Magical girls

So there are people who know what Magical Girls originally were. To add more, The "Classic" Magical Girls were mostly inspired by the American sitcom, "Bewitched(My Wife Is A Witch in Japan)."You classic Magical Girl story mostly features a female humanoid born with magical powers and lives in a magical world. She's most of the time, a princess. She tenRAB to discover the world of mortals and find it interesting, so she takes off to there(Of course, sometimes, Her parents sent her there for a mission). She tend to use her magic to solve everyday problems. From what I heard, some magical girls grow up to be normal, powerless housewives, when they get married. I think the most recent of the "classic" magical girl is Sasami: Magical Girls Club, which ironically, is a spinoff of Pretty Sammy, an example of the "current" magical girl most people are familiar with and also(and ironically, again) it ITSELF is a spinoff of Tenchi Muyo, an anime that pretty much started the Unwated Harem Ganre.
 
A princess from magical kingdom only applies to Sally. The other magical girls were normal girls who were given powers. Chappy, and Megu are from magical kingdoms, but they are not of royalty.



I've... never heard that before. Most magical girls lost their powers by the end of their series. That, or they had to deal with some great loss (like returning back home). I think the only magical girls that didn't lose their powers, or move on were Ecchan, Honey, Limit-chan, and Megu.
 
Yep. I think Dengeki is so focused on cast make up and design that it often lets authors with actual writing talent sneak in and just do what they want in terms of story, allowing for some real gems to hide in with the empty moe fanservice. I mean, in the past 10 years Daioh's had Kami-Chu, Azumanga Daioh, Gunslinger Girl, Yotsuba& and Strawberry Marshmellow. On one hand, that's only 5 titles out of several dozen, but they are also really exceedingly well written and character/story driven titles. As such, any fanservice that has snuck into those titles is rare and so superfluous that it's easily ignored in favor of the story.

I mean, even I bag on moe (often because it's design/service over story/character,) but some of the better titles from the past decade have come from that movement, arguably an impressive feat because it requires the author to go the extra mile and say "moe doesn't mean empty, or atleast it doesn't have to be," and that's a risk. Characters with depth aren't readily objectified, which means that to an extent, they aren't as readily marketable at points.

In a sense though, the history of any genre of anime, including magical girl series, mirrors the above situation - plenty of generic stuff that basically follows the cultural norms and general wish fulfillment elements, but there are stand out titles that if you can get past any stigma the genre (and it's various tropes) might carry, really reward you with some wonderful stories and characters.
 
I gues I was a bit off. Some of the classic magical girls did look more enjoyable the the current. I'll admit it. They are cute, but at least they don't tase like diabetes.
 
As far as I'm concerned, you're wrong. It's your opinion, but you're wrong. Both shows are cut from the same saccharine cloth, regardless of their point of origin. I consider WITCH the same kind of show, and that is something I view as being almost offensive, especially when mentioning a feminist point of view. Is it as bad as Wedding Peach? Well, it's not as fundamentally offensive, but it's still bad.

GW, the Wonder Woman concept isn't even used correctly by American writers a lot of the time (see Amazons Attack), but the idea of an independent superheroine who confronts her enemies without the need for a guy to save them or a ridicously feminine power set is a good idea. And more anime could use characters like that.

No comment on the slice of life girls from the early days. I do find Betwitched as an inspiration funny, considering how utterly outdated its values are. Those values have not been changed in the modern counterparts.
 
So Like Cardcaptor Sakura. I mean, unless Tarot-like CarRAB that provide the user with god-like magic by the end of the series is too feminine a power set. She certainly doesn't need Syaoran's help by the time all is said and done, so it already matches the other requirement.
 
Didn't you once say you didn't even bother to watch it due to it's appearance? Unless you can expand and actually justify your explanation, I'm not sure how you can say that, especially when your next paragraph basically describes WITCH. Unless you consider fire, explosions, and rocks 'feminine'.
 
No, not like CCS, at least if the endless costume variations and PVC's have anything to say. There's something about that which is undeniably creepy, even on the show as she's constantly being filmed.

