M
MR TRAILWAYS
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just their misinterpretation of biblical doctrine
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JW: Only 144,000 people out of the history of the world will be in heaven?
Desirae Rose
New member
I've thought about this, and I came up with 2 very likely reasons for this:
1) Someone was terrible at math
2) This was created long ago back when people weren't aware of how big the world is, and when people usually stayed in one area their whole lives
1) Someone was terrible at math
2) This was created long ago back when people weren't aware of how big the world is, and when people usually stayed in one area their whole lives
Why does it seem logical to you that ALL good people MUST go to heaven?
How do you explain the Bible's promise that the righteous will live forever on Earth? (Psalm 37:29)
If all good people are going to heaven to serve as priests and kings and there will be no righteous people on Earth, on behalf of whom are they serving as priests? Is there any glory in rulership if everyone is a king in Heaven and there are no Earthly subjects? (Revelation 5:9, 10; 20:4)
Has Satan succeeded in thwarting God's purpose in having a paradise Earth populated by righteous humans? (Genesis 1:28; 2:15; Isaiah 45:18; 55:10, 11)
Is it an Earth filled only with animals, that God is subjecting to Christ? (Hebrews 2:5-9)
Can you explain these scriptures?:
Proverbs 2:21:
"For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be LEFT OVER in it."
Psalm 115:16:
"As regards the heavens, to Jehovah the heavens belong,
But THE EARTH HE HAS GIVEN TO THE SONS OF MEN."
How do you explain the Bible's promise that the righteous will live forever on Earth? (Psalm 37:29)
If all good people are going to heaven to serve as priests and kings and there will be no righteous people on Earth, on behalf of whom are they serving as priests? Is there any glory in rulership if everyone is a king in Heaven and there are no Earthly subjects? (Revelation 5:9, 10; 20:4)
Has Satan succeeded in thwarting God's purpose in having a paradise Earth populated by righteous humans? (Genesis 1:28; 2:15; Isaiah 45:18; 55:10, 11)
Is it an Earth filled only with animals, that God is subjecting to Christ? (Hebrews 2:5-9)
Can you explain these scriptures?:
Proverbs 2:21:
"For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be LEFT OVER in it."
Psalm 115:16:
"As regards the heavens, to Jehovah the heavens belong,
But THE EARTH HE HAS GIVEN TO THE SONS OF MEN."
Lol! Because the whole religion is....let's just say, misinformed. Im sure God is only going to choose 144,000 people out of the 300 billion fa fillion people on earth. Man believing this is almost worst than believing God doesn't exist. If an atheist were to actually believe this, then the false accusations the atheists throw at God would actually seem reasonable. It's more than a 144,000 people in a quarter of my city. So that means God would just condemn oh outside of cleveland, the whole world! Good thing this is false and WHOEVER calls on the name of the Lord WILL be saved. And it will be a lot more than 144,000 people.
THE_ANSWER
New member
Is heavenly life set out in the “New Testament” as the hope for all Christians?
John 1:12, 13: “As many as did receive him [Jesus], to them he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith in his name; and they were born, not from blood or from a fleshly will or from man’s will, but from God.” (Notice that the context, in verse 11, refers to Jesus’ “own people,” the Jews. As many of them as did receive him when he came to them in the first century became God’s children, with heavenly life in view. The verbs in the text are in the past tense, so this passage is not referring to all people who have become Christians since then).
Romans 8:14, 16, 17: “All who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons. The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.” (At the time this was written it was true that all who were led by God’s spirit were God’s sons whose hope was that they would be glorified with Christ. But this had not always been true. Luke 1:15 says that John the Baptizer would be filled with holy spirit, but Matthew 11:11 makes clear that he will not share in the glory of the heavenly Kingdom. So, too, after the gathering of the heirs of the heavenly Kingdom, there would be others who would serve God as followers of his Son and yet not share in heavenly glory).
To how many does the Bible hold out hope of heavenly life?
