Just an unnerving thought

[Christropher Brando]

People trade, from my point of view to make it easier to get in the places they want to get in without wasting time. That's why I used to trade and it worked entirely fine.

As an example, Ive been trying to get into E by making requests, talking to people and the such as my trading days are behind me... but to no avail. I probably don't get in because of my past actions and peoples' opinions on traders and thats fine. But, I have about 2000 CD's and 1500 LP's that I can rip to FLAC at any time the right way, but Im too much of a scum obviously to contribute to such a tracker. Unfortunate for everyone.

As far as all traders being bad, all I can say if fuck off. I guarantee, that I, Mr. Trader, have done more for the trackers that I belong to that 80-90% of the people on this site. I'm an uploader at 4 sites, I donate to those who I deem worthy, I help people out with hardware/software/torrenting problems they have in the forums of certain trackers and I seed for fucking ever. Not being arrogant, but just stating facts.

Also, this breaking the rules of the tracker shit is just bogus. Giveaways are also against tracker rules, wheres the witch hunt there? Plus, what we do as file sharers is STEAL, we steal other peoples' shit. Where is the rules and respect there on our parts or the trackers' parts?

So people trade, and I am not saying that everyone is or is not like me, and I do only use myself as an example because that's all I know and I don't pop my face in other peoples' business. You should all take heed to that little gem.

Don't judge a book by its cover and you will get through life in a much better light.

 

[Julyana]

Trading. I consistently read posts by other "respectable" members of any forum I'm at that they find it morally unacceptable to trade, and anyone who does so has no dignity, no integrity, no respect for tracker wishes, and several other colorful adjectives thrown out of an oration from hell.

Why is it so? Why can people not understand that we all live by certain different/conflicting sets of morals. If we were all subjected to the same code of morals/ethics, there would be no debates about war, euthanasia, stem cell research etc. Yet there is. The main point I'm driving is: We're all pirates who are too much of scum to go to a store to buy a 10$ DVD collection, and yet somehow in there, with a complete disregard for the accepted norm of adhering to rules, we wish to impose rules upon those who are beneath us, while failing to observe that they are simply trying to cheat the system we are plateaued at, just as we are trying to cheat a system higher than ourselves.

To put it simply: With what authority does one have the right to judge another's behavior, especially when it comes to piracy habits.

PS: Since I'm usually open about why I do things, it was a post by idoleyes. However, it was not the defining reason, more like a trigger that set off this thread after I had noticed others doing the same. So no, this thread is not directed at anyone, I'm just hoping for some insightful responses from which I can see the angle other people see trading from.

 

[sabs]

People trade, from my point of view to make it easier to get in the places they want to get in without wasting time. That's why I used to trade and it worked entirely fine.

As an example, Ive been trying to get into E by making requests, talking to people and the such as my trading days are behind me... but to no avail. I probably don't get in because of my past actions and peoples' opinions on traders and thats fine. But, I have about 2000 CD's and 1500 LP's that I can rip to FLAC at any time the right way, but Im too much of a scum obviously to contribute to such a tracker. Unfortunate for everyone.

As far as all traders being bad, all I can say if fuck off. I guarantee, that I, Mr. Trader, have done more for the trackers that I belong to that 80-90% of the people on this site. I'm an uploader at 4 sites, I donate to those who I deem worthy, I help people out with hardware/software/torrenting problems they have in the forums of certain trackers and I seed for fucking ever. Not being arrogant, but just stating facts.

Also, this breaking the rules of the tracker shit is just bogus. Giveaways are also against tracker rules, wheres the witch hunt there? Plus, what we do as file sharers is STEAL, we steal other peoples' shit. Where is the rules and respect there on our parts or the trackers' parts?

So people trade, and I am not saying that everyone is or is not like me, and I do only use myself as an example because that's all I know and I don't pop my face in other peoples' business. You should all take heed to that little gem.

Don't judge a book by its cover and you will get through life in a much better light.

Do you think that makes you a "typical" trader?

Assuming everything you wrote is true, that would make you a rare exception, IMO.

 

[i am so peng its unreal!]

I dunno in my eyes trading leads to the wrong people getting onto a site. Trading and selling usually lead to the downfall of a site cause its brings a lot of negative attention.

 

[Carol R]

A terrorist country is called terrorist because of the vast majority of terrorist inclined people of the country where good people also exists.Trading is the same,Good members and bad members exist but bad outweighs good by a large proportion.Generalisation is inevitable

 

[JT!]

