I owe a California Use Tax? WTF?!!!

North Carolina collects "use tax" too -- if you buy something out of state (i.e., order it across state lines) that you would have paid sales tax on if you had bought it in-state, you have to pay taxes on it. However, they made it easy -- if you can prove you didn't buy anything out of state, you're exempt. But, presuming you didn't buy any single item costing $1,000 or more out of state (there's a separate way to report that), you can simply pay an estimated use tax on your state income tax return, which is based on your adjusted gross income. Although we didn't order anything and could claim to be exempt, we chose not to try to prove that, as at our income level our estimated use tax the last few years has been either $2 or $1. So we simply included that on our return for simplicity's sake.
 
The idea that government is entitled to the money is one of the only things stopping me from coming back liberal.

So... Where exactly do you think the money for everything the government does comes from, then?

According to them, my salary over the past 2 years has been 'cut' several percent because last year my salary stayed the same and this year my salary only went up a couple percent when it should have gone up higher.

If you don't get a raise that keeps pace with inflation every year then yes, you are making less money in Year 2 than in Year 1.
 
...and I'm genuinely curious to know why.
No you're not.

You've made clear on this board, hundreds of times, that you're not really curious about anything, and that you are committed only to a hide-bound adherence to a level of ignorance and parochialism supported by your own narrow experiences.

I've told you before that i'm not going to engage with you as if you were an honest and reasonable person, because you're not. For that reason, i have no interest in responding to your "genuinely curious" inquiry.
 
I'm not saying they don't have the right, but they come off as worse-than-Americans when they pretend to not know how it works in other systems or it's above their mental capacities to at least comprehend the whys of the regime.

I'm not pretending not to know how it works- I'm genuinely baffled as to why you'd owe sales taxes in your local state on something you purchased elsewhere; as in, "Why isn't there a "Duty Free Allowance" for interstate purchases of a personal use nature clause in the tax legislation of the relevant states?"

I mean, if I (as an Australian) travel overseas and purchase a digital camera worth (say) $100, I don't have to pay any taxes or duty on it when I return. But what you're telling me is that if you, as an American, travel to Canada and buy a digital camera for $100, you'll owe sales taxes on that camera when you return home (depending which state you live in), despite it being purchased in a different freaking country.

Surely most people- regardless of which part of the world they're from- can see that's not a particularly reasonable state of affairs, and wonder why it's allowed to continue?
 
The idea that government is entitled to the money is one of the only things stopping me from coming back liberal.

So... Where exactly do you think the money for everything the government does comes from, then?

According to them, my salary over the past 2 years has been 'cut' several percent because last year my salary stayed the same and this year my salary only went up a couple percent when it should have gone up higher.

If you don't get a raise that keeps pace with inflation every year then yes, you are making less money in Year 2 than in Year 1.

The money they get comes from people who work.

Now, I'm not saying the government employee doesn't do any work or that it is not important (Hell, I used to teach)...but they don't do any work that generates money.

Now, to get this money to fund their work...they are saying that the work that they do is more important than the people who generated the money in the first place.

Many times, they are right. Some times they are not right.

However, just because a revenue stream exists doesn't mean they are entitled to it. Government these days seems to be in the 'business' of increasing their budgets just because they can. Believe it or not, but it is perfectly ok for a revenue stream to stay with the people involved and not have a government body take some of it.
 
No you're not.

You've made clear on this board, hundreds of times, that you're not really curious about anything, and that you are committed only to a hide-bound adherence to a level of ignorance and parochialism supported by your own narrow experiences.

I've told you before that i'm not going to engage with you as if you were an honest and reasonable person, because you're not. For that reason, i have no interest in responding to your "genuinely curious" inquiry.
Oh, but I am. I honestly cannot fathom what could cause a person to adopt the belief, as you apparently have, that all things being equal it's best to act like an asshole.

But since you alleged believe that I'm not curious about it myself, perhaps you'd be willling to concede that there are other posters who might be curious about it as well.

The way things stand now, it looks like more like you're using my disdain for purposeless cite contests as an excuse to avoid answering a valid question that I'm sure many of are curious about. I know that I don't know of any other poster who is so quick to act like a jerk right out of the starting gate as you are, and I'm sure other people have noticed it and wondered about it too.

So, come on. Be a sport, eh? Tell us all why you're such an asshole? Pretty please with sugar on top?
 
I'm surprised the various state legislatures haven't passed a law saying "Any business providing mail order or internet/online sales to residents in this state must collect sales tax on the item", or lobbied the US Federal Government to pass legislation to the same effect.
 
I'm not pretending not to know how it works- I'm genuinely baffled as to why you'd owe sales taxes in your local state on something you purchased elsewhere; as in, "Why isn't there a "Duty Free Allowance" for interstate purchases of a personal use nature clause in the tax legislation of the relevant states?"

I mean, if I (as an Australian) travel overseas and purchase a digital camera worth (say) $100, I don't have to pay any taxes or duty on it when I return. But what you're telling me is that if you, as an American, travel to Canada and buy a digital camera for $100, you'll owe sales taxes on that camera when you return home (depending which state you live in), despite it being purchased in a different freaking country.

Surely most people- regardless of which part of the world they're from- can see that's not a particularly reasonable state of affairs, and wonder why it's allowed to continue?

One reason it's been allowed to continue is because until recently it wasn't enforced except on large purchases such as cars ( if I buy a car in NJ and register it in NY, I will have to pay NY sales tax on the car minus a credit for whatever tax I paid in NJ) and obvious fraud. In the last few years, states have begun adding a line on tax returns for use taxes with a small "safe harbor" amount depending on income- I think mine was $75.

