Is this Barnes & Noble crazy or am I?

  • Thread starter Thread starter bengangmo
  • Start date Start date
If it was my decision I wouldn't have done the transaction for you.

You were happy with the price at purchase, you were happy with the product, you don't get to return it just because we are selling later at a lower price.

Naturally, if we have a "no questions asked" return policy, I will return the things, and refund your money. You will then be welcome to repurchase them AFTER I put them back on the shelf to give other people "fair chance" to take advantage of the sale.
 
doreen said:
Sadly, I don't think this is true anymore ( although I suspect it was in the past) I've heard too many people talk about getting that TV ,camera etc and returning it after the event ( and while those same people complain about restocking fees, they would also never pay full price for an open box). They're not really impulse buyers who might keep the item- they have absolutely no intention of keeping it. It's even moved into clothing- now, when I buy a dress the tags are deliberately placed in such a way that the dress cannot be worn with the tags still attached.
Click to expand...

The rent for free ractice has been around for a long time. Stores tolerated it becaise it was a small percentage of customers. Over time , probably a couple of decades, it became so widespread that they knew it was really hurting them. You can look at specific products and see the spiike in returns coorelate to certain dates , or the retirns are abnormally high on a specifc product and word comes up from employees that it's a rent for free deal.
Working in retail since the mid eighties I've seen shifts in customer practices. We even had charts on it in sales meetings
 
Guinastasia said:
No, not caring about the fact that others around you are also waiting is what's making you a dick.

Sometimes a wait is inevitable, of course. However, you sound like you deliberately LIKE the fact that you're causing the line to build up, just to piss off the staff. THAT is being a dick. Don't deliberately TRY to make a scene and take up peoples' time on purpose, just for shits and giggles. It's not the staff that's affected, as much as the people waiting behind you.

IF the store is deliberately being a dick, yeah, go for it. But don't be an asshole yourself.

If I'm wrong, I appologize.
Click to expand...


where do you get the sense that I would like to be inconvenienced myself just to enjoy causing a line to build up or to piss off the staff?

apology accepted ;)
 
It is as if we saw shopping as a competitive sport between ourselves and other shoppers. The important thing is not the actual price paid (we were happy with that, to make the purchase in the first place) but where we stand relative to other buyers. If somebody else gets a better deal, by god we want it too. Even retroactively.
Click to expand...
Isn't that what the free market's all about? As long as there's no deceit or coercion, people are supposed to maximize their own advantage. It seems sort of lopsided if the idea becomes that businesses are supposed to maximize their advantage and customers are supposed to just take what they're offered without question.

That said, I don't see how other buyers are involved. I have no concern if they're doing the same thing I'm doing and getting the same savings.
They try to draw the line, imo, at a point in time that is either within the product's return period, or within a time where most people wouldn't have gotten substantive use and enjoyment from the product. Opened it up and 5 days later it's on super sale? Yeah, we can help you out. Open it up, and 90 days later it's on super sale? Sorry. You got your economic value out of it.
Click to expand...
Valid points.

But again, for those who still haven't got it, the issue in this particular case isn't whether the store will refund my money. They've consistently said they would. The issue is the store wants to put conditions on that refund. They're saying they'll give me my money - but then they want to tell me I can't use that money to buy something that they're willing to sell to anyone else. I say that policy is unreasonable.
 
Little Nemo said:
Overall, the store may find that it gains more from these impulse purchases than it loses from actual returns.
Click to expand...

That would be nice but I think the reality of it would be adversely weighted in the other direction.
When you sell something with a profit margin of 20% and somebody returns it and now you have to discount it 20% because it is open, well now you're bascially making -0- on the transaction.
Not to mention the people who would honestly use the "try-it-before-you-buy-it" method would again abuse it by trying 5 different models before settling on one.

I could share plenty of stories (as well as anyone who has worked retail) where customers cost stores a lot of money.
 
I may be wrong on this (hazel-rah could probably help on this one) but as I recall Barnes and Noble owns their distributor.
Click to expand...

B&N uses multiple distributors, some of whom they own, some of whom they do not. DVDs come from both kinds of distributors. As for the speculation about pricing agreements with distributors having some bearing on the actions of managers regarding sale returns... no. If such agreements exist, management at the store level is unaware of them and thus it is not a factor in their decisions. We get the terms of the promotion, not the reasoning behind the terms.

