Is anyone getting tired of the constant superhero show reboots?

Episodic series can build on continuity though. Nearly all the superhero cartoons from the last decade had a lot of continuity and used it to their full advantage.



Say aren't you really enjoying Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood? Isn't that just a remake of the original series but with a few tweaks? Well just as many tweaks as these "regurgitated" supers shows at any rate. (Yes I know it?s closer to the Manga than the original series and that makes it different, but isn?t the same be said of SSM and the other Spidey cartoons?)



When you break it down to its simplest form, like you did, aren't all action shows just "good guy fights bad guy"? What matters most is the execution and how the stories are told not "is this basic premise similar to this other basic premise?"



Except SSM and SMTAS told different stories in different ways in different settings. Anyone who's seen those shows can see plain as day that the only commonality is that they're telling stories about Spider-Man. I also doubt very much that just because I've Seen Amazing Friends means I've seen the new Ultimate cartoon despite them having the premise of "Spidey teams up with other heroes".
 
I don't really mind seeing different superhero shows getting reboots. They can be quite different from each other, as the 80's and 2k3 TMNT series prove. Though, as long as I enjoy the action, characters and I'm engaged in the story, it doesn't matter how different it is from the other series. Plus, having reboots allows for new creative teams to create their understanding of the characters for a new audience.
 
Summing up stuff in one episode is the same thing the comics do at the beginning of an issue with page-long descriptions of the heroes. There's obviously stuff you're missing, like relationships between characters, heroes and villains alike. I doubt Lex's will have the same impact on someone who's never seen S:TAS. Though I will say it's more of a comic thing since their continuity is more convoluted. The DCAU is fairly limited on plot in general.

They're not really comparable at all. I doubt we'll be getting a third Full Metal Alchemist series, the second was just to be an adaption of the manga rather than it's original thing like the first. Superhero cartoons can't really get straight adaption like manga can due to their nature, which is their main difference. They're pretty much just a hodgepodge of the comics every time, and very few step back and go "Wait, how can we make this different than just doing the same thing again"

But the same good guys and the same bad guys?

So they're both not about Peter balancing his school and social life with his superhero life, constantly complaining about the responsibility of being a hero but still trudging on and fighting goblins and octopuses and crime lords? Yeah, the stories themselves are different (somewhat) like in one version Doctor Octopus is a cheesy mad scientist while in another he's while in the other he's a generic mad scientist, but it's still the same mad scientist with mechanical arms as per usual with a story that goes no where until they were both cancelled.

Not until we get a complete revamp of the formula and it becomes altered in such a dramatic way can we really say it's completely different.
 
The difference was that The Spectacular Spider-Man was the only truly good Spider-Man series. That alone justified its existance.
 
Actually there are several continuity based stories that can be just as accessible as the stand alone tales. It's all about intent and execution. I mean I read Flash: The Return of Barry Allen with no knowledge of the Flash history, nor did I read Crisis On Infinite Earths. My only exposure to The Flash were the DC/Marvel crossovers.

Yet I followed it with no problem and enjoyed it as much as the more experienced comic book fans would.

With the proper execution, continuity is just a really good ice cream topping. Improves the taste of the ice cream, but the lack of it doesn't make the ice cream unenjoyable.
 
Exactly. I mean, I really liked "Under the Red Hood", but how much more awesome would it be if it actually involved a Batman we knew and cared about? How much more awesome would it be to see the repercussions of that story later on?




Hey, I'm not asking for fifty years of convoluted stories written by different authors all tied together into one gargantuan universe. It's not an "all or nothing deal", you can have length and continuity without going that far.

The DCAU is hardly what I'd consider "difficult to get into", despite containing multiple shows and spanning 15 years.





I'd say it's a bit more substantial than hot fudge. It's more like the difference between a one night stand and a serious relationship. Continuity, and a lengthy episode count for each individual series, allows the viewer to grow attached to the characters and care about their world.

A one shot DTV is nice and fun, but then it's over and gone just like that. A short-lived series (like Spectacular Spiderman or LoS) is better, but you still end up feeling like you barely got to the meat of anything.
 
