Know this is Tungsten Area, but . . . .

I have Verizon. I wouldn't have their DSL, but whoa almighty their cellular coverage is FANTASTIC. What confuses me is that they already have a "phone" PocketPC. Why on EARTH would Palm do this, if wasn't the beginning of the end?

If PalmSource is now Japanese, they then "don't care," and release the hardware to anyone for quick $$$? What would coax people back to a the next generation PALM Treo if they've already released a WiFi to a Windows based unit . . . while some people still haven't got the WiFI card for the PALM Treo they bought and paid for???!!!

I just can NOT figure out what the heck's going on OldBlue (and all of you) - can someone explain this most bizarre marketing? What's next - Mac using Internet Explorer?
 
Paul,

It's simple in my mind. Microsoft hasn't figured out how to market a PPC device to capture the market share. Palm has figured out how to do it with a PDA and the Treo. The Treo has outsold every combination of smartphone that Gates has tried to sway into the market by 10 fold and then some.

The only phone that comes close to selling as well as a Treo was the RAZR, for a converged device.

So the quick of it is: If you can't beat them join them ( or maybe buy them). Bill has caved to the powers of the Palm OS.


Now here is the another point: This Verizon phone- specs say is has EVDO which is faster than DSL. You can turn this into a true modem for your laptop and surf faster than most DSL home connections.

Now since Palm is really not the manufacturer of the phone, HTC is, but it is a Palm design - this partnership that will be announced on Monday is definitely going to be interesting.

There is speculation that all that is going to be announced on Monday is a partnership and that this phone won't necessarily be released on the same day. Probably later on but I'm certain that it will be demo'd becasue Bill Gates does like to show off.
 
PalmTealLover,

I suspect that Palm, Microsoft, and Verizon all feel that this will increase their market share. ? By offering a Treo with Windows Mobile OS, Palm may attract a lot of otherwise iPaq, Axim, and Blackberry customers. Some of Palm?s competitors may even fold their PDA line. ? Microsoft gets to spread its influence (or ?tentacles?, as some may say) further into the PDA market and on the apron strings of arguably the best designed and best selling smartphone currently available. ? Verizon gets to beat Cingular, T-Mobile, and Sprint to the punch with a Windows Mobile OS Treo. When you?re the only game in town, the customer has to buy from you or do without. ? A lot of other questions come to mind. Will Palm offer Windows Mobile versions of LifeDrive, Tungsten, and Zire? How long before Cingular, T-Mobile, and Sprint release their Treo 700w, if at all? Ultimately, who will gain and who lose in the long run? This is going to get very interesting.

With regard to WiFi for the Treo, I bought Palm?s WiFi SD card a couple of years ago for my T3 and it works great! I have been hoping that Palm would release the drivers necessary to allow their WiFi card to work on the Treo, since they released drivers for the T5. Maybe that will happen soon now that the Treo 700w will work with an SD WiFi card.

As far as Mac using Internet Explorer, I?m afraid I have to be the bearer of bad tidings:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/internetexplorer/internetexplorer.aspx?pid=internetexplorer

OldBlue
 
Moose,

It?s always a pleasure to read your posts. I think you?re spot on regarding the relationship between Palm, Microsoft, and Verizon. What is that old saying about ?strange bedfellows?? ? Has to do with politics and/or business, doesn?t it?

You say that ?Bill has caved to the powers of the Palm OS.? ? I wonder if Palm hasn?t caved to the powers of Windows Mobile? ? Maybe it?s a bit of both.

Does Verizon offer EVDO? (I probably should not be so lazy and just explore Verizon?s web site.) I?m using EDGE with Cingular, but I do not find it any faster than their former GPRS. Also, Cingular?s unlimited data plan is too expensive for me, but since you can now watch live television on the Treo 650 through MobiTV?s live video stream, I may look around for a more reasonably price unlimited data plan.

If Bill Gates provides a demonstration of the Treo 700w, let?s hope he spent the previous day practicing the demo to make sure the presentation is flawless, unlike several of his previous demos! I?ll be tuned in to the live web cast on Monday morning from work. Will look for your views and comments (and PalmTealLover?s, too) on Monday evening.

