Is this Barnes & Noble crazy or am I?

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I know. Some of you are saying it doesn't have to be an either/or issue.

Barnes & Noble was having a sale on DVD's last month. If you bought two, you got a third one of equal or lesser value for free. Which is essentially a third off if you pick them right.

I bought six DVD's last week that happened to all be Criterion DVD's. After I checked out the clerk told me that they would be having a sale on Criterion DVD's the following week with all of them being half off.

With the clerk thinking he/she did you a favor, since they presumed you were a fan of Criterion DVDs. Barnes and Noble has no obligation whatsoever to let you know before you make their purchase that they are having a sale.

I was a little annoyed he waited until after I had checked out to tell me the items that I had just bought were going on sale the following week. But I figured it was no big deal. I just left all of the DVD's and the receipt in the bag in my car.

Today I went back to the same Barnes and Noble. I confirmed that I could return them all for the price I had paid for them. So I said I wanted to return them all and then buy them all back at the sales price.

And they said I couldn't do that. I went through three levels of managers and they all refused.



They all agreed I could return the DVD's and get my money back. And they obviously agreed I could buy DVD's at the sales price. They even agreed that if I returned the DVD's I had bought they would just reshelf them and put them back for sale. But they said I couldn't buy back the same DVD's I returned.

That's because they realized you were scamming them.

Obviously I could have gotten around this. I could return the DVD's and then sneak back into the store in disguise a few hours later and buy them back. I could return the DVD's at one store and buy the same movies at another store. I could give somebody else the money and have them buy the DVD's for me.

Then why didn't you?

But this was just so stupid. Can anyone come up with any reason why this policy would make any sense? Right now I'm half way tempted to return all of the DVD's after the current sale ends and keep my money. "There, you didn't sell them to me for a third off. You didn't sell them to me at a half off. You didn't sell them at all."

They would probably have been better off if you did, since obviously you sound like a bit of a pain in the ass.

I work in customer service, and have to put up with people like this all the time. You made a conscious, educated decision when you bought the DVDs and got the third one for free, or whatever. The clerk went out of his/her way to let you know about an upcoming sale.

No good deed goes unpunished, as a week later, there you are, wasting valuable time with three levels of management to try and screw Barnes and Noble out of 10 bucks. This was probably going on while there were ten people in line behind you, probably had about 1000 things to do that day, but your petty complaint torpedoed their day.

If they said yes, then, what is to stop you 6 months later from showing up with your unused DVDs to try and con them into another sale?

I bet if the clerk DIDNT tell you, and you found about the sale after it was over, you'd probably call the store to complain, as well.

My advice is this: put your DVDs in your DVD player. Watch them. Get over it.

Stop being a freeloader. This is why so many people in customer service are nasty to customers---they just cant take people like you anymore.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

How long do you think it takes me to threaten those actions at B&N? All day?

Well, maybe for you, since your charisma would be holding things up.

Wow.

Your really hung up on that "charisma" post, aren't you? Did it bother you that bad?

 

[Musicat]

Let me get this straight. The store will let you return all 6, and you can buy anything in the store subsequently except those particular 6? Is there something in the fine print that says that? After you return them, do they keep a record of the ones you purchased and returned?

Return all 6, then get a friend to buy the same 6 when they are shelved, at the discount price.

 

[Rumor_Watkins]

Wow.

Your really hung up on that "charisma" post, aren't you? Did it bother you that bad?

yeah, some asshat retail employee claiming that they would refuse to adhere to the return policies of their company because they stupidly claimed they were being scammed, and then pat themselves on the back by claiming they'd be able to flummox said customer into buying more things is just one of my buttons.

you probably couldn't sell toilet paper to someone with diarrhea, though, so maybe I should've held off on the button pushing.

 

[RickJay]

I work in customer service, and have to put up with people like this all the time. You made a conscious, educated decision when you bought the DVDs and got the third one for free, or whatever. The clerk went out of his/her way to let you know about an upcoming sale.

A sale he was then denied the opportunity to take advantage of by virtue of the clerk not telling him about it until after he'd already bought the DVDs.

Sorry, but this was not a trouble customer. The store's policy is idiotic. He was complaining because the store's policy was ridiculous.

 

[cosmosdan]

...okay, because I currently have no life, I looked up the returns policy of most of the big NZ DVD retailers. The Warehouse, Whitcoulls, Real Groovy, Harvey Normans, Dick Smiths Electronics, Borders NZ, all have the same policy: they will not accept DVD returns unless they have to in compliance with the Consumer Guarantee's Act. In simpler words, they will not accept a return of a DVD for any reason whatsoever.

The two exceptions I found were two American-originated companies: K-mart NZ, which has a "change of mind" policy on DVD's, which would exclude the transaction as posited by the OP (as long as the shrink-wrap and security seals are in place), and Electronic Boutique, which is the only company that actively markets and promotes a price-matching policy with other retails stores (but makes no mention of price-matching its own discounts.)

