Michael Moore's Farenheit 911 is official Cannes Selection

You keep saying, without reason, that LaPierre -- a person paid to put out spin -- would have provided a more informative interview. Why do you think that?

And absent medical dementia, Heston's age is irrelevant -- do you think Heston himself would want people to treat him differently because of his age? Moore wanted to expose Heston for what he is: a foolish, ignorant actor worshipped from afar by millions, and willing to use that influence to block gun control of any kind.
 
And distortions are distortions -- yours included. I never conceded that Moore's films include "lies" -- in fact, I specifically denied that in the very post to which you responded. Nor did or would I concede that Moore is "wrong" in any meaningful sense based on the weblinks or allegations posted by you or Emma. Throughout my posts, I've pointed out that it's easy to accuse others of omitting something that would further one's own version of truth. But that's not the same thing as accusing someone of lying, which is what Moore has been accused of doing. The comparison with Bush and Blair is to point up that very difference: affirmative lies (Bush/Blair) versus arguably -- but only arguably -- deceptive omissions (Moore).
 
No, I'm saying Michael Moore will make things up to suit his own agenda. And Michael Moore probably could worm his way out of these things - he's a master at that.

The point is, he will deliberately try to deceive his viewers, but because they tend to be so far up his backside, and hate Bush so much, they don't seem to care much about that. He understanRAB this, and has made a good amount of money from it.

I've got no problem with him making movies, and he's a funny guy at times, but the way people will just simply believe him, and not question anything he says is as scary as people who don't question their own governments as far as I'm concerned.
 
Whatever you think of Michael Moore, he should be given the right to have his say - which we're not seeing through the film distributors refusing to release it (bottling it, to use a phrase). Land of the free my arse.
 
Well. that's always something....



I have gone thorugh the links you've presented... not very impressive though.
What most of those sites seems to have in common is that they avoid adresseing the most important issues in Michael Moores messages. They avoid the real issues by attacking the messenger..... feeble, stupid, and offensive



Cute. Who's points of view do I subscribe to, may I ask?



Take a long look in the mirror mate.



Juggling with numbers can be funny. Sometimes it's nice to see what the signed papers say, and sometimes it makes sense to see where the moneyflow really goes, and what it benefits. The connections to the Taliban is something not even the accused bother to deny. Says nothing about Michael Moore that you are concerned about nit-picking.



Hahahahah, where did you get this information from, eh?
 
That's a very strong argument. Backed up by bugger all.



So they should just ignore it when they see errors and what they perceive to be lies then? Great.

He makes people think, I'll give him that much. But to do so by deliberately deceiving them, isn't likely to inspire any kind of clear thinking. That's not healthy. Nor is beginning with the ideology and accepting any facts and arguments that endorse it, true or not.

You think I'm wrong, I think you're wrong, and this could go on and on... It's clearly a waste of time for me to carry on even trying. Hopefully others reading will - at the very least - approach his new film with skepticism, and if they can find the time, verify Moore's facts and investigate alternate viewpoints. Doing so will give you a far greater understanding of these "real issues". And that is why being critical of one persons take is not "feeble", "stupid" or "offensive", but actually necessary, and helpful to those issues.
 
Sorry??? :confused: :confused: What are you talking about??? I watched [and enjoyed] Bowling Columbine, and have watched Michael Moore since the days when he used to appear in a regular slot on the BBC. The facts given in Bowling Columbine, stand. The facts given by Michael during his time with the BBC, stand. I'm sick of people trying to convince me that someone who has the balls to stand up and speak out, is trying to deceive or fool me.
 
When the material is sp obviously colored by personal aversion then what could have been contructive critisism just falls through.
When the motivation seem to be to bring Michael Moore down, and obviosly not to "get it right", then anyone should be suspicious.

There are also links to sites called www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com, then the subject gets to childish and silly, that it's hard to take anything there seriously.

But what is easy to understand is that most og those "critics" are personally offended that Michael has the nerve to say what most people are thinking, many have proven, some have never thought of, and some need to be told.

It hurts them in their national pride. They see red when USAs name (or EnglanRAB) get slandered, and they get offended when they are told that the administation they turn to for safety keeps f***ing them over. Investigations have also shown that presented with official facts, still a large amount of people refuses to believe the proof. Instead of investigating the facts about their government, they rather investigate Michael Moore in an attempt to discredit the messenger, and their hate for the dude is not very well hidden.

This is the behavior of weak and diluted people, and they same people would p*** on themselves before they dared to do anything like what Michael Moore have done.