I don't blanket judge every trader to be a "bad" person, just as I don't blanket judge (obviously ) everyone who doesn't to be a "good" one.
In the specific case I think you are referring to though I believe there is a totally different set of values involved .That person is totally unconcerned about anything or anyone but himself. He trades for no reason but that it gives him a sense of power/accomplishment/fulfillment that he obviously ( being the ass-hole that he is)couldn't have otherwise and doesn't give a shit if anyone/anything is hurt in the process
Someone who doesn't factor in how their actions maybe adversely effecting others for no better reason than to be( in their own mind at least) a "big man" is well deserving of all the contempt I can give him.

 

[Edu G]

Do you think that makes you a "typical" trader?

Assuming everything you wrote is true, that would make you a rare exception, IMO.

As I said, "I am not saying that everyone is or is not like me" (as you would have seen if you read my post) , but how do you know? That's the point.

 

[try to be]

People trade, from my point of view to make it easier to get in the places they want to get in without wasting time. That's why I used to trade and it worked entirely fine.

As an example, Ive been trying to get into E by making requests, talking to people and the such as my trading days are behind me... but to no avail. I probably don't get in because of my past actions and peoples' opinions on traders and thats fine. But, I have about 2000 CD's and 1500 LP's that I can rip to FLAC at any time the right way, but Im too much of a scum obviously to contribute to such a tracker. Unfortunate for everyone.

As far as all traders being bad, all I can say if fuck off. I guarantee, that I, Mr. Trader, have done more for the trackers that I belong to that 80-90% of the people on this site. I'm an uploader at 4 sites, I donate to those who I deem worthy, I help people out with hardware/software/torrenting problems they have in the forums of certain trackers and I seed for fucking ever. Not being arrogant, but just stating facts.

Also, this breaking the rules of the tracker shit is just bogus. Giveaways are also against tracker rules, wheres the witch hunt there? Plus, what we do as file sharers is STEAL, we steal other peoples' shit. Where is the rules and respect there on our parts or the trackers' parts?

So people trade, and I am not saying that everyone is or is not like me, and I do only use myself as an example because that's all I know and I don't pop my face in other peoples' business. You should all take heed to that little gem.

Don't judge a book by its cover and you will get through life in a much better light.

I absolutely understand your point of view puckface, and personally know other ex-traders like you that are similarly great members of the trackers they belong to. But 4pirates & shalafi are also traders, as was tudor/basilheydens/trollin thunder and what exactly have these individuals done for the torrenting community ?
These are only a few examples, and I agree extreme ones, but there are two types of traders, there are those like you that trade for personal use, and then there are the collectors.
Trading simply to have 'it' but then becoming bored and discarding the membership is a security risk for the tracker, the account is no longer that of the person and quite often these accounts end up in the hands of previously banned users, who were banned for legitimate reasons.
Active traders usually aren't desirable as members because they are too busy covering their tracks to participate in the tracker much, the a/c is just kept ticking over because it is a trophy a/c. Often with this type of trader the a/c was created with the intention of passing it on, an anonymous throwaway email and the minimum needed to keep the a/c active. These a/c's can be passed on several times, and then of course there are the buffered a/c's created simply so that someone can hit'n'run the a/c to death then go on to the next buffered a/c.
All of this is a direct consequence of trading, or rather the second type of trading, where a/c's are treated as baseball cards. There are forums out there where users brag how many times they are a member at trackers, and show off how many times they have been banned like noddy badges.
Bizarrely enough the less the 'level' of the tracker the worse this problem is because of how disposable the a/c is in the eyes of the collector/trader.
It is this kind of moronic collecting which is the true problem and causes tracker staff so much grief.
The problem really is how do you define 'good trading' as opposed to 'bad trading' ? A line has to be drawn somewhere, these websites set themselves up as private trackers not public ones. They did this to offer a certain security to their members and also give better speeds than hit n run land does.
So although there are examples of great users who were traders like you puckface, from my own experience they tend to be the minority and anyone who deals with the other side, with users lying all the time and the bullshit stories you have to listen to sometimes, it tends to harden you to a certain extent, luckily however a certain percentage simply aren't that bright.
The point I am trying to make is that trading has the capacity to do great damage to a tracker website from leeching & banned members through to trophy a/c's nursed along to show someone's e-peen, not all traders or trades do this I agree, but the collector attitude and the marketplace of values based on tracker levels doesn't ultimately do the trackers themselves alot of good, how can it?
I understand you as an individual and your motives I do not understand the whole marketplace mentality of the collectors passing memberships around like baseball cards.