So it's different because it's telling a different story mainly based off the source material? Like SSM then. Also telling a straight adaptation is fairly pointless imo as you might as well read the source material if it?s going to be exactly the same.



Like Ed and Al fighting Homunculus? in Brotherhood. Same good guys same bad guys what makes it different is the way they do it.



Again you're dealing with the simplest form of the premise and not accounting for different executions that make the shows different. Also SMTAS did rap up its story up at the end (save for MJ) and SSM story did go somewhere and it was quite different from when it started.



So change all the characters and settings so it might as well be an original show? Which begs the question why not make an original show instead?
 
but what about justice league the new frontier, batman superman public eneimes or batman under the red hood they were close adaptions look and story

most battle manga is formulaic i mean the homunculus and akatsuki from naruto are similar same goes for the arrancar from bleach and revamping a show that much is kinda stupid, I mean lots of battle and romance animes are the same thing, but I guess the hundreds of movies with SUPPOSED original characters mean something,I guess a face lift makes all the difference to you, plus I don't want every action show to end with fighting the ultimate big bad it'd end up being like a video game

DCAU limited in plots??? it has hundreds of plots ,oh.. i forgot they don't count(in your eyes)


and if you really wanted something like that, ultimate spiderman comic did that but it started off trying to get the gist and meaning of who spiderman is and establishing relationships then it dove into that territory by little then alot and even then spiderman's still spiderman no matter what story it is, Themes are ACTUALLY important

It's kinda funny you complain about comics cause they have too much continuity and then you complain about DCAU for sparse continuity, have you actually looked at the shows your praising there all basically video gamed formatted , actually that's pretty funny too
 
Well you're the exception to the rule then. I just know the average person, myself included, is going to get really turned off when they pick up an issue and get slapped in the face with walls of history text and 20 characters you know nothing about but are expected to know them. Opinion, not fact.

SSM wasn't an adaption of the source material, considering the amount of changes everyone complained about. Though when Full Metal Alchemist has dozens of adaptions like Spider-Man, then we can pick this discussion back up.

They both ended on huge cliffhangers.

I prefer thinking of it as improving things. These cartoons are far more accessible and bring in more viewers than the comics do, partially because they change things and make it better.
 
You didn't respond to me Marinite now I don't feel sepical:( ah well I'll keep responding anyways:D

I highly doubt antiyonder is the exception to the rule THERE are actually people who read and buy these yes Marinite I know a shocker:eek::p what's funny is these stories were made to be accessible I mean you don't go in seeing star wars episode 3 excepting the viewer to see the first 2

and I don't need to respond to SSM comment:p

saying the superhero genre doesn't work is like saying mysteries and crime dramas are the same things
 
I'd rather they just stop for a few years altogether.

Why do we need a new Batman show every 3-4 years now? Its gotten ridiculous.

The Batman doesn't even feel that old yet, and already Brave and the Bold is ending too? Wow.
 
I guess theyll tie the next Superman show with the film. Im really sad we dont have more variety. We have more than five networks now and somehow we cant get more shows.
 
Here's my general problem (and I've stated this several times on the Marvel and DC forums).

With the level of "epicness" that comes with most DC and Marvel series, I feel that each company has the responsibility and the duty to ensure that a generation of new viewers is exposed to a good working, trend setting rendition of the characters at hand.

Relaunching a series or launching several overlapping versions of the same character or same series has the net result confusing the interpretation of those characters to those new viewers you are exposing to those characters for the first time.

By and large, I feel it is important to keep one, single style in the hearts and minds of your audience.

There's a couple things I wouldn't have done in the recent past:

  • I wouldn't have launched Teen Titans in the wake of Batman / Superman Adventures like DC did unless it was within continuity.

  • I wouldn't have had The Batman running side by side with Justice League (and Teen Titans). IF ANYTHING, I might have considered it a good idea to relaunch Batman TAS. HE IS a Justice League "Part Timer". The Batman honestly makes less sense to me because its not as if they were tieing directly into the movie which I could have understood better, but The Batman took its own political licenses wherever it saw fit.