Of course not. To get the facts right is important both for Michael Moore and the rest of us. But somtimes facts are disputed, and sometimes distorted, and other times they are right out lies. It is just as common that people lie about other people lying. Sometimes people claim that others lie, because they have been lied to themselves, and presented with false evidence, or fabricated domuments.

This could be a case for the courts if necessary, but so far Michael Moores movie is not a trial, and many "facts" are open for debate, and ivestigation. The making of documentaries is most often about putting different information together, and speculate over what it means, and what the connections are. So if Micheal Moores films can make people think for themselves, and demand the truth, then his role as a filmaker is filled completely.

Whoever makes a documentary about anything, you can rest assured that the "facts" will be disputed by somebody. The motivation behind the dispute is the most important though, and when it's motivated my hurt national and personal egos, then the content of the criticism are usually ment to tire and discredit the subject.



This is an accusation that you will have to support by evidence, not just what some stupid gits have spread on a website to uphold their own illutions, and sleep happily under the flag at night, and a picture of the president watching over them.

So please prove to all of us that Michael Moore have dilberately decieved his audience... and please use some credible sources.



It can do more harm than good, when the motivation for criticism is fear (induced by the ego), and when it justifies presenting lies as truth. It gets very sneaky when truth is mixed with lies in one dangerous cocktail, destined to give anyone a headache, and that goes both for Micheal Moore AND his critics. It's even worse when all kinRAB of media are attacked by professional distorters of facts, that don't even need to justify themselves, because confusion is their exact weapon, and it's easy to use.

The important point is that the messenger is doing an honest attempt to find the truth and to raise awareness of those who are willing to think for themselves. And so far i believe Micheal Moore cares a lot about his country, and it's peoples welfare.

When it comes to what you and I know, unless we do a thorough investigation oureselves, making sure we are not watched, or mislead by others, or by false evidence, it's really much a question about what information we choose to trust, often based on our emotions.

And as I told you before, there are millions in the USA that still trusts the president because they don't trust the facts presented to them about him and his folks, even if the facts are presented by the UN, BBC, and Reuters at the same time. And that is why he could get reelected. Just like you cannot make yourself belive that there are a workforce out there that are paid to distort the facts, and destroys critics, to serve certain goverments, and that this workforce will also be aimed on countries that are concidered friendly...... does this ring a bell? It should.

A better way to meet Michael Moores claim, is to ask for the proof, and demand truthful investigtions by at least 2 different independent committees. appointed by international organisations.
 
They're really not. Some of these sites do not dedicate themselves to being critical of Michael Moore, but just critical of bullshit in general. With as many pieces ripping to shreRAB the errors and arguments of people on the right.




Yep, you're right, you can read all of them. :rolleyes:




Again, these sites are forever investigating the issues, the politicians and the commentators.



You really are quite mad.




Clearly it's not all that important for Michael Moore



Especially when coming from the mouth of Michael Moore, yes...




You're starting to ramble on like Rumsfield now.



I completely disagree. An honest and thought-provoking documentary about violence in America would be extremely valuable. Unfortunately Michael Moore didn't even try to make one.





To this level? Doubtful.




Again, it usually isn't. And perhaps you should question Moore's motivation a little more.




Clearly these people are not stupid gits. Some of them are very highly regarded writers. As for sleeping under the flag with a picture of the president watching over them... Come on, get real.




Oh for **** sake, you really are completely deluded. It's like trying to have a debate with a 3 year old. Or even worse, Jade Goody. I'm not going to give anymore proof when I've given enough already, which you have completely ignored.




That just about sums Michael Moore up perfectly.




He's not doing an honest or even thoughtful job of it though. He's sometimes raising awareness of things that don't even exist. He's not challenging you, he's preaching to you and your ideological biases. If he's great at anything, it's being the con man.
 
Emma,
I'm tired of reading your completely pointless posts about Moore's "lies." There is no such thing as completely objective journalism. Every film maker comes at a project with an agenda or slant, especially every documentary film maker. Moore is no exception. But before you continue to spout out any more of your idiotic conservative rhetoric, do us the favor of citing ONE lie in any of the films he has made. That does not inclue omisions, that includes LIES. Until you can back up your claim of his being a liar, your input in this matter is completely useless. I'm not a Michael Moore sheep, but I do get pissed off when people like you try to hide their dislike for his politics simply by calling him a liar. You are an embarrassment - and one of the reasons Americans get so ridiculed internationallly.
 
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