Another reason is that although people always talk about use taxes being due on out-of-state purchases, that's not really accurate in my state. Use taxes are due whenever the seller does not collect NYS sales tax or collects sales tax at a rate lower than the rate in the county where the item will be used. This includes purchases of goods made out of state or out of the country, but it also includes

- purchases within the state from nonlicensed vendors - mostly sales by individuals
- purchases on Indian reservations
- services provided within the state by either out-of-state contractors or nonregistered individuals

But probably the most important reason use taxes exist is because no state wants to make it legal for its residents and businesses to avoid state sales taxes and thereby give them more of an incentive to purchase goods and services from out-of-state businesses and lot of residents don't want to give that incentive either.

I don't know how many different taxing jurisdictions you have in Australia, but I can get to six different states and a few Indian reservations within a few hours and if it wasn't for the use taxes, I could probably legally avoid paying sales tax on most items- for example, if I buy furniture in Massachusetts to be delivered to NY, I will not be charged the Massachusetts sales tax and unless the company has a location in NY, I won't be charged NY taxes either. Different jurisdictions tax different items ( for example clothing may not be taxed) and I've heard that some jurisdictions exempt out-of-state residents from any sales taxes. My state doesn't want me to be able to do that, and neither do the in-state stores who are obligated to collect the tax and mainly employ state residents. At the moment, there are some number of people who don't do this because it's not worth the risk- eliminate the risk and more will do it.

I have to say, though, a certain amount of what sort of taxes you think are reasonable has to do with what you are used to. Income tax, real property tax and sales and use tax all seem reasonable to me but the idea of personal property taxes makes my head spin.
 
I'm surprised the various state legislatures haven't passed a law saying "Any business providing mail order or internet/online sales to residents in this state must collect sales tax on the item", or lobbied the US Federal Government to pass legislation to the same effect.


Some have. When I was looking into this back in April I think about 8 states had laws like that on the books (I'm going from memory, so forgive the ballpark figure and lack of specifics. None of them were California so for the most part it didn't matter to me or my office). For example iTunes charges sales tax to several state's residents, but not California, because it doesn't have to. IIRC Amazon just started charging sales tax to NY residents because of new laws put in place this past year.

The wheels are turning in reaction to the progress. It's just happening slowly.
 
Relatively small population needing services, a very high business personal property tax in many counties, a midrange personal income tax, and relatively high property taxes. Plus, many services get bumped to counties, which have their own revenue generation capabilities. Compare and contrast with Washington state, which is the opposite: high sales tax, no personal income tax, and very tight state control.

But mostly it's that Oregon's legislative system makes it very, very hard to create or raise taxes -- you basically need the population to agree to tax themselves more on the ballot. It's unfortunate, really, since the population of the state increases by a third or so in the summer due to tourists -- a sales tax would allow said tourists to pay the residents taxes for them. Oregon has been running at a level of services many other states would find inadequate for years (and ranks very low on state tax burden). However, I've never heard as much whining about taxes as I did when I lived there -- there's sort of a cultural level of resistance to taxation there that I've never seen elsewhere.

Yeah. When I lived there, I really thought the taxes sucked. Then in January, I moved to Seattle and am learning what taxes are all about.
 
IIRC, when I lived in New York, they basically had a "close enough" version of the use tax - each year, you could pay $30 tax on out-of-state purchases, or you could document your real liability. Naturally, most people just paid the $30, which I thought was entirely reasonable.
NY does require a payment of estimated use tax if you don't calculate actual, though it's a graduated, income-based amount. I believe the maximum is $200 (assuming you haven't made any purchases of $1,000 or more).
 
Missed the edit window to add:

Let me couch the above with an "I think". When I was looking into use tax earlier this year my goal was only to find out which online retailers (if any) charged sales tax in California. I came across information about other states as a by product of that research, but as it wasn't really all that important to me at the time I sort of glossed over it. It is possible that I am misremembering the information.
 
Does anyone know anything about this.

Another person chiming in, as I'm sure you've already been told this repeatedly, to say you're a fucking 'tard. AFAIK most or all states work this way; they just count on you to self-report.

Seriously, my mom taught me this the first time I bought something out of a catalog like twenty years ago.
 
It's from the State Board of Equalization, P.O. Box 942879 (boe.ca.gov).

Yup.....I got one for my business....asking me to create a new "Use Tax Account". My wife has been making some online office supply purchases that didn't add sales tax. It's gonna be fun digging those receipts up......maybe about 10 purchases per year and about $1000 total of purchases......about $100 per year in payments.
 
It's just my understanding of US politics is that the states all hate each other AND the Federal Government, and none of them can ever agree whose problem/responsibility a particular thing is.

I mean, I strongly suspect that if Australia had a different sales tax in each State, the Commonwealth Government would have passed legislation years (if not decades) ago to the effect that retailers operating via mail or internet order and shipping to another state had to collect that state's sales tax.

As it is, we've got a national GST, which really does simplify things. I'd suggest the US look into it, but we all know that's never going to happen.
 
The thing I'm trying to work out is why you're required to pay a (local) sales tax on something purchased in another state, and upon which you have (presumably) already paid a sales tax?

I understand that with The Internet there's a likelihood no sales tax has been paid at all, but even so... couldn't it be argued that the sale took place in the state where the company is headquartered, or something like that?

You'd think the solution would be a national, consistent GST- but I can already hear the cries of the pitchfork and burning torch salesmen should anyone important actually, seriously suggest such a thing be implemented...
 
Assisting states with their tax collecting operations is none of the (US) Federal government's business.
 
Yeah. When I lived there, I really thought the taxes sucked. Then in January, I moved to Seattle and am learning what taxes are all about.

Ha, I moved from Seattle to San Diego in 2008 - hello, CA state income tax! I am making about the same salary, with less take home pay AND last year, I owed the state when I did my taxes. Zoinks!
 
Back
Top