Little Nemo is, broadly speaking, correct. These sales happen during periods when sales are traditionally low. Their purpose is not to clear stock, it's just to generate sales at a time when sales are low.
 
Little Nemo said:
But again, for those who still haven't got it, the issue isn't whether the store will refund my money. They've consistently said they would. The issue is the store wants to put conditions on that refund. They're saying they'll give me my money - but then they want to tell me I can't use that money to buy something that they're willing to sell to anyone else. I say that policy is unreasonable.
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about you, specifically. Just responding to spark240 on how long they should honor future price adjustments.

I agree with you - I think they're nuts and way wrong. I would also agree with the other poster that thinks this is just employees fucking with you, or, my own read, is that maybe one manager really wanted to get his hands on some criterion collection that you happened to clean them out of.
 
cosmosdan said:
As someone who worked in American retail for years I like your return policy better. I think it places the right amount of responsibility on the consumer to do a bit of research and make sure they are buying something they really want to keep rather than try out.
As I said, American consumers are spoiled rotten by far to liberal return policies. It's interesting what that kind of thing will do to general perceptions and expectations. If an American store had the kind of reasonble policies you describe the aberage consumer would think they're assholes becaue they have $10 to spend and deserve to be treated better.
I've had customers bring stuff back they've had for months and get huffy when they're told they can't return it.
Click to expand...

...okay, because I currently have no life, I looked up the returns policy of most of the big NZ DVD retailers. The Warehouse, Whitcoulls, Real Groovy, Harvey Normans, Dick Smiths Electronics, Borders NZ, all have the same policy: they will not accept DVD returns unless they have to in compliance with the Consumer Guarantee's Act. In simpler words, they will not accept a return of a DVD for any reason whatsoever.

The two exceptions I found were two American-originated companies: K-mart NZ, which has a "change of mind" policy on DVD's, which would exclude the transaction as posited by the OP (as long as the shrink-wrap and security seals are in place), and Electronic Boutique, which is the only company that actively markets and promotes a price-matching policy with other retails stores (but makes no mention of price-matching its own discounts.)

Invariably in a thread like this you will get people like me or bengangmo (an ex-pat Kiwi) not understanding this at all. bengangmo's reaction was the same as mine: but when I noticed that people were agreeing with the OP I needed to check to see if this was an American-only phenomenon. (I note the Canadians have weighed in, and this appears to be common in Canada as well.)
 
El Presidente said:
With the clerk thinking he/she did you a favor, since they presumed you were a fan of Criterion DVDs. Barnes and Noble has no obligation whatsoever to let you know before you make their purchase that they are having a sale.



That's because they realized you were scamming them.




Then why didn't you?



They would probably have been better off if you did, since obviously you sound like a bit of a pain in the ass.

I work in customer service, and have to put up with people like this all the time. You made a conscious, educated decision when you bought the DVDs and got the third one for free, or whatever. The clerk went out of his/her way to let you know about an upcoming sale.

No good deed goes unpunished, as a week later, there you are, wasting valuable time with three levels of management to try and screw Barnes and Noble out of 10 bucks. This was probably going on while there were ten people in line behind you, probably had about 1000 things to do that day, but your petty complaint torpedoed their day.

If they said yes, then, what is to stop you 6 months later from showing up with your unused DVDs to try and con them into another sale?

I bet if the clerk DIDNT tell you, and you found about the sale after it was over, you'd probably call the store to complain, as well.

My advice is this: put your DVDs in your DVD player. Watch them. Get over it.

Stop being a freeloader. This is why so many people in customer service are nasty to customers---they just cant take people like you anymore.
Click to expand...

Well, aren't you just a ray of sunshine!
 
El Presidente said:
I also raised my eyebrows over the "three levels of management" deal but let it go, Now I'm curious:



So, you really didn't talk to "three levels" of management. If I have this story straight, you spoke to:

1. The clerk (probably with several people in line behind you patiently waiting to make their legitimate purchases)

2. The "guy who showed up" after the clerk made a call

3. The "guy who showed up" after the clerk (or the first "manager") made a second call

4. The "guy who showed up" after the clerk (or Manager 1 or 2) made a call (there's no female managers at Barnes & Noble, apparently)

So, in other words, after the first manager said "no", you made these poor bastards call for three other managers at the same level? Or your just assuming that Manager #2 outranked 1 and 3 outranked 2?