Luke 12:32: “Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom.”
Revelation 14:1-3: “I saw, and, look! the Lamb [Jesus Christ] standing upon the Mount Zion [in heaven; see Hebrews 12:22-24], and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. . . . And they are singing as if a new song . . . and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.”
Is the number 144,000 merely symbolic?
The answer is indicated by the fact that, after mention of the definite number 144,000, Revelation 7:9 refers to “a great crowd, which no man was able to number.” If the number 144,000 were not literal it would lack meaning as a contrast to the “great crowd.” Viewing the number as literal agrees with Jesus’ statement at Matthew 22:14 regarding the Kingdom of the heavens: “There are many invited, but few chosen.”
Who SELECTS the ones who will go to heaven?
2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14: “We are obligated to thank God always for you, brothers loved by Jehovah, because God selected you from the beginning for salvation by sanctifying you with spirit and by your faith in the truth. To this very destiny he called you through the good news we declare, for the purpose of acquiring the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Romans 9:6, 16: “Not all who spring from Israel are really ‘Israel.’ . . . It depends, not upon the one wishing nor upon the one running, but upon God, who has mercy.”
What will those who go to heaven DO THERE?
Revelation 20:6: “They will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.” (Also Daniel 7:27)
Daniel 7:27: “‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, and all the rulerships will serve and obey even them.’”
1 Corinthians 6:2: “Do you not know that the holy ones will judge the world?”
Revelation 5:10: “You made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over [“on,” RS, KJ, Dy; “over,” AT, Da, Kx, CC] the earth.” (The same Greek word and grammatical structure is found at Revelation 11:6. There RS, KJ, Dy, etc., all render it “over.”)
Do those of the “great crowd” referred to at Revelation 7:9, 10 also go to heaven?
Revelation does not say of them, as it does of the 144,000, that they are “bought from the earth” to be with Christ on heavenly Mount Zion.—Rev. 14:1-3.
The description of them as “standing before the throne and before the Lamb” indicates, not necessarily a location, but an approved condition. (Compare Revelation 6:17; Luke 21:36.) The expression “before the throne” (Greek, e•no´pi•on tou thro´nou; literally, “in sight of the throne”) does not require that they be in heaven. Their position is simply “in sight” of God, who tells us that from heaven he beholds the sons of men. (Psalm 11:4; compare Matthew 25:31-33; Luke 1:74, 75; Acts 10:33)
The “great crowd in heaven” referred to at Revelation 19:1, 6 is not the same as the “great crowd” of Revelation 7:9. The ones in heaven are not described as being “out of all nations” or as ascribing their salvation to the Lamb; they are angels. The expression “great crowd” is used in a
John 1:12, 13: “As many as did receive him [Jesus], to them he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith in his name; and they were born, not from blood or from a fleshly will or from man’s will, but from God.” (Notice that the context, in verse 11, refers to Jesus’ “own people,” the Jews. As many of them as did receive him when he came to them in the first century became God’s children, with heavenly life in view. The verbs in the text are in the past tense, so this passage is not referring to all people who have become Christians since then).
Romans 8:14, 16, 17: “All who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons. The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.” (At the time this was written it was true that all who were led by God’s spirit were God’s sons whose hope was that they would be glorified with Christ. But this had not always been true. Luke 1:15 says that John the Baptizer would be filled with holy spirit, but Matthew 11:11 makes clear that he will not share in the glory of the heavenly Kingdom. So, too, after the gathering of the heirs of the heavenly Kingdom, there would be others who would serve God as followers of his Son and yet not share in heavenly glory).
To how many does the Bible hold out hope of heavenly life?
Luke 12:32: “Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom.”
Revelation 14:1-3: “I saw, and, look! the Lamb [Jesus Christ] standing upon the Mount Zion [in heaven; see Hebrews 12:22-24], and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. . . . And they are singing as if a new song . . . and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.”
Is the number 144,000 merely symbolic?
