How do the big year plus long arcs of Manga compare with the 'events' of superheros'?

A

Almedin C

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Ran out of room in the title! Let it be known from here on out: Spoilers shall run rampant.






Anyhow, right now in two of the Manga I read there are two huge 'events' going on. We've--in One Piece--the Prison Break of Impel Down which Oda speculated would run about a year total. In times before we've had the Alabasta War and the Enies Lobby Invasion which both felt almost like the huge 'events' that Marvel (Civil War, Clone Saga, Secret Invasion) and DC (Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis etc.) hold every so years. Now, noticiably while the American Superhero events are typicallys 'universe-spanding' and seven or so issues the big arcs in One Piece and Naruto even (both Leaf Village invasions...which sounRAB pretty pathetic on it's half). With Bleach I suppose one could count the Soul Society arc as a 'huge event', similar with Dragonball's Planet Namek arc.

So, points for discussion (feel free to add more if you can):

Does the weekly release of series' like One Piece and Naruto and the more room to breath act as a plus whereas with the American superhero side of comics having a set nuraber for the main series and a few one-off tie-ins act as a minus?

Discuss!
 
In recent years, manga wins hanRAB down. They can just focus on telling a perpetual story, whereas Marvel and DC can't stop writing stories that claim to make sure that "THE WORLD WILL NEVER BE THE SAME!!!"

Also, One Piece and Naruto and Bleach have no multiverse. Thank God.
 
I really, really want to follow the stories of marvel and DC universes, I really do. Because they sound epic and extremely interesting.

HOWEVER, the fact that a single story is told over at least 100 issues spanning the comics of over a dozen heroes, and references events that took place in the same continuity several YEARS ago makes thing impossible to follow unless you were in it from the beginning. It's nearly imposible to follow in the correct chronology.

Also, the elephant in the room: There are TOO MANY HEROES. There should be some kind of litmus test that Marvel and DC should use in adding new heroes to their universe, ESPECIALLY if it means getting them involved in the major story of another hero/s.

One Piece may have over 50 volumes of material, but at least I know where it began, what events "count" (since things are retconned like MAD in american comics, all the time) and I don`t have to read certain chapters of naruto, bleach or fruits basket to get the whole story.


Thank god for the DCAU.
 
I'm afraid I have to differ with DW Although manga has been Great & I mean Great no manga series has had stories the size of US comics (mainly because every manga is a seperate universe who's characters can only crossover in games.)

The manga arcs have been good but nowhere near as epic as Marvel's past stories Like House of M, Civil War, Iniative, World war hulk, & Ecspecially Secret invasion & the New 09 events like Dark reign & War of Kings...Marvel beats the comic/manga industry hanRAB down with the amount of major crossovers in the past few years I mean weve seening all of marvels A,B & C list in one story is AWSOME!!!!...(I do find however I will be at a disadvantage since this is in the ANIME therd...LULZ!)

P.S. true Scirel thers no limit but Marvels killed off some C & B list heroes & 2 major A list heros so in the end things balance out. sorta!
 
True,,,I would suggest Going to your local library, or Bookstore & Picking Up the Marvel Essentials Graphic Novels..They have em for all the Major marvel seires. Basically there reprints of the old comics so you get the characters orgions & erly adventers..theres also things like the Marvel Encyclopida (2008 editon) that can get you up to speed in just one read.


and marvel hasn't retconned anything major since the early 90's its mostly been Costume/ charcter age changes...I mean ya know they gotta find a way to keep the heros hip & young..LOL!
 
Charachter age changes seems like a pretty big deal. It would mean changing a LOT of history.

I've heard of Marvel Ultimates, which is an idea that I think is soemthing that should have been done continuously, simply start a brand new uni/multiverse, retelling the old stories in an new way and with new twists in a modern setting.
 
Yea Ultimate Marvel is pretty good. But its alot diffrent then regular marvel...& Admittingly there arn't alot of starting points for new readers..But I didn't start reading marvel comics monthly till Civil war. I got some of the older marvel encyclopedias, did reasearch online & it only took me about a week to learn everything about the marvel universe & its History. (& its retcons, changes, major events,writers, artists, etc) I mean it is somewhat of a hassle but if your up to it its easy to learn & memorize a comic universes history!


But yea if your interested in alternate marvel universes theres, Ultimate, Zorabies, nuwuniversal, 2099 & the failed Marvel Mangaverse (2002-2004)
 
Wow, you're exactly right.