Invariably in a thread like this you will get people like me or bengangmo (an ex-pat Kiwi) not understanding this at all. bengangmo's reaction was the same as mine: but when I noticed that people were agreeing with the OP I needed to check to see if this was an American-only phenomenon. (I note the Canadians have weighed in, and this appears to be common in Canada as well.)

As I said , American consumers are spolied rotten and have come to have certain expectations that make it hard for smaller businesses to compete. I'd like to see return policies shift a bit to return more of the responsibility back on the customer, but competition is such that it doesn't happen often. Once WalMart and maybe a couple of other large companies own almost everything I expect policies to change.

 

[not_alice]

Let me ask this for those who feel Barnes and Noble has a valid point.

Suppose the fifty percent off sale wasn't at Barnes and Noble. Suppose it was at their rival Borders.

Now I go back to Barnes and Noble and they agree to refund my money. But I mention the reason why I'm returning the items. And they say, "We're willing to refund your money. But not if you're going to just go and spend that money buying the same movies at Borders."

Do people feel that's reasonable? That a refund can be made conditional on a promise not to spend it on something?

A store is not obligated to sell to you. It is transaction between private actors. Short of discrimination on certain axes, they are free to send you packing wit the same money you came in with.

 

[Astro]

Let me ask this for those who feel Barnes and Noble has a valid point.

Suppose the fifty percent off sale wasn't at Barnes and Noble. Suppose it was at their rival Borders.

Now I go back to Barnes and Noble and they agree to refund my money. But I mention the reason why I'm returning the items. And they say, "We're willing to refund your money. But not if you're going to just go and spend that money buying the same movies at Borders."

Do people feel that's reasonable? That a refund can be made conditional on a promise not to spend it on something?

I think you need to stop for second before continuing to argue about B&N's bad faith corporate police regarding returns. It is, I believe, very unlikely this is really B&N corporate policy. It is far more likely you got stuck with group of part timers who were shining you on, or possibly you were being dealt with by some very poorly informed or trained personnel.

You really need to nail down what the truth is. B&N retail policy as you described it being dictated to you is contradictory to 99.99% of large box retail policies in the US. The likelihood this is real vs being bad info you received is pretty small IMO.

 

[SP2263]

They are crazy.

Every other major store in the country, if you go back within the time you are allowed to return an item, will do a price adjustment for the new sale price. I have never heard of a store not doing it for the exact reason that if you can return something then you can do it then buy it back on sale. It's just easier for everyone if they adjust the price, it's less restocking for them.

You're not a pain in the ass customer nor are you scamming. If their policy says you can return something within a certain time, then you can. They cannot control what you buy with your returned money.

 

[Hampshire]

I guess the big question for me still is whether these titles were available during the 50% off sale.
If the titles that were being returned were ready and available to be purchased out on the floor (identical copies), then I would have returned them for the customer and then let them go out and buy identical titles at the new sale price.
If those titles were no longer available during the 50% off sale I would have returned them but then placed them in the back room for the day making them unavailable for purchase.

(Seperate but related abuse of return policy):
Before the advent of the "restocking fee" people were free to take home an item, try it out, and return it in it's opened box and get a full refund. The store then took these returned items and had to sell them at a discount as "open box" product.
Scammers got wise to this, would buy a DVD player, open it, return it for a full refund, and come back the next day when the unit was returned to the floor as an "open box" item and repurchase it at the discounted price.
How did retailers react? Restocking fee!

 

[cosmosdan]

I'd rather pay a cheaper price as well. But if I buy something one week, and then next week its on special, the last thing on my mind would be to use a company return policy to get a discount. And I can't think of a company over here that would allow this transaction to take place.

...in general, over here in NZ anyway, you can return something under the consumers guarantee act (the goods are not acceptable quality, cannot be reasonably repaired, are not as described, or do not comply with what was promised), but most stores do not have open return policies: especially for DVD's.

As someone who worked in American retail for years I like your return policy better. I think it places the right amount of responsibility on the consumer to do a bit of research and make sure they are buying something they really want to keep rather than try out.
As I said, American consumers are spoiled rotten by far to liberal return policies. It's interesting what that kind of thing will do to general perceptions and expectations. If an American store had the kind of reasonble policies you describe the aberage consumer would think they're assholes becaue they have $10 to spend and deserve to be treated better.
I've had customers bring stuff back they've had for months and get huffy when they're told they can't return it.

 

[Freudian Slit]

That's because they realized you were scamming them.

How is that a scam? You're allowed to return it and get a better deal if you want. If the item has gone on sale and you can return it, why not do so?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

yeah, some asshat retail employee claiming that they would refuse to adhere to the return policies of their company because they stupidly claimed they were being scammed, and then pat themselves on the back by claiming they'd be able to flummox said customer into buying more things is just one of my buttons.

you probably couldn't sell toilet paper to someone with diarrhea, though, so maybe I should've held off on the button pushing.