The answer is indicated by the fact that, after mention of the definite number 144,000, Revelation 7:9 refers to “a great crowd, which no man was able to number.” If the number 144,000 were not literal it would lack meaning as a contrast to the “great crowd.” Viewing the number as literal agrees with Jesus’ statement at Matthew 22:14 regarding the Kingdom of the heavens: “There are many invited, but few chosen.”
Who SELECTS the ones who will go to heaven?
2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14: “We are obligated to thank God always for you, brothers loved by Jehovah, because God selected you from the beginning for salvation by sanctifying you with spirit and by your faith in the truth. To this very destiny he called you through the good news we declare, for the purpose of acquiring the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Romans 9:6, 16: “Not all who spring from Israel are really ‘Israel.’ . . . It depends, not upon the one wishing nor upon the one running, but upon God, who has mercy.”
What will those who go to heaven DO THERE?
Revelation 20:6: “They will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.” (Also Daniel 7:27)
Daniel 7:27: “‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, and all the rulerships will serve and obey even them.’”
1 Corinthians 6:2: “Do you not know that the holy ones will judge the world?”
Revelation 5:10: “You made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over [“on,” RS, KJ, Dy; “over,” AT, Da, Kx, CC] the earth.” (The same Greek word and grammatical structure is found at Revelation 11:6. There RS, KJ, Dy, etc., all render it “over.”)
Do those of the “great crowd” referred to at Revelation 7:9, 10 also go to heaven?
Revelation does not say of them, as it does of the 144,000, that they are “bought from the earth” to be with Christ on heavenly Mount Zion.—Rev. 14:1-3.
The description of them as “standing before the throne and before the Lamb” indicates, not necessarily a location, but an approved condition. (Compare Revelation 6:17; Luke 21:36.) The expression “before the throne” (Greek, e•no´pi•on tou thro´nou; literally, “in sight of the throne”) does not require that they be in heaven. Their position is simply “in sight” of God, who tells us that from heaven he beholds the sons of men. (Psalm 11:4; compare Matthew 25:31-33; Luke 1:74, 75; Acts 10:33)
The “great crowd in heaven” referred to at Revelation 19:1, 6 is not the same as the “great crowd” of Revelation 7:9. The ones in heaven are not described as being “out of all nations” or as ascribing their salvation to the Lamb; they are angels. The expression “great crowd” is used in a
CindyComesBack
New member
The 144,000 mentioned in Revelation, if you read it, refers to 12,000 from each of the Twelve Tribes of Israel. It's referring to this number being all that will be saved of the JEWS.
Which means that if this happened today, we have around 15 million Jews in the world, yes? Yes. So this means that God is going to GENOCIDE all 15 million except the 144,000.
Hitler would be SO proud of God, don't you think?
What a disgusting book the new testament is, with its constant demonizing of the Jews, its lies and inaccuracies about Jewish law and Jewish culture - and ENDING in the outright FINAL SOLUTION of Genocide of almost the entire Jewish people.
Absolutely disgusting.
Which means that if this happened today, we have around 15 million Jews in the world, yes? Yes. So this means that God is going to GENOCIDE all 15 million except the 144,000.
Hitler would be SO proud of God, don't you think?
What a disgusting book the new testament is, with its constant demonizing of the Jews, its lies and inaccuracies about Jewish law and Jewish culture - and ENDING in the outright FINAL SOLUTION of Genocide of almost the entire Jewish people.
Absolutely disgusting.
CindyComesBack
New member
The 144,000 mentioned in Revelation, if you read it, refers to 12,000 from each of the Twelve Tribes of Israel. It's referring to this number being all that will be saved of the JEWS.
Which means that if this happened today, we have around 15 million Jews in the world, yes? Yes. So this means that God is going to GENOCIDE all 15 million except the 144,000.
Hitler would be SO proud of God, don't you think?