How many levels of management can there possibly be at one Barnes and Noble? I need more details, this sounds obtuse.

How long did you hold up the entire store over this? I imagine the now, probably 20 other people in line were getting pissed at you about this.
Click to expand...

No, really, time for you to get out of the customer service field altogether.
 
Hampshire said:
That would be nice but I think the reality of it would be adversely weighted in the other direction.
When you sell something with a profit margin of 20% and somebody returns it and now you have to discount it 20% because it is open, well now you're bascially making -0- on the transaction.
Not to mention the people who would honestly use the "try-it-before-you-buy-it" method would again abuse it by trying 5 different models before settling on one.

I could share plenty of stories (as well as anyone who has worked retail) where customers cost stores a lot of money.
Click to expand...

Customers have very little realisitic grasp of profit margin and the expenses of running an operation. Sure some items have a big mark up and by itself it looks like greed, but other items have very little profit and many items are eventually sold below cost. Those few that have a little or a lot of mark up have to make up all the exspense of operation and loss. It ain't easy.

We sold LCD TV wall mounts for $29.99 which is ridiculously cheap if you've shopped for them. One older gent asked for a little discount and I politely said no. He was offended.
 
El Presidente said:
No not really, since it is simply someone puffing out their chest and writing their fantasy of how they'd like to teach a retail store some sort of lesson. The only way you'd have free time to do all that would be if you didn't have a job.

In your dreams.
Click to expand...

Tell me, do you masturbate as you're typing up these gems that you then post?
 
El Presidente said:
With the clerk thinking he/she did you a favor, since they presumed you were a fan of Criterion DVDs. Barnes and Noble has no obligation whatsoever to let you know before you make their purchase that they are having a sale.

That's because they realized you were scamming them.

Then why didn't you?

They would probably have been better off if you did, since obviously you sound like a bit of a pain in the ass.

I work in customer service, and have to put up with people like this all the time. You made a conscious, educated decision when you bought the DVDs and got the third one for free, or whatever. The clerk went out of his/her way to let you know about an upcoming sale.

No good deed goes unpunished, as a week later, there you are, wasting valuable time with three levels of management to try and screw Barnes and Noble out of 10 bucks. This was probably going on while there were ten people in line behind you, probably had about 1000 things to do that day, but your petty complaint torpedoed their day.

If they said yes, then, what is to stop you 6 months later from showing up with your unused DVDs to try and con them into another sale?

I bet if the clerk DIDNT tell you, and you found about the sale after it was over, you'd probably call the store to complain, as well.

My advice is this: put your DVDs in your DVD player. Watch them. Get over it.

Stop being a freeloader. This is why so many people in customer service are nasty to customers---they just cant take people like you anymore.
Click to expand...

You're crazy. The OP isn't scamming OR freeloading. That particular Barnes & Nobles store is being retarded. I have done exactly what the OP described with unopened DVDs, they adjusted my price at the counter (I signed a few credit card slips) and sent me on my way.

The only time I had a problem with a return was with a Benneton outlet in DC and I think the only reason was because they were about to close the store and everyone in the store was about to lose their job.
 
Let me ask this for those who feel Barnes and Noble has a valid point.

Suppose the fifty percent off sale wasn't at Barnes and Noble. Suppose it was at their rival Borders.

Now I go back to Barnes and Noble and they agree to refund my money. But I mention the reason why I'm returning the items. And they say, "We're willing to refund your money. But not if you're going to just go and spend that money buying the same movies at Borders."

Do people feel that's reasonable? That a refund can be made conditional on a promise not to spend it on something?
 
I don't fully understand the pile on here of El Presidente. Particularly that last post regarding masturbating, but I guess thats the pit.

But also I don't understand that if you accept one sales deal which is a 'special' that is, the buy two get one free, can you then take advantage of another special, that is, the reduced price?

And if after that the unsold items in the sale end up in the 99 cent bin can you continue to nickel and dime them to that level. Note I am not commenting on whether its 'ardent budgeting' or penny pinching.

But where is the line drawn in these cases?
 
Back
Top