 

[adam2235]

Someone trades because he has no use of a tracker anyway and inreturn he brings another user who may or maynot use the tracker.Trading is wrong because trackers has a rule implemented "No trading".If you feel like breaking the rule according to morals,feel free and get banned.Atleast you have proved your point,didnt ya?

To put it simply: With what authority does one have the right to judge another's behavior, especially when it comes to piracy habits.

You are joining a tracker willingly remember?No one forced you into joining a tracker and you signed up agreeing the terms and conditions.You can bitch and wine how much the rules sucks but if you violate the rules youll be kicked out.

 

[Corinyy!]

I agree with chinchi11as and basically what most of you have said.It should precipitate some thinking when you see somebody make a request for an invite yet in that same thread apprise you on how his trade thread for the same is fairing.

Personally I'd call that stupid but considering the fact that we came to know of BT differently ,then I think excuses like culture become admissible.Some of these people truly don't know what is expected of them on trackers regardless of what that wall of text of rules say.I don't know what percentage of you guys read EULAs while installing apps but I figure that number is as small as of those traders who bother to read tracker rules let alone take them seriously.

Not all traders are bad,some of these people have proven to be really useful.Personally I know of one whose name appears on /staff.php of a famous ratioless tracker that he happened to trade his way into.Call that selfish?No,he tried everything else to get in there but this was the only way that worked for a tracker that he really needed and knew he would enjoy.

So yes most traders are scum(and romania tops this list),

Some are just victims of ignorance,circumstance and illiteracy(most of indo-paki n the middle east falls here) but clearly not all traders encapsulate the term shitbag.

 

[little_pedro96]

imo most who trade are doing so for rarity shit.

1) buffer in "low level" tracker, get invites
2) trade invite/buffered account for "high level" tracker
2.5) if banned, register a dupe account, and start tracker bash @ fst
2.51) if banned, be sure to get another account/invite to the tracker and abuse it to max
3) repeat

i would assume it's like a game to them, collecting baseball cards and whatnot.


sure some trade just to get in trackers that they want to and they stay clean and contribute to sites they like. But that's probably the vast minority.

 

[marchingbrassgirl28]

Perfectly understandable. I don't condone trading, either. However, people seem to think it has something to do with morality, or that trading is outright wrong. My main gripe is the fact that while one might choose that trading is not a beneficial path for him/herself, another might have the moral rule-set that allows him to break the rules.

I don't understand why either party should try to impose their opinions on the other. That's the point of this thread.

I don't blanket judge every trader to be a "bad" person, just as I don't blanket judge (obviously ) everyone who doesn't to be a "good" one.
In the specific case I think you are referring to though I believe there is a totally different set of values involved .That person is totally unconcerned about anything or anyone but himself. He trades for no reason but that it gives him a sense of power/accomplishment/fulfillment that he obviously ( being the ass-hole that he is)couldn't have otherwise and doesn't give a shit if anyone/anything is hurt in the process
Someone who doesn't factor in how their actions maybe adversely effecting others for no better reason than to be( in their own mind at least) a "big man" is well deserving of all the contempt I can give him.

Thank you. That's the sort of explanation/reasoning I'm looking for, and yes, in that certain case, I agree with you that the person did not deserve a better treatment than the one received, however, it's not only you doing it. It would be foolish to point out your response as a stray. People do/say this sort of thing all the time. I see traders being harassed simply for the choices they make. Sure, they break the rules but I mean come on, why assume the moral high ground. This all goes back to, "He who is without sin among you, let him throw the first stone."

Someone trades because he has no use of a tracker anyway and inreturn he brings another user who may or maynot use the tracker.Trading is wrong because trackers has a rule implemented "No trading".If you feel like breaking the rule according to morals,feel free and get banned.Atleast you have proved your point,didnt ya?

You are joining a tracker willingly remember?No one forced you into joining a tracker and you signed up agreeing the terms and conditions.You can bitch and wine how much the rules sucks but if you violate the rules youll be kicked out.

I have never had gripes with the dictatorial system of running a tracker, and I know how/why it works considering I've staffed at a few places (nothing extraordinaire). I understand the security risks it produces, and the dangers of breaking that perfect balance of the benevolent ecosystem of utopian trackers. I'm yet to see a legitimate reason why people refer to traders as "The scum of the BT world" or "Without morals/integrity/dignity". To me, it's unheard of to impose one's own beliefs on another.

