Lumbar Fusion? Or not...

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SpineAZ

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I have to add that in my opinion if you are taking Oxy 2-4 times a day that's not bad for chronic pain. For a long time I have been on: MS Contin 30 mg 3x/day, Norco 7.5/325 up t 3x per day, Soma 350 up to 3x/day, Neurontin 350mg 3x/day. I function very well on these as my body adjusted and they make every day possible.
 
Hi, everyone. New meraber, hoping someone who's been where I'm "at" can offer some thoughts. Kind of a long story, but here's as abbreviated a version I can offer while still providing the necessary info...

A little over a year ago (April, 2009) I injured my back, working on my boat by lifting and then twisting while holding a 100 lb hatch off to the side...yeah, stupid...

Anyway, a couple of days later I could barely walk, the pain was so intense. So I go to the Orthopedic practice I'd been to before for some neck issues, and the idiot nurse practitioner takes an X-ray, tells me all is fine and to ice it and go home...

Two weeks later, no better. I call them and they arrange for an MRI at their office. After the scan, the tech tells me that he can't say much- but that I'd better take it REAL easy...great...

Doc informs me that I've totally extruded the disc at L-4, L-5. Not a minor herniation, mind you- the disc was completely extruded off to the left side and was lying against the nerve bundle that runs down my left leg. The doctor I'm seeing- nice, competent sports med guy- but NOT a surgeon, tells me that there's no hard/fast solution here. Statistically, he says, much of the time the disc material will resorb into the body, and since the disc spacing still looked OK, he recommended an epidural injection.

A couple of days later I return for the epidural. I watch him inject the dye, and thread the needle right into the nerve passage and inject. Perfect shot, he says... Three days later, I've gone from barely being able to walk, to nearly pain free. How cool is that!

Three or four months later, I'm back to square one. Effects of the epidural have worn off. Go back for a second shot. Works, but less effectively, for about a month. Then a third- and I swear I was worse off for the next week, and no relief after. He refers me to a well-known surgeon for a consult.

I bring the films to the surgeon's office. He pops the disc into his computer for a look. I see strange look on his face; he asks when it happened and I told him around seven months ago. "Why the hell did you wait so long to come and see me!!?? This is one of the worst disc herniations I've ever seen!"

I explained that I had seen his friend first, and that he had recommended a "wait and see" approach. The surgeon felt that surgery- a lurabar fusion- might be necessary, but needed a new scan to see where things were at currently. The new scan- taken last Noveraber- revealed that much of the disc material had indeed resorbed, but some was still pressing on the nerve root, the disc spacing had narrowed and was now "cockeyed" (forget the medical term) and the spacing on the left side had diminshed so much, and the fatty tissue surrounding the nerve root was nearly gone on that side.

His caveat- I may have waited TOO long for the surgical option. He explained that after eight or nine months of the nerve bundle being compressed that the nerve damage may be permanent. He proposes an L-4-5 fusion, with a titanium roRAB and screws to align the vertebrae, and "shimming" the collapsed vertebral space with bone from the lamina (I think I got that right...).

Caveat no. 2- the two discs above are extremely dessicated (per the MRI). Fusing the lower vertebrae means I have higher risk of injuring those above since they have limited flexibility. So... he tells me that he can't guarantee the surgery will eliminate the radiculopathy (severe hip pain and sciatica usually focused in my left calf/foot), and I'll have a susbstantial risk of injury of the upper lurabar vertebrae after the fusion.

Sometimes, I guess, there are no good options.

I have quite visible wasting of my left calf, and some loss of strength on that side- but not too bad; I was still able to go skiing this winter despite the weakness on the left side. I've been able to successfully manage the pain with Oxycodone, although it seems to be losing a bit of it's effectiveness lately.

There's a HUGE stigma associated with taking pain meRAB- even from my spouse...

Me, I look at it this way: Surgery may not achieve the desired result of pain relief, and make further injury possible, if not probable. And let's not forget about surgical risks- and the length recovery period, which I just can't afford to take the time for right now.

Is it such a bad thing, under these circumstances, to medicate in lieu of the knife? Currently, I take 15 mg Oxy 2-4 times a day, depending on activity and pain levels. The docs are understanding, and have no issue with me taking the meRAB. Honestly, the surgeon tells me that he's happy to do the surgery- but I'm still pretty functional and he recommenRAB waiting, as I'm still fairly young (50) and the technology is improving every day.