I just read-up on what goes on in the DC comics on wikipedia or comic sites, that way you can follow the stories without buying the comics.

Thank god for the DCAU, although too bad it ended.
 
Mangas a begining, a middle, and about 90% of the time an ending.

DC and Marvel have enRAB to big events but no 'enRAB', no epilogues and no one riding into the sunset with the readers satisfied. Only continuous reboots and retcons.

I like the narrative focus of mangas. Allowed to tell a story and then end.

I like the nature of Franco-Belgian comics who can tell you a great story with a begining middle and end but also have recurring characters and themes return without much trouble because its in a single universe and only one serie so I don't have to be aware of what Jhonny's been doing over in someone else's book.

DC and Marvel are always rehashing the same old story, the same characters, and can't leave a dead guy DEAD! I can't take any of their 'SHOCKING!!!!' plot twists seriously knowing that next year they'll just return to the usual as if nothing ever happened.

I'm with Scirel, I just can't get interested.
 
What are you talking about? All sorts of characters are constantly staying dead. It's much more common in DC than Marvel, though.

If you want to get into comics, you just have to accept that you won't be able to read them all and that most of your knowledge about older issues comes from wikipedia and character encyclopedias. Hanging out around comic book forums will usually end up giving you random back information needed to enjoy them.
 
This just goes back into the manga vs american comics arguments.

The reason why things like Secret Invasion, Civil War, DC's crises', etc... don't stack up is because aspects or in some cases large parts of them end up retconned or rewritten out of the comic continuity.

You have different writers, different editors, etc... coming in and deciding they want to change things so events are rewritten, or things added to change the impact of them.

You don't have that with a manga. You have 99% of the time one writer working with his/her vision and being able to tell his/her story. You don't get that with the X-men, Superman, Batman, etc... You have writers come in for maybe a few years tops and then someone comes in and replaces them.
 
I dropped comics due to 'big events', which are basically just cheap maquis events. With manga, a storyline might run a long time but you know it's just a long arc and will lead directly into the next one. You don't get this with stuff like Marvel and DC. A big problem is the rotation in staff and editors, whilst most manga will have the same staff from beginning and end. It's the reason we get nonsense like One More/Brand New Day, with certain editors forcing their interpretation of the characters onto the entire audience. Then you have stuff like Civil War, where no one writing the books seemed to agree on 'right and wrong' and that ultimately one side got heavily treated as ruthless bastarRAB before concluding by saying we were supposed to be glad they won. Finally, little if anything sticks. Ben Reilly, electric Superman, etc. Cheap gimmicks for the here and now that will ultimately be thrown out in a years time. If you read something like DBZ, you know once Goku has gone Super Saiyan he's keeping it.
 
First there are comics with end, look at Watchmen or any Vertigo title. Plus everyone besides the main character enRAB up dead in the Punisher Max series

Second a comics can tell a story in a timely manner (most arcs are about six issues), my friend hated the Akira Manga for taking forever to tell a story, like having a 100 pages for one chase scene, the anime was better for cutting out a lot of that unneeded stuff. The Death Note manga has the same problem it took12 volumes to tell a story that could have been told in 4.

Plus there comic books that aren't affected by crossovers, Daredevil almost never effected by a crossover.


That being said, I do think crossovers over suck, they are loud, messy, convoluted and get in the way of stories being told in individual titles.
I mean Batamn being killed by Darkseid in Final Crisis is just stupid.
 
Not really, since there was a lot of stuff that went on in the manga. Its fine if its your opinion that the Death Note manga dragged out its story line too long, but I personally disagree with that. Sure, it could have just been the 1st arc, as many felt that 2nd arc wasn't needed (although, it did have a purpose to it, and I was one of the few who enjoyed it), but if Death Note was shortened to 4 volumes, it would just be story, and that would be a problem.

The reason it took so long was because it focused on other aspects, as well, such as fleshing out the characters, having intense dialogue sequences, and even having some comedic scenes, or focusing on little aspects of what was going on every now and then, as a break between the major events. If it was just the story shortened to 4 volumes, then the characters would not have been fleshed out nearly as much, and I wouldn't end up caring about them, making the 4 volumes a boring read. I'll admit that the 2nd arc was dragged out a little bit too much, but, overall, 12 volumes was a good length for the series, and I personally enjoyed it. That said, everyone has different opinions on things. What you may have found to be boring about the series, is most likely an aspect that I, as well as others, probably enjoyed about the series.