Golly gee, I'm SO insulted.

 

[Justin_Bailey]

Now I go back to Barnes and Noble and they agree to refund my money. But I mention the reason why I'm returning the items. And they say, "We're willing to refund your money. But not if you're going to just go and spend that money buying the same movies at Borders."

That would illegal. And is completely different from not having a price adjustment policy on previous purchases, which B&N doesn't seem to have.

Expecting them to honor a policy they don't have is like those assholes who bring an unpriced item up to the cashier and expect it to be free. The first clerk last week was wrong. It sucks that you went back to the store and wasted your time, but c'est la vie.

I remember reading some undercover writer's experience at wal-mart, and their overriding concern and message to their new hires was that Wal-Mart did not want to do *anything*, I mean *anything* to upset a customer. Because they knew that from the first day that someone walked through their doors, if they kept shopping there, they would drop a quarter of a million bucks in their stores in their lifetimes.

While I know Wal-Mart is extremely liberal with their return policy, a quarter of a million dollars requires someone to spend $100 a week at Wal-Mart every week for 50 years. That is only possible if someone is a grocery shopper at Wal-Mart and even then it seems high.

 

[spark240]

If price is most important, you probably shouldn't ever buy anything at B&N.

 

[SP2263]

But also I don't understand that if you accept one sales deal which is a 'special' that is, the buy two get one free, can you then take advantage of another special, that is, the reduced price?

And if after that the unsold items in the sale end up in the 99 cent bin can you continue to nickel and dime them to that level. Note I am not commenting on whether its 'ardent budgeting' or penny pinching.

But where is the line drawn in these cases?

The line is drawn at the end of the stated return period. Before that you can return things, they said so. After that you cannot. Once you have your return money back you can do whatever you want with it.

 

[cosmosdan]

Typically, you don't get refunds on opened "copyable" media (although if you know what you're doing with software, you can) here, either. The OP didn't open them up, though.

Why is it so odd to you that the transaction would take place? And, of course they would in NZ, even though you may not think about it in those terms. There's nothing that prevents you from returning the item "because you didn't like it" and then immediately walking back into the store and buying it anew (I mean obv's you have to be a bit discreet about it in some cases). Which is why most stores won't parse that out and will just do the price difference.

As for the opened items receiving a price discount, think of that as customer service. I would hazard a guess that the US retail market is far, far more competitive than the NZ market, so they are almost forced into doing this stuff to keep customers happy (and it's not like they lose on the deal, anyway, I'm sure sales prices still give them profit)

Perhaps but in the US it's understood that you can return it because "I changed my mind" Other cultures have had other policies and other general expectations for a long time and the public reacts differently.
In the US, if a customer said "Nothing wrong with it , I just changed my mind" they wouldn't expect to be questioned. It sounds to me like in NZ the policies and expectations would be different.
We post our return policies. If thiers say, "you can return or exchange items that are defective for X days" then you might expect to be asked, "whats wrong with it?"

 

[Hilarity N. Suze]

B&N is nuts. Most stores wouldn't even make you bring in the ones you bought. They would do a price adjustment based on your receipt.

Buy them somewhere else. Surely they're on sale somewhere else.

 

[cosmosdan]

I guess the big question for me still is whether these titles were available during the 50% off sale.
If the titles that were being returned were ready and available to be purchased out on the floor (identical copies), then I would have returned them for the customer and then let them go out and buy identical titles at the new sale price.
If those titles were no longer available during the 50% off sale I would have returned them but then placed them in the back room for the day making them unavailable for purchase.

(Seperate but related abuse of return policy):
Before the advent of the "restocking fee" people were free to take home an item, try it out, and return it in it's opened box and get a full refund. The store then took these returned items and had to sell them at a discount as "open box" product.
Scammers got wise to this, would buy a DVD player, open it, return it for a full refund, and come back the next day when the unit was returned to the floor as an "open box" item and repurchase it at the discounted price.
How did retailers react? Restocking fee!

That one always pissed me off. Sometimes it was just a rent for free issue. I need a wood chipper for this weekend only so rather than rent one, I'll buy one form Sears, use it all weekend , then return it and expect a full refund. And oh, when they tell me about their new restocking fee and why they had to have it, I'll throw a major hissy because my dignity isn't worth $30 bucks. Getting my way is.

It's also a great exmple of how the less than honest have a real affect on the honest. The honest customer that would never pull that shit still has to pay the restocking fee.

 

[Boyo Jim]

This is really simple. Ir isn't even crazy, though it's pretty stupid. They are viewing this as one complicated transaction, and their accounting/cash register software can't process it.

The can't push the right buttons to make it happen. The cashier who would give you credit for the return is probably not the same person who would re-enter the items into inventory to prepare them for resale.