Lantern/Hawkgirl situation.
X-Men: Evolution is overated, same reasons why I hated JL/JLU.
Canadian animation is overrated.
The 2002 remake of He-Man started off good but the second season sucked thanks to the Snake Men and useless character changes.(Zodac black? Fisto Teela's birth father? WTF)
Transfomers Animated & Beast Wars rank higher than Transfomers G1. And if the G1 fans had it their way, the Transformers would've never been revived until 2002.
Transformers Armada, Energon, & Cybertron all sucked, because than can easily be described as a glorified intergalactic scavenger hunt.
Lisa Simpson should've never been a vegetarian. That's when she started to slip.
I think the Super Mario Bros Super Show is the worst of the Mario cartoons. Lou Albano & Danny Wells were great as the Mario Bros but the plots were cliched, the whole land that has a certain is stupid and Bowser/Koopa's changing alter-ego thing got slow fast.
People complain that the Naruto characters aren't real ninjas just because they don't dress like ninjas and do unbelieveable stunts. But I think the Straw Hats from One Piece shoudn't be called pirates. They barely pillage, only few times go hunting for buried treasure, and when they do they either lose it or gave it to a poor village. And what kind of pirate crew has an archaeologist in the ranks? Heck, if they didn't fight all sorts of bad people and assorted Marines/Navy officers, they wouldn't even have wanted posters.
Family Guy should've stayed dead.
Drawn Together was actually funny. Lil' Bush & Freakshow are the sucky Comedy Central shows.
Even though everything else Marathon made is crap, Totally Spies is a good show that shouldn't be taken so seriously.
"Believe It" is a good catchphrase and should've been the "Dattebayo" of the Naruto dub.
Powerpuff Girls Z sucked and is a complete utter insult to the original cartoon.
I hated Justice League & Justice League Unlimited because they messed several things up. The Justice Lords were lame knock-offs of the Crime Syndicate, the Joker's Royal Flush Gang screws up the continuity Batman: Beyond sets up. And don't get me started on the Green Lantern/Hawkgirl situation.
X-Men: Evolution is overated, same reasons why I hated JL/JLU.
Canadian animation is overrated.
The 2002 remake of He-Man started off good but the second season sucked thanks to the Snake Men and useless character changes.(Zodac black? Fisto Teela's birth father? WTF)
Transfomers Animated & Beast Wars rank higher than Transfomers G1. And if the G1 fans had it their way, the Transformers would've never been revived until 2002.
Transformers Armada, Energon, & Cybertron all sucked, because than can easily be described as a glorified intergalactic scavenger hunt.
Lisa Simpson should've never been a vegetarian. That's when she started to slip.
Not only is Evangelion NOT overrated, it's actually underrated. Too many people think it's just all about teen angst, or that it was a mediocre giant-robot show. And too many people who praise it preface their comments by saying something like "I don't think it's the greatest anime ever, but...", like they're afraid of being labeled a fanboy.
It IS the best anime ever. And not only that, it's the greatest work of animation period. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's the greatest narrative work ever expressed in a visual medium. It may actually be the most important work of art to come out of the past century. Or the past millennium. But too many people nowadays are afraid to see it for it's true value. It's cursed for it's popularity, because obviously something that widely adored can't actually be that good, right? So being the ultra-cynical society we are, we have to find reasons why something that so many people love isn't really as good as people think it is.
So naturally you'll all respond to this and say, "Well that's not why I dislike it, I just find Shinji annoying, and Asuka *****y, and Anno pretentious, ...blah blah blah", and so on. Stop it. Seriously, the sooner you quit lying to yourself the better. Evangelion changed my life and it can change yours too. It's too important to just dismiss.
It IS the best anime ever. And not only that, it's the greatest work of animation period. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's the greatest narrative work ever expressed in a visual medium. It may actually be the most important work of art to come out of the past century. Or the past millennium. But too many people nowadays are afraid to see it for it's true value. It's cursed for it's popularity, because obviously something that widely adored can't actually be that good, right? So being the ultra-cynical society we are, we have to find reasons why something that so many people love isn't really as good as people think it is.
So naturally you'll all respond to this and say, "Well that's not why I dislike it, I just find Shinji annoying, and Asuka *****y, and Anno pretentious, ...blah blah blah", and so on. Stop it. Seriously, the sooner you quit lying to yourself the better. Evangelion changed my life and it can change yours too. It's too important to just dismiss.
- Family Guy is circling the drain.
- The Simpsons is vastly overrated.
- There needs to be more dynamic female characters in cartoons.
- Given the right opportunity, fictional mothers can be just as interesting, funny and wacky as fathers.
- Wolverine, Spider-Man and Batman are the most overrated superheroes ever.
I never knew anyone else felt that way, cool!
I agree 100%! I'm shocked to see so many fansites.
I think that Pixar is starting to blossom more as a company but we all have our opinions.
It's a joke on ninjas if you ask me.
Code Lyoko is just like Pokemon, the first season was great but everything else after it is crap.
You.. you don't really mean that, do you? :crying:
Do you mean any females or mothers?
Do you mean as superheroes or their cartoons? And I know you're joking about Spider-Man .aka. The Greatest Superhero ever.
I agree 100%! I'm shocked to see so many fansites.
I think that Pixar is starting to blossom more as a company but we all have our opinions.
It's a joke on ninjas if you ask me.
Code Lyoko is just like Pokemon, the first season was great but everything else after it is crap.
You.. you don't really mean that, do you? :crying:
Do you mean any females or mothers?
Do you mean as superheroes or their cartoons? And I know you're joking about Spider-Man .aka. The Greatest Superhero ever.