I've never heard of someone getting ridiculed because they don't upload content to a tracker (in the spirit of sharing), which is just as much of a security risk to be honest, just the same as I've never heard of anyone getting ridiculed because they don't seed for years as other people do (in the spirit of sharing). So why is it that when it comes to trading (STILL in the spirit of sharing) do people find the impending necessity to enforce their opinion of the matter unto others? Is it simply because you're brainwashed into trusting every power tripping tracker administrator out there?

 

[Daveed]

Well art put it fairly well, though he should use the enter key more but I'd like to add that for me it's turning the hard work of others that they've give you freely into a commodity. Tracker staff, the coders, admins, sysops, mods all put in a great deal of time, effort and risk for nothing more than the joy of staffing. They've created private communities for friends and friends of friends to come and share warez. They don't want just any tom dick and harry joining up. They want people who know each other and are likely to respect the community. It's as simple as that it's just disrespecting something that is there to be shared with people you know...otherwise it may as well be a public tracker.

There are other concerns as well but they've been covered fairly well.

 

[Murcatko]

THis is BT not anarchy

There are rules, and I feel that it is morally wrong to break them.
We are a community of ppl "BT" and we ahve rules to abide by

Anywhere you go are rules, You say "We are a bunch of ppl breaking rules, why follow tracker rules"

Well go to prison, its filled with ppl that break rules for a living, and they have rules/morals then ever.

Oh yeah

Traders are scum

 

[speaker of truth]

it's honor among thieves, or pirates as it were. you agree to the tracker rules when you join. if you don't like them, don't join the tracker. if you break them, you are acting dishonorably.

 

[Bat-te-ry]

.Personally I know of one whose name appears on /staff.php of a famous ratioless tracker that he happened to trade his way into.Call that selfish?No,he tried everything else to get in there but this was the only way that worked for a tracker that he really needed and knew he would enjoy.

This is not an indictment of trading or anyone in particular but you lost me with that comment.
First you said he "needed" it .Clearly no one no matter who they are ,where they live or what they want out of life "needs" any bittorrent tracker ,it simply comes down to (selfish)desire .
If that person felt that whatever personal morals he had were worth tossing away for that particular tracker rather than being laudable it is both hypocritical and ( again) self-serving (selfish).
Then you go on to say he did it because he "knew" he would would enjoy it.
The only thing I have to say to that is it must be nice to be prescient .

 

[۩ ۩ ۩ ۩ ۩]

it's honor among thieves, or pirates as it were. you agree to the tracker rules when you join. if you don't like them, don't join the tracker. if you break them, you are acting dishonorably.

But why is HONOR used as a word here? Why is morality brought into the subject, while calling traders people with corrupt morals? Am I the only one that sees the irony in all of this? Surely someone else realizes this is all so very wrong.

I understand breaking rules. I abide to them as much as I can, sir! If I break a rule, then I deserve the consequences that I agreed to pay for, in advance to me breaking said rule. But does that actually mean I have no honor? No morality? No dignity/self-respect? My whole issue is why do people push such words/concepts in an environment that thrives against these very values.

EDIT: And if someone realizes that just because you break certain values expressed in our society (adhering to copy-right laws), does not mean you should not uphold morality/integrity in other cases, then why is that same capacity/understanding not applied when viewing trading?

 

[Since You Asked]

It kind of reminds me of the concept behind "stealing" other sites uploads. Oh, it's "morally wrong" and unacceptable to "steal" a bland old scene release from SCC to upload to your tracker, yet it's used in the same context where everyone is already "stealing" files? Really? Do they have any idea how hypocritical that sounds?

Oh yeah

Traders are scum

Congratulations on ignoring the entire point of the thread.

 

[rockstarbeau7]

I'm yet to see a legitimate reason why people refer to traders as "The scum of the BT world" or "Without morals/integrity/dignity". To me, it's unheard of to impose one's own beliefs on another.

New people who join BT and want to get into trackers are made into believing or will follow what the tracker staff has to say.Once they grow out of this phase they too view Traders as just traders and not people Without morals/integrity/dignity.Only New people,ass kissers,retards who cant think for themsleves and Staff,and only according to these "genre",are traders whatever they say.For me atleast Traders get what they deserve,ban from trackers.Nothing more,nothing less.

 

[MG08]

Trying to hold a bunch of people breaking the law to a set of rules is laughable at best. Just my opinion though...

And traders do not bring sites down, these types of sites (torrent sites) are a problem waiting to happen without the help of traders/sellers, its just a matter of time.

Edit: I should probably mention I don't encourage rule breaking or trading. I just find it funny, gathering a bunch of law breaking people together then getting upset when rules are broken.