  • I wouldn't have launched Legion of Super Heroes in the wake of Justice League Unlimited unless it was a tie in (like Justice League Unlimited suggested it would be).

  • I certainly would have never launched Batman The Brave and the Bold. I can probably agree there are several episodes that were entertaining, but by and large, I don't like the idea of kids being exposed to a kiddie friendly Batman for the first time.

  • In the same thread, I wouldn't have launched Super Heroes Squad, period.

  • Licensing not being an issue, I probably would have tied X-Men Evolution and Wolverine and the X-Men together.

  • I probably would have liked to see Spectacular Spiderman and Armored Suit Adventures follow the same animation style as Wolverine and the X-Men to allow for potential cross over episodes.

  • I probably would have treated the DCU releases VERY differently as a whole. I would have personally liked to see them be anthology type setup. Shared animation styles and keeping the stories designed in such a way that one could believe all of the stories are occurring in the same universe in the event it ever ended up being prudent to tie them together either for a unified movie or for a new series.
Thats a lot of things I would have done different. The end result for all of that would have been more unified, uniformed releases of everything. There *IS* something to be said about rebooting a series but I don't think its really a bad thing to allow continuity to continue for a while within each decade. Theres a certain point where a continuity gets too big to support showing reruns on weekdays to keep your audience involved but when you exceed the number of episodes DCAU had (332 all series included), it was probably ample time to restart.

I can tell you this though, from personal experience (and research supports this), whenever you have a series that can feature crossovers it ALWAYS causes instant ratings boom for an episode or so leading into that episodes and a few episodes after. It's smart business to design your models like this.
 
Here's my thoughts on the upcoming reboots in particular.

Spider-Man, I would have preferred for Spectacular to continue but I understand why it didn't and maybe that couldn't really be helped. I don't mind another Spider-Man cartoon though. Because I love Spider-Man. I didn't expect Spectacular to blow Spider-Man TAS out of the water but it absolutely did. So I'm not passing judgement until I see it.

Batman is never going to not have a show. I've generally enjoyed Batman shows though so that's fine. This next one sounds kinda... I dunno... Not my cup of tea but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.

TMNT, 2003 and 1987 are two completely different beasts. I would like to see various elements of both in a future TMNT. The 2003 series had a good run and honestly they ran out of steam. Even Back to the Sewers was just kind of okay. I didn't expect the 2003 series to be more enjoyable to me, a long time TMNT fan than the 1987 series was but it was that and so much more. I'm a bit iffy about who is producing it but I greatly look forward to the next Ninja Turtles.

Spidey and Batman seem to get the most reboots and shows in general and as they are my two favorite super heroes (TMNT being my favorite non-super hero American comic) I don't mind that but I could see why people might be getting annoyed at them getting so many shows while say Superman hasn't had a show of his own since Superman TAS.

This is why I'm excited for Green Lantern. More super heroes shows than just Spider-Man and Batman are always welcome, if they're good.

Maybe some series get rebooted too often but it hasn't seemingly hurt their popularity in the case of Bats and Spidey and I guess to producers that's all that matters.

However, more original concepts and more lesser known comics getting animated series would be very welcome.

And my final thought and something I think we should all remember. They're not making these reboots for us more times than not. They're doing them for the current generation. As long as there's a new set of kids to sell Batman toys to, we're gonna get another Batman cartoon. Simple as that.
 
IMO I can't see how any of that would've helped any series and more often than not it would've hurt all of those series.

Evo and WatX didn't need to be in continuity with each other and what they did in WatX wouldn't have worked as well if it had been in continuity with Evo.

SSM, IMAA, and WatX didn't need to be in the same style as they weren't in continuity with each other. It would've also hurt SSM and IMAA's animation as they did better fight scenes and animation because of their styles.
 
I can't deny Teen Titans was hugely popular, but whos to say that a Teen Titans set in DCAU wouldn't have been just as popular? Justice League was most certainly in striking distance of Teen Titans. The major difference was exposure. Teen Titans bluntly got more exposure then Justice League did.