Dan Sulyman
New member
...Because they're kind of outweighed by the stereotyped characters I mentioned before.
...sorry, I edit my posts alot.
...sorry, I edit my posts alot.
Women/girls in general just aren't as funny as guys. Even if they were written so well that it was hysterical every time they hit the screen, they still wouldn't be as endearing or as funny as a guy would (Even Juno, while not animated sans the opening, wasn't really a laugh-out-loud character).
Honestly this is just my opinion, but still... I don't think there has ever been a woman character even written by women themselves that is as hilarious as the guys in the same series.
Honestly this is just my opinion, but still... I don't think there has ever been a woman character even written by women themselves that is as hilarious as the guys in the same series.
mrdreadlocks28
New member
Shaman King, yes. But in my opinion, I'd have to disagree about Tokyo Mew Mew
Cartoon Network is bearable. I'm not at home a lot (currently), so what I watch of it, I don't get bored from.
Nickelodeon is okay right now, in my opinion.
I have no problems with Toon Disney, even though I'm pissed at them for a reason or two.
I never even heard of The Question until JL: Unlimited, but he is awesome IMO.
I think I started liking him when he did that funny whistle while breaking into that building, and the whole faceless thing was cool.
Cartoon Network is bearable. I'm not at home a lot (currently), so what I watch of it, I don't get bored from.
Nickelodeon is okay right now, in my opinion.
I have no problems with Toon Disney, even though I'm pissed at them for a reason or two.
I never even heard of The Question until JL: Unlimited, but he is awesome IMO.
I think I started liking him when he did that funny whistle while breaking into that building, and the whole faceless thing was cool.
No true, Bringing up Read or Die again, the show revolves around an almost all female cast and there have been many instances where I laughed my ass off (although, I'm gonna bring up an old hat and say that the Japanese dub was funnier). And it wasn't typical south Park/Family Guy sitcomedy either, the characters personalities and how they interacted with each other is what made me laugh.
It's just ashame I can't think of anymore examples, though.
Then again, I kind of agree with you. I'm not gonna generalize, cause I know plenty of crazy funny women in real life, but I think that females kind of restrain themselves when it comes to having "funny" or "eccentric" traits. I think my theory can also be said for voice actresses as well again, not generalizing here, but aside from a few notable examples (Tress MacNeille, Kath Soucie, Grey DeLisle, ect) alot of female voice artist feel really restrained to me, especially in anime.
It's just ashame I can't think of anymore examples, though.
Then again, I kind of agree with you. I'm not gonna generalize, cause I know plenty of crazy funny women in real life, but I think that females kind of restrain themselves when it comes to having "funny" or "eccentric" traits. I think my theory can also be said for voice actresses as well again, not generalizing here, but aside from a few notable examples (Tress MacNeille, Kath Soucie, Grey DeLisle, ect) alot of female voice artist feel really restrained to me, especially in anime.
WOAH. While this may be your opinion, don't you think you're overshooting this a bit? EVA was great - but it's not the best visual expression ever. Chris Ware gets more emotion through his graphic novels then what EVA can get through it's ani-motion (with that example I'm comparing the best with the best here). I do appreciate it a lot - I remember the first time I watched it too. And since this is a minority opinion thread, that's the beauty of that statement.
It's just... there's so many other examples of the drawn visual expression that just tops it, like what I mentioned. Besides, EVA's aged fairly badly through the years - there are plenty of other anime that accomplish it's missions better (I suppose while it can and should be debated, FLCL wrapped up in 6 episodes what EVA took forever to say. However, EVA's characters are way more fleshed out).
It's just... there's so many other examples of the drawn visual expression that just tops it, like what I mentioned. Besides, EVA's aged fairly badly through the years - there are plenty of other anime that accomplish it's missions better (I suppose while it can and should be debated, FLCL wrapped up in 6 episodes what EVA took forever to say. However, EVA's characters are way more fleshed out).
gregwhatshisname
New member
Is it that hard to accept that there are people who have no interest in this show. I've given it a chance and I just didn't like it. And there's nothing wrong with that. Anyone should be allowed to voice their opinion without someone saying saying, "Your wrong, and here's why.."
It's obvious that you really, really, really like this show. And that's fine. I really, really, really like Spongebob Squarepants. But I'd be hard pressed to say that either Evangelion or Spongebob is the greatest work of animation period. Again, that's simply personal opinion. And the most important work of art of the past millennium? Perhaps that's pushing it a little bit.
It's obvious that you really, really, really like this show. And that's fine. I really, really, really like Spongebob Squarepants. But I'd be hard pressed to say that either Evangelion or Spongebob is the greatest work of animation period. Again, that's simply personal opinion. And the most important work of art of the past millennium? Perhaps that's pushing it a little bit.
jessiebiscuit
New member
Originally Posted by Silverstar
There needs to be more dynamic female characters in cartoons.
Given the right opportunity, fictional mothers can be just as interesting, funny and wacky as fathers.
Both.
There needs to be more dynamic female characters in cartoons.
Given the right opportunity, fictional mothers can be just as interesting, funny and wacky as fathers.
Both.
adambinamir0
New member
>>-6Teen is more fun then most of the live-action series for "tweens"
From what I've seen (vs. what's on Nickelodeon/Disney Channel), would have to agree...
-B.
"What I've seen" since I only have a few DVDs of it/I'm in the US where the show lasted all of 3 weeks ...
From what I've seen (vs. what's on Nickelodeon/Disney Channel), would have to agree...
-B.
"What I've seen" since I only have a few DVDs of it/I'm in the US where the show lasted all of 3 weeks ...