I just got screwed by the police

M

Meg150

New member
Mike,

You misunderstand. As I stated before, I slightly adjusted one of your quotes in order to make your point clearer, not to insult.

As for the ethics of criminal defense, that's a weighty topic. Your post suggests that it's inherently unethical to defend people charged with murder, rape, and other serious crimes. You're not alone in that belief. Many people feel that way. Any American can pay lip-service to the "presumption of innocence," but very few really understand or believe in it.

And as for my opinion that we live in a police state, I stand by that. Your admission that you "only 'badged' your way out of a ticket less than half the time," or CAG's declaration that "he's not surrounded, but rather, at the center of a target-rich environment," only serves to strenthen my position.

I've traversed the globe many times and lived in what many Americans would call a "real," (again, to use your word), police state. I know a police state when I see one. But in the end I guess it depends on what you mean by "police state." For me, a "police state" is any place where the police don't obey the laws they're entrusted to enforce. Where they "badge" their way out of tickets, for example. If the shoe fits...

Elton
 
I sure enjoy these attorney / cop arguments its quite entertaining, A lot of good points have been stated here which is what i wanted to hear. I'm meeting with my lawyer next week, he recommended that i get a copy of my record at the dmv, which i did. It only cost me $12 for practically a blank piece of paper, I tell you the secretary of state sure likes to milk you for all you got - what a joke! I could careless of about the money that it will cost me to get out of the ticket, Id much rather give my lawyer money than the state,( actually id much rather live in an area that had honest cops that don't BS you just because your on a sport bike). i don't appreciate being accused of something that i didn't do.
 
If you think my quote strengthens your position we live in a police state, you have misunderstood my quote. It has nothing to do with my being a police officer. I have used that quote for years, long before I became a cop. It is more of a reflection on how I view adversity. I don't whine about my problems, I see them as challenges to be overcome.

Police officers using their influence to get out of traffic tickets does not make this a police state. It doesn't make it right, but it does nothing to make the police more powerful over you. You resent the double standard. That's understandable. If you think about it I'm sure you can find many professions where "professional courtesy" abounds.

Vae Victus.

CAG
 
F*CKING PIGS! I F*CKING HATE cops!! AND FOR THIS EXACT REASON! They're SUCH bastards and I've made it a POINT to screw them when I get a clear opportunity.

I ride like the rest -at times "crazy". I have a number of tickets --the only good thing about that is that I've learned a lot about how to fight them.

Depending on how old you are --with a perfectly clean record, you actually have a pretty good chance of fighting the ticket.
1st off; be PREPARED!! What does your citation say?? You SHOULD have a copy of it! If there are any mistakes, they could get you off the hook -without an argument.

Also, keep in mind; citations are all about money. You look fast, you sound fast, you're a perfect target.
Did you see the cop when you passed him? Were there other cars between you and him, or were you all alone?

What did he tag you with? If he marked laser, at what distance? a motorcycle-especially a thin one like a duc isn't going to be an easy target; Radar needs to be ON you and you specifically. While a laser can tag you in traffic, a radar CANNOT. Radars will only pick up the closest object in their direct path; you could be doing 150 --if you're behind a car that's going 55, the radar won't pick it up: it has to be a clear path.

If you're really serious about fighting this, you can subpoena the cop's records. You should be able to get a complaint history on that officer (maybe he's done this in the past? likely.) You can definitely get the history and calibration report of the radar/lidar gun he used to tag you -if one doesn't exist, it wasn't calibrated and you're off the hook.
When you subpoena those records, they have a limited amount of time to respond -and they're required to. If they don't, you could argue that you weren't provided the information required to prove your innocence and you move to dismiss the citation.

Above all, keep photo copies of EVERYTHING!! you'll need 'em as proof!

get on this early and do your research on IL traffic laws. Cops are required to follow strict steps when handing out citations.

Also, contact the dept. of transportation for IL. Request information on speed limits for where you were pulled over. It's not entirely uncommon for towns to change speed limits illegally without going through the state. If the records don't match up, you've got more evidence on your side.

If you have a friend that's a cop, ask him more info --or better yet, have him pull some strings for you. I got off of a $470 ticket (twice the speed limit) once that way. They do it all the time.
If you DON'T have a friend as a cop, don't talk to any cops for advice. It'll work against you completely.

There are a number of things you can do. It really comes down to the details of the case. Do your research, be able to quote the laws (print them out and highlight them), have notes ready. You can ask the officer questions. (in MA), you don't have to answer questions you've been asked. The cop will try to trick you into admitting you're guilty of speeding --at which point it doesn't matter how fast you were really going.

Also, if your speedo is off, get a mechanic to write and sign a statement to that effect. You NEED that if you want to argue that point (and you'll have to since the cop is going to mention what you said about the speedometer)!!

Get cracking! You can beat this, but you have to be thorough. Definitely mention you clean record and driving style.
And by all means, don't let this get you down. Get yourself a good radar detector and take your bike out. Don't make it suffer!
 
If it's a bum ticket, fight it.

Not all cops are a like. One of my best friends is a cop and he rides a R6. Obviously he doesn't single out sport bike riders.

On the flip side, ride a sport bike down PCH through Huntington Beach. If any of you have done it... you know.

There are always jacka$$es out there that will ruin it for the rest of us law abiding citizens.
 
CAG

I understand the quote, and your use of it, perfectly. You've chosen the metaphore of "a target-rich environment" to describe how, given the right mind set, one can prevail even in the face of overwhelming odds. It's a nice turn of phrase to describe an admirable approach to life.