OldBlue
 
Part of the reason you won't find EDGE any faster than GPRS is because of the limitation of the browser. A speed difference would be noted if the Treo is used as a virtual modem connected to a laptop. Also, EDGE hasn't been completely rolled out into Cingulars system so it may be reverting to GPRS on the handheld. If memory serves, EDGE is only in place in Seattle, Dallas, New York but not yet in our beloved California.

I think it would be fitting that if Bill demo's the 700 that he have to pull out a reset pin and well......

I guess to know what's really going to be happening - we will just have to wait till tomorrow. I may get up and watch the conference since it's at 6:00AM PST.
 
Moose,

Cingular has had EDGE nationwide since early last year and maybe even the year before that. I apologize for my fuzzy memory, but I recall my BIL signing up for it when he upgraded his phone and I signed up shortly thereafter. I just can't recall exactly when, but it was well over a year ago. I'll go through my old Cingular bills to see when they first included charging me for EDGE. Here's a quote from Cingular's dealer data sheet:

The Cingular EDGE network provides extensive coverage throughout the U.S. Cingular has upgraded its entire GSM?/GPRS network with EDGE technology, enabling mobile workers with a faster, better wireless experience throughout the U.S. The EDGE footprint covers approximately:
? 13,000 cities and towns
? 39,000 miles of highway
? A population area of 253 million​

And here is a link to their current coverage map:
http://onlinestorez.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/maps/pop_coveragemap.jsp?zip=94804&mapt=dataMap

Nevertheless, if I am limited by my browser, then that explains why I do not notice a difference between GPRS and EDGE. Thanks for that info.

It would be pretty amusing if Gates has to do a reset of the Treo 700w! (I wonder if he read the manual and knows how to do a soft reset?)

Also, don't get up so early. The press conference is scheduled for 9:00 am PST from San Francisco. Here's Palm's official press release, including URLs for the live web cast, depending upon data speeds:
http://www.palm.com/us/company/pr/news_feed_story.epl?reqid=760556

Hope you have a great Sunday. Looking forward to your comments tomorrow evening.

OldBlue
 
OldBlue - thanks. My Cingular bill is not seen since it goes to the company. I had thought they hadn't incorporated EDGE completely but did notice your supplied thread....must be the EVDO that's not there yet.

One of the web pages I read said it was 9:00AM EDT, so thank goodness. I'll still be up at 6:00AM because that's pretty much normal.

We will see what transpires and go from there.
 
Well, as usual I've learned a lot from both Moose and OldBlue - EVDO vs EDGE . . . Good Lord. I've gotta get out of the cave. My two cents just for edification: Verizon now has, for $59/month - full automatic DSL wireless - no WiFi to mess with, no $39/mo to sit in Starbucks, or lurking around "sniffing" for a WiFi HotSpot, or compiling mile long lists of "where you can go."

$59. Done. Pull over to the parking lot and go, as long as you're in a major city (at least in California) such as Los Angeles/Orange County/Riverside. I checked the map coverage, since I'm sometimes up in Moose's neck of the woods - and ZIPPO. NADA. No Fresno or Bakersfield - nothing til Sacramaneto and San Fran "hubs." But that should fill in quick. Vegas is covered, Phoenix too - not Tucson. It's spotty to say the least - but should prompt the "Gods Among Men" - Time Warner RoadRunner - to rival it, and according to my local office "look for something in January."

Whether you go laptop or Palm, Palm OS or Windows - this will have a great effect on wireless surfing for a fixed price without depending on "Site ABC" to get a connection.
 
PalmTealLover

At least a couple of people have compiled lists of free WiFi hotspots for you already.

WiFi Free Spot is the older and more extensive list. It started as a USA list and has since listed worldwide coverage. The list is now based upon reports contributed by its readership. (I have contributed about 5 or 6 Bay Area hotspots to the listing.) The list claims there are 6 free WiFi hotspots in Bakersfield and 5 in Fresno. Here's the URL: http://wififreespot.com/

MetroFreeFi.com started out in the Bay Area, but has expanded to cover pretty much all of California. It claims 4 in Bakersfield and 1 in Fresno. Here is the URL: http://bayareafreefi.com/

If you're mid-way between the two cities, they claim there are 2 or 3 in Visalia! ... Notice I use the word "claim(s)" a few times. It might be wise to call them and be sure the free WiFi service still exists. :)

Of course, having the Verizon DSL wireless service as you do sounds much more convenient. Do you connect with an air card? And how far to your travels take you? (Nosy question on my part. No obligation for you to answer.)