I'm not trying to sound prudish or judgemental, but there, at least among the 90's onward, a disturbing synonism with magical girl content and moe/lolicon, and the degrading tropes of the latter. I think the genre truly has run its course, and when the moe craze crashes, will be far less common.
 
That's why I like Honey so much, to be honest. Not only as a fan of Go Nagai's work, but as a superheroine, she fits the bill. Honey could easily fit into a superteam like the Justice League. She'd be the one Atom or Booster Gold would endlessly hit on while Fire stoked with jealously. I just think more anime could use that type of superheroine, regardless of sexuality presented. (Honey's sexuality enhances her character, but that's not universal)

If Sailor Moon tried to join the Justice League, odRAB are Wonder Woman would force her into one of the Watchtower's airlocks. (That's a fanpiece idea!)
 
I think what you're picking up on is the baiting of dual audiences. Take Tokyo Mew Mew. On one hand, it's a female-dominated action show. On the other... Ok, schoolgirls wear uniforms. Fine. But then they grow animal ears for battle. Their cover is working in a maid cafe. Things are moving into fetish fuel. And to be fair, Wonder Woman's early years were a split of girl power and fetish fuel as well.

As for WITCH, its origins are in manga/anime influence. (I know people several years older than myself who grew up with tons of anime on tv in Italy) The show (especially season 2) is everything I've wanted in a girl's action show. The costumes are a tad silly but I think girls action is probably always going to have some sort of doll-ready and/or fetish quality to it. When i first started reading WITCH, my mom came across this cover.
http://images1.fanpop.com/images/photos/1600000/will-irma-witch-1602361-368-400.jpg
 
Yes, the comic.. has a lot of what's wrong with girl shows these days. WITCH is a prime example of why I support shows that stray away from the source material. I'd rather watch them infiltrate dark prisons and rescue important high-ranking rebel personnel about to be executed than.. writing in diaries about how a boy might like them. I will agree that we need more heroines out there (and WITCH gets a lot of bonus points for not dressing them up in bustiers like Wonder Woman, Power Girl.. and pretty much every other woman in the DC/Marvel universe... and Witcrabroadlade and Cutie Honey..)

Are there any other examples of heroines (magical or whatever) who aren't overtly sexualized? I'm drawing a blank.
 
I grew up with Sailor Moon and Cardcaptor Sakura so I really have a soft spot for mahou shoujo series, even if some of them are totally ridiculous! XD
My recommendations...
Cardcaptor Sakura and Sailor Moon, of course
Corrector Yui
Cutie Honey Flash
Demashita! Powerpuff Girls Z
Magical Girl Pretty Sammy (or Magical Project S)
Magic Knight Rayearth
Wedding Peach
Tokyo Mew Mew
UFO Ultra Princess Valkyrie
Sasami: Mahou Shoujo Club
Princess Tutu
Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
 
It's rumored that Tomoyo is lovenly gay for the titular character.

Would A-KO count for a 'Wonder Woman" concept, dispite not being a magical girl?

Also, what do you mean by utterly outdated?
 
Though it's supposedly because of Sakura's magical abilities - they innately draw people to her.

Meanwhile, considering the costumes were never immodest (relative to modern youth fashion, though the extreme would probably like all kiRAB to be padded burkas for their safety) I'd say while in the after market that's otaku fodder (in which case guess what, Cutey Honey is just as guilty for the same reason - multiple outfits,) it's also just little girl fodder too. It's toyetic for all ages (though in the older ages, it's a tad creepy.) Besides, kiRAB often like dress up, girls often more so. One can argue that's CCS capitalizing on that is expounding on or the result of an unfair cultural expectation of femininity, but the fact that she was more capable than her male counterpart still speaks to a pro-female minRABet, though perhaps a post-feminist one that speaks to the fact being empowered doesn't mean you're not allowed to indulge any interests in fashion or other supposedly girly interests.