Batman The Brave and the Bold --- I just really don't have a defense for. I know I am probably in the minority, but I really didn't want that series to exist. You can call that full out prejudice if you like.

It's fair to say The Batman never measured up to anything in DCAU in ratings or anything akin. It hit the basic 65 episodes that many series do. Talks to expand that universe pretty much crumbled because The Batman didn't have the same following DCAU did.

Hero Squad was a bad attempt to Pokemonise the Marvel universe. It was a bad concept and it didn't exactly garner strong ratings or popularity. I tend to think Marvel damaged their brand a lot with this series. I mean the series is over a year old now and they still haven't managed to show all 52 episodes yet and the game sales for this product were --- errr --- They didn't make ANY chart. I really don't understand how Stan Lee condoned this idea.



Here's my logic behind it. Evo ended somewhat abruptly. True, it had an explosive ending, but it's probably fair to say that it ended before it's time. It had JUST "grown its beard" not too long before the ending.

WatX has a very similar feel. The series wouldn't have had to do much at all to really firm up the connections between the series. For those who saw Evo and were then watching WatX would have probably had a lot of fun seeing how thins evolved between the series (no pun intended) and those who didn't see the series could move on without NEEDING to see Evo, but it would probably be a good way to drive DVD sales BIG TIME.

The truism in all of this is when series connect, there is always a surge in media / product sales for the old series.

Beyond that, my other concern is both series came out in a relatively close span to one another. It would have benefited the generation that grew up with Evo to see a rebirth of the series and maintain continuity. Lets call that simply the awe factor.



Its easy to accept that the series weren't in continuity with one another, but lets be frank here for a moment, there wasn't really any circumstances that occurred one series that could NOT have occurred in the same continuity.

Cross overs, again, is something that spurs HUGE ratings boosts, Thats almost exclusively the reason why Batman The Brave and the Bold exists and why The New Adventures of Batman and Superman exists. Both series tried to monopolize that cross over fan burst failing to really account for the fact that you can't over stimulate your audience.
 
I pretty much agree with you, except I see no harm in "Brave and the Bold" existing. Maybe with a different title character (or no title character, just a rotating cast), though.
 
I honestly don't get why some fans have conniptions whenever someone tries to make comic book super heroes light and kid friendly. Where is it written that super hero shows can only be grim and dark? During the character's long history, Batman has gone through more than 1 phase of being campy. Batman has been light and goofy as well as grim and dark. There is no 1 definitive take on Batman; Batman can be whatever his creators want him to be because he's a fictional character.

As for Marvel Super Hero Squad, I'll concede that it's not perfect, but it's a kiddie show, for crying out loud. It a TV show that's based on a line of toys for little kids. Kids like super heroes too, so I see nothing wrong with a kid friendly take on them. Instead of crying fowl and declaring the franchise an abomination, just don't watch it if you don't like it.

Folks, super hero shows aren't required to be narrow and serious all of the time. Light, goofy and campy super hero shows can be fun too, if handled properly.
 
Here's my opinion. I'm all for another version of a super hero show, as long as it's different from the other versions. The 2003 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon: a complete 180 from the 1987 TMNT cartoon. Batman:The Brave & The Bold: A completely different take on Batman from the Batman:The Animated Series cartoon. But if you throw the exact same thing out there that's already been done before, I'm not gonna lie that it does get kinda old.
 
If I can get into Batman TAS and Batman Beyond after my first exposure being Adam West's 1960s Batman + the Superfriends, then Brave and the Bold is more than a worthy introduction for the caped crusader to today's generation. And with a bonus since it has brought so many other DC characters along for the ride.

Of course, I don't like chibi Marvel heroes. Couldn't make it through an episode of that. But yeah, light-heartedness is fine. There's room for that and DCAU-esque material as well. You'll never see kid-targeted stuff to such a degree that we'll end up living in the 1980s again. Everything is fine, just relax and enjoy. That's my attitude.
 
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