Hope you find the two URLs useful.

OldBlue
 
OldBlue: NO prob, Dude! Hee hee. Pretty much along those lines. I wish the rest areas were wifi- that would be a boon for truckers and anyone travelling through the "Valley." California is wiring up all state parks before year end so that's one good thing.

I do not yet have the $59 Verizon DSL - I want to wait til RoadRunner has THEIRS, as I have that here at home and would rather go without FOOD than lose RoadRunner! God, it's amazing. Cox Cable is even faster according to stats. If one of those "hop onboard," I'm there - even if it's more money.

PM me with your email addy.
 
They've been talking about this new Treo running Windows for a while now in TreoCentral's forums. (Rumors initially had it called the Treo 670.) While it's almost heresy to have a Palm running Windows Mobile, maybe it will sell more Treos overall. (They will have a Palm OS version too, supposedly.) It reminds me of when TV Guide transplanted Oprah's head onto Ann-Margret's body for a cover photo-- improper, yes, but it got Ann-Margret's body into more people's hands, so to speak.
 
I watched the simulcast and here are my thoughts for OldBlue to review:

1. It will be a Palm killer in the long run for any PC user. I'm not sure how Mac and Linux user's will be impacted. Long term = 5 to 6 years.
2. It will be a Blackberry killer in the short term. Why spend money for the BES server software when you won't have to. If your company is using Exchange/Outlook as it's primary email client then why bother getting a Blackberry that is "locked" and basically just a phone with email. The blackberry device was the "step" that was needed for business. It's now antiquated beyond belief. Other than check email and get a phone call - it doesn't do anything else.
3. Good move on Palm's part to partner up with Microsoft.
4. Good move on MS part to partner up with Palm.

It will be the best (or it has the potential) of both worlds. They put in the simplistic approach of Palm into a device that has the look and feel of Windows.

From an email perspective, Snappermail, Chatter, etc should all be somewhat worried. The transition will occur rapidly in the enterprise arena.

Those mentioned programs had better focus on IMAP and POP3 enhancements and forget trying to solve the Exchange Active Sync issue because - it will be solved with hardware that everyone in a "business" environment will want.
 
I would support PalmTealLover first impression, the beginnig of the end.
Palm interrupted its projects on OS6, i.e. they are supposed to not have any more innovative sofware plans. THeir last "flagships" models, where pretty clearly downgrades (T5 less than T3, LD less than T# and possibly T5). The rumored Tx, looks to me, if it will come out as announced in several pages, will be a downgrade too. THe only good hardware move in last time, was Tro 650, although inherited from handspring...and now they are serving this, on the gold palte, to M$...
It's sad to me, but it lloks like that we won't have Palm for long time...it's like a chess or Risiko game, once you start loosing your strongest pieces...

Luigi
 
Thanks for the report Mooseman. I'm not quite sure of the meaning of your first point: "1. It will be a Palm killer in the long run for any PC user."

Other than that I think we know as much now as we did last night, and just for once I'd like to see more than marketing mumbo jumbo and more plain honesty. Alluding to what Luigi stated so well, "the Fat Lady is warmin' up."

Convergence and chat and run-it-up-the-flagpole and midpoint client delivery while finding the market niche in a flat-tiered keyhole operative-based . . . . . . . . .

SNORE! What about the all-magical "OS?" What about how it RUNS? Luigi is right - OS6 WAS interrupted. The latest models WERE downgrades. Out of sheer audacity, the good one (T3) was discontinued. Think how many sales they would have made this month if T3's were still available. It's a boat adrift without a rudder. Even a good Tungsten E with Memory Jack would be better than a T5. How often do you see our old familiar heated discussions about SOFTWARE any more? Some of you are too busy with updates to make units even function, and worry about what should be the mundane problems of backing up!!