I trust we can agree there are many different ways to make this point. One could speak, for example, of, "the opportunity inherent in adversity." It's also been said that, "When the going gets tough, the tough get going." Not exactly the same point, but certainly along the same vein. The Spanish say, There is no bad from which good doesn't come." Again, not exactly the same thing, but related. Given time we could come up with hundreds of alternate ways to say this same thing.

And yet, notwithstanding the universe of metaphores available at your fingertips, you've chosen the metaphore of "a target-rich environment" to make this point. It is your choice of the "target-rich" metaphore, (rather than the point itself), I was referencing when I cited your quote in support of my position that we live in a police state.

The American Heritage Dictionary defines a "target" as "an object with a marked surface that is shot at to test accuracy," "an object of criticism or attack," or alternately, as "a goal." I understand that in the context of your quote, you're using the word "target" as a metaphore for "goal" rather than referring literally to a target, (at least I hope so!).

And yet, even as a metaphore, I'm troubled by your use of the word "target." For me, adversaries are not "targets." I'm not comfortable with anyone, (much less a police officer!), using the word, "target" in reference to his fellow man. The fact that you've chosen this particlular metaphore speaks for itself, and IMHO, is consistent with the police state mentality that prevails in our country.

BTW, your decision to close with, "Vae Victus", (which translates to, "Woe to the Conquered", or alternately, "Woe to the Vanquished,") is, for the same reason, equally troubling, and also supportive of my position that we live in a police state. I prefer that police not think in terms of conquering. IMO, policing is not about "conquering", or the "woe" that befalls the conquered. An indicator that things are awry, (or, said another way, that we live in a "police state",) is when the police have a "Woe to the conquered" mentality.

As for your second point, namely that "police officers using their influence to get out of traffic tickets does nothing to make the police more powerful," I respectfully have to disagree. You're right when you point out that many professions extend professional courtesty to their own. The difference being though, when a doctor or lawyer cuts one of his own a break, he's being courteous, and when a police officer turns a blind eye to crime committed by his brother officer in the name of "professional courtesy," he's being a criminal.

When police officers "use their influence to get out of traffic tickets", they, (as well as the police officers who let the law-breaking cop go), are breaking the law. If police are not subject to the same laws as the rest of us, they are above the law. Being above the law is power. It is in fact this very power that defines a King.

The saddest part of this discussion is that police will come on-line, openly admit that they "badge" their way out of tickets, and then rationalize their criminal conduct in the name of "professional courtesy." Wake up America, that's what happens in a police state! This is what a "real" police state looks like!

Peace, Elton
 
From your American Heritage Dictionary:
police state
n. A state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic, and political life of the people, especially by means of a secret police force.

That doesn't sound like the America I live in.
 
Cag,

Doesn't sound like the America you live in?

Then what would you call it when armies of unmarked and/or hidden, (AKA, "secret"), police lay in waiting for unsuspecting motorists, and then cite them for breaking rules that they themselves don't bother to follow? If that's not a secret police force exercising repressive control over our social and economic life, then what is?

Sure sounds like the America I live in.

It's pretty sad you don't see exactly how represive this is. Of course, why would you? You're not subject to this repression.

Peace, Elton
 
I have to agree. It does sound pretty familiar. The deeper I get into the system, the more I see that the (lighter) criminals are the ones that seem to be leading a "free" life. The rest of use get screwed by the cops, the DMV, the magistrates who are friends with the cops and see all civilians as law-breakers (what ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?!?), the judges, the under-paid state workers who control your life, etc.

Seems like the only way to get things done in a realistic time-frame is to cut corners. I've only run into 1 cop who really seemed like he was "good". He pulled me over for doing 47 in a 35 when I wasn't speeding and admitted that he probably tagged the other car that pulled off the road. He apologized and let me go immediately. I couldn't believe it!! I was SHOCKED that there was actually a police officer that admitted to being WRONG.

It's not something I mention to a lot of people because I really wasn't speeding --so didn't "get away with" anything. But that's the only instance.

I've been in the same situation as the original poster --I've been pulled over on my R6 by a dirty state cop who said he clocked (estimated my speed by following me at my speed for a mile) me doing 90 in HEAVY traffic during lunch time on the highway. F*CKING LIAR. But I still had to pay the fine because the cop exaggerated my speed and the magistrate didn't care to hear anything I had to say. Where's the justice? Who could I go to to have this remedied?! I can't; because there's no one that's going to listen and take action because there's no way I can prove it because I'm not prepared for this to happen to me and don't know the system as well as the police.

Why does everyone think cops are a**holes? Because a lot of them are and don't bother to try to distinguish who's doing serious damage/crimes and who's a generally good citizen.

Next time I get pulled over or need help, show me a cop who doesn't look down on me and I'll start singing a different tune.

-Patryk
 
I've heard of unmarked or hidden cars being called many things but I've never heard anyone onther than you refer to them as secret police. Armies of them? They wouldn't be very secret if there were armies of them now would they? Citing unsuspecting motorists (unsuspecting of what? Are the motorists doing something wrong)? It's called enforcing the law and that is what we are paid to do. If you are not breaking the law there is nothing for us to enforce.

What is a "secret police force exercising repressive control over our social and economic life"? Unamed, unacountable, government officials coming to your house and taking three of your 4 bikes because no one needs four motorcycles and certainly not red ones. THAT is a police state.

You are well travelled, no? You have spent time in south America and behind the Iron Curtain before it fell? Then you know what a police state is.

No one in uniform is repressing your rights. Don't like driving 55? Change the law. Even before I became a cop I didn't feel like I was living in a Police state even though I got my fair share of tickets. In fact, I just paid one in Mass. that was 11 years old! (I didn't even know I had it.)

We don't live in a police state. You are just honked off that cops can get away with traffic violations that you may or may not be able to.

CAG
 
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