What a disgusting book the new testament is, with its constant demonizing of the Jews, its lies and inaccuracies about Jewish law and Jewish culture - and ENDING in the outright FINAL SOLUTION of Genocide of almost the entire Jewish people.
Absolutely disgusting.
Which means that if this happened today, we have around 15 million Jews in the world, yes? Yes. So this means that God is going to GENOCIDE all 15 million except the 144,000.
Hitler would be SO proud of God, don't you think?
What a disgusting book the new testament is, with its constant demonizing of the Jews, its lies and inaccuracies about Jewish law and Jewish culture - and ENDING in the outright FINAL SOLUTION of Genocide of almost the entire Jewish people.
Absolutely disgusting.
Susan Boyle
New member
its not its just one more failure in their cult
nmwcocobaby88
New member
Rev. 14:1 Clearly tells us that only 144,000 will be going to heaven. Ho is it possible, because it is what Jehovah has put in place. Anything and everything is possible for Jehovah.
Q
Q&A Queen
Guest
With God all things are possible. Heaven is not, as so many believe a reward for ALL who have accepted Jesus Christ. We are clearly told that those 144,000 will be kings and priests in heaven with Christ... part of that kingdom Jesus himself taught us to pray for. Think of a government ... any government. Are not the rulers a miniscule minority of those governed. In some cases even just one king or dictator.
Desiree: No offense but math has absolutely nothing to do with it. Again, look at human governments. Are there not set structures for those in positions of authority? One president, 250+ senators; however many congresspeople. That's not math. That's what has been decided upon as far as representation for the people is concerned.
Desiree: No offense but math has absolutely nothing to do with it. Again, look at human governments. Are there not set structures for those in positions of authority? One president, 250+ senators; however many congresspeople. That's not math. That's what has been decided upon as far as representation for the people is concerned.
I
imported_Leslie H
Guest
You mean that Jesus only invited 11 faithful disciples to share the last evening meal with him?? What were the rest supposed to do? Eat their passover feast at their own homes? How unfair!
Every government has those who take the lead, and have more responsibility, and those who benefit from their wise leadership. God's kingdom is ultimately, a government, ruled from heaven, with those on earth living in paradise conditions, the way humans were intended to live. Would you turn up YOUR nose at paradise, just because someone else had something different? I wouldn't.
"Pastor Fart is a proud member of the KKK, and also a practicing Evangelical minister. How do those two groups he claims affinity with coincide with each other? God is not partial, and Jesus was a Jew.
Every government has those who take the lead, and have more responsibility, and those who benefit from their wise leadership. God's kingdom is ultimately, a government, ruled from heaven, with those on earth living in paradise conditions, the way humans were intended to live. Would you turn up YOUR nose at paradise, just because someone else had something different? I wouldn't.
"Pastor Fart is a proud member of the KKK, and also a practicing Evangelical minister. How do those two groups he claims affinity with coincide with each other? God is not partial, and Jesus was a Jew.
You mean that Jesus only invited 11 faithful disciples to share the last evening meal with him?? What were the rest supposed to do? Eat their passover feast at their own homes? How unfair!
Every government has those who take the lead, and have more responsibility, and those who benefit from their wise leadership. God's kingdom is ultimately, a government, ruled from heaven, with those on earth living in paradise conditions, the way humans were intended to live. Would you turn up YOUR nose at paradise, just because someone else had something different? I wouldn't.
"Pastor Fart is a proud member of the KKK, and also a practicing Evangelical minister. How do those two groups he claims affinity with coincide with each other? God is not partial, and Jesus was a Jew.
Every government has those who take the lead, and have more responsibility, and those who benefit from their wise leadership. God's kingdom is ultimately, a government, ruled from heaven, with those on earth living in paradise conditions, the way humans were intended to live. Would you turn up YOUR nose at paradise, just because someone else had something different? I wouldn't.
"Pastor Fart is a proud member of the KKK, and also a practicing Evangelical minister. How do those two groups he claims affinity with coincide with each other? God is not partial, and Jesus was a Jew.