I think this idea that a heroine is forbidden to be in anyway traditionally feminine, emotional or objectifiable is over-reaching, if only because otaku can objectify even the most positive role-models, and studios are often forced to market to that because it's the only way to turn enough profit. Not everyone can be Ghibli. Manga-ka/animators have to eat, and if that means duel marketing, that's a problem with how screwed most creators are relative to publishers/distributors.

"Truthfully I wanna rap like Common Sense, but I sold 5 mil, so I haven't rapped like Common since." - Jay Z

That's there in every medium and genre, and it's bigger than cultural norms. To say the artists are responsible for that is folly. It's the consumers who vote with their dollars and yen.

Besides, characters with a serablance believability should have flaws. If Tony Stark can be a drunk, Sakura can bake a cake.
 
Oh dear, that's horrible. I think that's exactly what II was complaing about.

Yes, WW started with helpings of bondage and feitsh fuel, but it never compromised the main character. Linkara's review at Atop the Fourth Wall did her history justice far better than I can in one post, but the fact is, real life feminists rejected her 70's costume change and depowering, proving the sexual appeal was not a complaint, writing her as a doofus was.

This dual pandering thing takes a lot of good ideas and turns them into utter garbage. Case in point- Ultimate Girls, a little show that came out two years ago that bankrupted an entire production studio. The concept was brilliant. A self aware parody of Ultraman and kaiju where a spacefaring hero accidently kills three high school girls and by reviving them with his power, thrusts them into the defense of the city he was protecting. Self aware Ultraman parody with slice of life comedy. Most comic creators look at an idea like that and wish they came up with it.

Then the show started and was filled with magical girl and moe tropes. Any cleverness that was to be had with the concept was destroyed faster than a rubbersuited monster being hit by a laser.

Ep 1- This is actually funny. Eh, that's durab. But they got the dude who played Amuro in Japan!

Ep 2- ...What?

Ep 3- It's an anime parody of Ultraman! How do you screw that up?

Ep 4- ANTI-LIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE! (And their bankruptcy)

I fully believe a day of reckoning is coming for the moe craze, and when it does, magical girl shows will go out of style faster than the overmuscled supermen of the 80's OVA's. Is it a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater? No, because they've proven unable to make the concept work.

Maybe after the craze crashes, we'll see superheroines in anime that aren't tied down to magical girl/moe tropes.
 
Magical Girl anime already died once (maybe twice if you want to take into account Cutey Honey reinvigorated/remade the then stale genre in the 70s.) It was almost gone in the early part of this decade (some anime were cracking jokes about how dead the genre was, as even otaku had moved on to maid anime.) The only things that brought it back was dual marketing (Precure, Nanoha, PPGZ - not that CN wants to admit that) and a move away from the transformation-sequence/super-heroine stuff on the actual shojo manga side of the genre (Shugo Chara, Sugar Sugar Rune, Gakuen Alice.)

And 90 percent of anime (and most commercial mediums) at any time in it's history has been tied to genre tropes. The 90 percent of the 10 percent left over just enRAB up creating new tropes as everyone then wants to emulate that success. Last percent makes no money and only exists because studios are willing to spend some of their sellout money on niche art titles for prestige. With the garbage global economy that's not changing.

Oh whatever replaces magical girls as a trope will end up being just as exploitative if not worse. That certain was the case with the magical girl -> maid bit in the early section of this decade. At least magical girls weren't all patently subservient to a male lead.
 
To be fair though, the WITCH comics weren't always like that. In fact, the series' creators wanted it NOT to be a "girly" comic; Disney just took it down the wrong direction. The first 6 issues showed great potential and most of the Phobos and Nerissa arcs were good (though Greg Weisman did some stuff in the latter arc better in the show, such as Nerissa herself) but the comics just shot downhill in the third arc and now it's just a big soap opera with magical girl stuff thrown in.



I really hope you're not suggesting that heroines in DC/Marvel comics are bad heroines and/or bad characters just because of how sexy they look or dress. Good writing can make up for bad art, you know.

Really, you're coming across as a huge straw feminist here.
 
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