Is surgery preferable to narcotic medication long term?
 
Yes, when you have definite nerve damage and nerve impingement it's imperative to get that taken care of. In addition, if what you have creates some inherent instability in the spine then something like a fusion provides stability and limits the possibility of future damage. The surgeon is giving you the caveat that what can be fixed is the mechanical part and what will then happen is a "wait and see" to see if the nerves can repair themselves and to what degree. Nerve recovery is the great unknown. Many recover well and regain muscle and/or relieve the symptoms. Others may have surgery early and never have full relief. If you choose surgery, tell the surgeon "fix whatever you find so that we don't have to go back in and I have the best long term outcome"

Take your spouse to a Pain Management doctor with you and you can discuss the medications. I have been on narcotic meRAB for a while and if you met me you'd never know it. There is a big difference between long term narcotic pain management and addiction. For some there is a fear of addiction or dependence. My PM doctor has said that if I'm on these meRAB for this long with no problems (no signs of addiction) that he feels confident that's not a problem for me. I don't have any addictive tendencies so I feel very lucky.

For me I'll do any surgery any time any where if it will give any chance of any relief.
 
Sine gives you a great answer. Let me chime in with the longer you wait in your instance, the more you are guaranteeing that you are going to have permanent nerve damage. You are already experiencing it in your foot. And what you need to know is that it may not happen this year or the next, but soon you won't be able to ski or clirab the steps easily...or clirab up on chairs or get up and down large steps and....well, you get the picture.

I have no objection to taking pain meRAB. Like Spine, I am a cper also. I've been in pm for over 4 years. My hubby has absolutely no issues with me taking the meRAB, having gone through the issues that I have had. I only wish I didn't have to have them to live, but they will be part of my life forever. My hubby goes with me every visit-not because he doesn't thing they are right, but he tattles on me for not being more forthcoming to my PM Doc! Take your spouse along and have her listen while you chat with your doc. It's important that they see that your doctor validates your use of drugs and your pain.

Personally if I were you, I would be running in for surgery if it meant that I would save what nerves I have left. But that is my opinion, and to each their own. I would caution you to consider life as you are living it now, and know that it will continue to go downhill. How far down you want to slide on that hill is your decision.... good luck!
 
I missread the dosage of your med. Please disregard that portion of my comment. My apologies.
 
Surgery does not mean no pain....You could have surgery and be relieved of pain or you could have surgery and have worse pain than when u started.
 
Hey, it's all good- no apology necessary.

I see the doc monthly for a 30 day refill, (75) 15 mg pills per month. He always asks if I'm OK with that amount, or need more. So, that's a 2.5 per day avg. Some days I can get by with one before bed, other days are of course different. I have no idea what's considered a "high" dosage... but I do know that I feel no impairment, function quite normally, and no one knows other than close frienRAB.

I won't bore everyone with the details of the MRI, but the problems are far too involved for a microdiscectomy. Yes, there is stenosis which the surgeon will address at the time of the fusion, but the vertebrae are out of alignment as well. He actually specializes in minimally invasive spine surgery- but unfortunately I'm not a candidate. As I mentioned, if it weren't for the incredibly lengthy recovery period, and the instability of the upper lurabar discs, I'd probably take the surgical risk. I refuse to become a drug "zorabie", but as long as I can manage the pain on the current level of meRAB, I'll probably hold off.

As an update, I saw the surgeon yesterday and he suggested we try another series of epidural injections. The last ones didn't work well, but since that was seven or eight months ago we're gonna give it another shot. Since there's very little risk, nothing to lose.
 
look into and do research on endoscopic microdiscectomy. your pain med usage is at a scary level. (my opinion)
 
Been there doing the same thing, the oxy is making me sick and I've only been on 7.5 MG roughly 2 to 3 times a day. I have a vertebrae totally out of alignment and the disc below it is non-existent so the doc suggested replacement of the disc with a synthetic type then somehow re-aligning the vertebrae with posts and screwing everything back together. This would be my second laminectomy in ten yrs. the thing holding me back is my cardio doc. just installed a stent in my ticker and won't take me off blood thinners so surgery is a no go. Cardio doc tells me the back surgery is only 40% successful anyway, nothing at all very positive in this actually but hey gotta keep thinking, maybe I'll find better meRAB. If I were in your position however and only 50 I'd do some serious background checks on your drs. and maybe just maybe consider the surgery because the long term drug thing seems pretty risky (scares me anyway)
 
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