Is there going to be one? At all? You know . . . a NEW palm? Are we stuck with 256MB T5s and LD's for another year? Most of us HAVE phones. Since my m505 i couldn't give a hoot about telephoning anyone on my Palm. I liked it for the vast array of software Will your old programs work? Most importantly - and I nominate Mooseman for this because he's so calm and professional AND BETA TESTED for them for heaven's sake . . . can ANYONE just walk in the door (wherever that IS, these days) and just say, a la Nicholson voice:

"Excuse me. Good Morning. What in the blazes are you people actually DOING??"

I'm dreadfully sorry for this rather emotional rant (so unlike me!) and did not witness the "sellout" personally -- but I'm just plain . . . sad.

I wonder if anyone in the audience, amidst the cheering and posturing . . . heard the sound of deck chairs being arranged on the Titanic.

Happy phoning.
 
Palm and Microsoft are collaborating with their respective engineers. As such, once the Palm software engineers give away their trade secrets etc, then Microsoft will be able to emulate the Palm OS on a Microsoft controlled device.

Software developers will start crossing over to create programs that will work on a Microsoft based OS and they'll emulate their current interface etc on that platform. This is why Microsoft, IMHO, decided on this collaboration.

Palm will "sell" it's expertise in smartphone design and eventually be blended into the campus at Redmond, albeit perhaps a seperate campus in Sunnyvale.

The world is moving to converged devices. Let's face it. The Treo is actually smaller than the original Palm Pilot. Therefore, why would anyone (and we won't be given the option) carry two devices - phone and pda? Technology is moving at the speed of business.

The first users of these device will be business. It will integrate seamlessly with their existing Outlook/Exchange servers in a wireless fashion. Add streaming video to that mix via the EVDO or EDGE technologies and now you have a device that will carry your personal info (PDA) act as a phone, act as a small TV, take a snapshot (don't forget the 1.3megapixel camera) and what else: Oh, MP3, email, office documents just about anything you can do with your computer.

Ok, that said - why will it be the death of Palm: Specifically, Palm can not crack the business community properly. Why, because Microsoft wouldn't give them the code. MS could crack the PDA market with their highpowered over priced non-consumer friendly devices.

Ok, Palm is about to lauch a $99 color cheapie PDA. Why? Because the market is still there and untouched for some users and because when it comes to business devices - Microsoft has that market virtually cornered.

Now Apple releases the Ipod phone through Cingular. Why, because Apple appeals to high end users for graphics and artististic software (photos etc). So they go after the low end market on "tunes" with the new cellular phone.

Ok, now the vision of these two companies again, IMHO:

The day is coming quickly when you won't need a personal PC on your desktop! ...........What? has Moose lost his animal mind?

Bear with me: Corporate email is now moslty Exchange which can be accessed via the new OWA protocol from virtually any PC that has a Internet connection - without Outlook. Personal email has moved to IMAP such as Google, Yahoo, Juno etc......you don't need a PC to access it....just a connection.

With EVDO speed, you can hook up a keyboard to your mobile device and have a full size screen on your desktop and then have gigs of storage on Google or Yahoo transfer pictures from your SD card to this remote hard drive........what do you need a computer for. What do you need a PDA for?

The day is coming that you'll carry a Treo like device and it'll provide you with all of the above.....and that day is close - first quarter of 2006 based upon today's press conference.

Business will endorse this quickly which will cause the price to drop when production kicks up to meet demand and then you'll be buying a $399 phone with rebates for $50......why would you then just buy a PHONE.

That's the end of Palm rolled into MS.

I give it 5 to 6 years before the network speed of all of the remaining wireless carriers is fast enough to handle it. And EVDO is already at 1.5MBs which is faster than most DSL.
 
Jesus. Talk about short and sweet. Thanks Mooseman. I hate to start off with "I remember . . . . . " --- guess it doesn't matter. Oh what the hell. I remember being so excited about my very first new first application for the 505 - 54k - called "TealMover." TealScript was the same size. Programs change, but so far not the very reason you were "supposed to have one."

Surely there must be a need to "log information" if you will, whether it be with accounts, shopping lists, "stuff you need to finish later in Excel" - anything - and a handheld PDA will still be needed. I cannot convey how MUCH time the T3 saves me - and you with your contact history and Agendus - Godsend, right?

Whatever software that remains useable will HAVE to conform, then, to MS standards? In other words - we used to say the rosary for anyone buying a Pocket PC because they just "didn't understand" what they were missing.

You're saying (I'm asking) - we're all pretty much gonna have PPC's, and any beloved software we have (and I'm talking about a lot of freewares as well as commercial stuff we paid for) that we think we need - will in short and in short order be "removed?"

I've done a heck of a lot of business on the phone. I'm very good at it - so good I don't need a boss. I understand technology "moves at the speed of business" and you're probably a PRIME example of "needed connectivity," what with the Treo experiment your firm made, and then the Blackberry that didn't work out - but what about the fellow who just needs programs he DOESN'T WANT stored on a server to access and alter information he doesn't want stored on a server? Has Internet Explorer moved at the speed of business?

If this was the next leap and we had Pentiums in our temples and blinked twice to email each other - I could see the leap. But what bothers me is the $$$$ angle of the information "keeping." You said:



I've already found on a simple picture taken on my Verizon phone - that THAT'S the reason they disabled the Bluetooth to other than Motorola equipment. Even got an admission from a store manager and a Regional Manager. You see, I can't Bluetooth my v710 to the T3. I'm expected to pay 35 cents to email it to myself or store in "Pix Place." Imagine the ransom they'll get for corporate spreadsheets. You haven't lost your animal mind - but they're not exactly dealing with a chimp in me, either.

I thank you very much for the enlightenment - and no exaggeration there - it's staggering in fact. But it's also a little unnerving, because up until now WE decided what was "cutting edge" and moved at our own speed. We weren't told. And there's a difference.
 
PTL, I think as you stated: but why would you carry a seperate device when it's already on your phone - which your going to take to the store anyway.

And why would you buy a PDA for $100 when a converged device will be priced pointed at say $200?

Also, you want to go on vacation and you've got a video security system installed and while your gone - you call up your system and see the house is intact and secure. Or you call back and use the system secretly to spy on your babysitter while your at the movies? Oh, wait -you won't need to go to the movies because you'll be able to watch it on your converged device screen or download it and watch it at home.

Media (mostly music) is being downloaded rather than purchased. I was speak, I'm awaiting delivery of a NanoPod and I'm downloading music into my iTunes in preparation.

PDA sales have been declining for 3 years and they won't recover. It will be a good marriage for both Palm and MS. I don't think that Bill Gates now believes that all programs that the consumer uses will have to work in Word, Excel, Access or Outlook. He's partnered with Palm to get that extra edge of Jeff Hawkins touch and foresight.

Its not the true end of Palm but it will be a vastly different company and it will become part of Microsoft in the long run, again, IMHO.

I actually think it's a good thing.
 
Well, thanks for being so positive - that actually means quite a lot to me. I have a T3, which isn't a phone, because the Treo isn't a T3. It is vastly inferior, IMHO, lacks the display and memory capability, and isn't even that good a phone. We'll leave out the practical small points, like the fact I still have 50MB of free RAM left, yet am running 53 apps.

My vacation video surveillance will be better viewed on a laptop and movies will certainly view better on a 15" screen. If my choices are $100 and $200, I'm curious who will fill the $100 "void" with a Palm OS. Because as it stands now, you can't actually synch information with Excel . . . unless you have a Palm. I may be behind the times but unless it's happened very recently, there is no "Docs 2 Go" for Pocket PC.

LIke I said when I started this thread, and apparently confirmed to one degree or another in that press conference - it will indeed affect more than the "Treo." It's certainly affected me and while eager to see the developments, I've got some "thinkin' to do."

Anyone know where there's any Tungsten E's left? And what's Brayder's website again? I've got some antiquated hardware to "MemoryJack!"

G'nite MM - and thanks TONS for all the input and especially the positive slant on it all. I thought if anyone would be upset by all this it would be you - but guess times change and we'll just have to see what rolls down the hill.
 
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