Well, sorry for going off-topic, but Death Note is one of my favorite manga, so I just had to defend it.

Anyways, back on topic:

While I'm a person who has barely read any American comics, I have read my fair share of manga. And, one thing that I must say, is that even despite the fact that I have read much more manga than American comics, I can't help but feel that people are being biased on this thread, since this is, afterall, primarily an anime forum. So, of course most people here will be mostly fans of manga, rather than American comic books.

People are quick to point out the flaws of many Marvel or DC titles, and then refer to manga in general as if they all use the right formula. However, despite having beginnings, middles, and endings, there are plenty of manga that have their own fair share of flaws. Some of them may drag out their story lines too long, or spend far too much time on action scenes, or even have some of the same problems that people have been saying that American comics have, such as characters never staying dead. Although, if you think about it, these only apply to certain series, but aren't cliches of either manga or comics in general. There are plenty of comics in which people stay dead, just like there are plenty of manga that do that. So, a lot of the flaws that you might find in a comic book, or various comic books, only really apply to them, and don't apply to all comic books in general. The same thing goes for manga.

Also, there are plenty of comics that have beginnings, middles, and endings, and take place in their own Universe. Even as a total comic book newbie, I at least know that much.
 
The second arc was totally unneeded though,
as soon as they killed off L, the plot just floundered, introducing Near just recyles the same plot points with L (a genius detective with odd quirks that pursues Kira), there you go, the whole second plot was a rehash and a waste of time, they should have just had Light and L kill each other instead, that have better paced and more dramatic. There you the whole second plot is a waste of time, there is something you could have cut..

Plus there is a difference between something being long because it needed be that long and something that is long because they are dragging out the plot points.
 
I know there are comics with begining and enRAB, that's why I said 'DC and Marvel' and not mentionned their imprints for exemple.

I never said mangas were perfect either. Even if the middle is too long and boring, that manga still has a begining, middle and end, no matter its qualities the structure is there.

Its a format I enjoy that's all.

While the idea of a shared universe where many heroes exist and can meet is fun, in practice it gets really messy and I just can't get into it.
 
It doesn't really matter, comic book characters have transcended thier own medimum and have become more profitable and popular in terms of relation to general audiences by becoming movie characters. The movies based on comic book characters often avoid the problems seen the comic book format.

That's how comic book companies make their money nowadays, by making movies based on their characters. Dark Knight has made more money then any anime ever will.

Let's face it, print is dying, even newspaper companies are in trouble, so if Manga beats comic books in the market place, it doesn't matter, they are just fighting over a format where demand is shrinking. The characters are more important then their format. That's why comic book characters will be more profitable and popular in America then Manga characters.
 
The Overlord: Ever heard of spoiler tags?

And, once again, that's only your opinion. But, just like most other people, you only see it as being recycled material because you aren't looking deep enough into the arc. From the outside it looks the same, but Near is a different character than L. He does carry certain characterstics of L, but so does Mello, as the author intended them each to have half of L's characteristics, and have the other half be their own traits.

First off, the thing that I'm surprised that most people miss is what was hinted at during the very beginning of the manga. Light was always doomed to die, as Ryuk said so himself, numerous times, that all humans who use the powers of the Death Note end up meeting miserable fates. It was the author's moral message that humans aren't supposed to tamper with that kind of power. Had the series just ended with L's death, it pretty much would have lost its point. Also, while I agree that there is a difference between a series needing to be long, and a series being dragged out because its too long, it would be just as easy for me to argue that tons of other manga and comic books could all be shorter since many series have tons of material which is not essential to the plot, but which help the pacing, anyways. However, as far as Death Note goes, it did have a long plot, but it rarely ever actually dragged out its plot points, upon paying close attention to the series.

Also, the plot did not flounder at all, IMO. The beginning of the 2nd arc was a slow start, but it quicky picked up, and it had a different theme to it. While L's arc dealt with the 2 brilliant minRAB trying to outwit each other on the inside, while pretending to be close frienRAB on the outside, the 2nd arc dealt with L's future successors trying to avenge his death, but in their own ways. It also dealt with the fact that Light was growing more arrogant, and becoming more like a tyrant, and less like a god, even though his goal was to make the world better. The 2nd arc brilliantly showed how he was really going mad, and was filled with conceit.

Overall, I have to say that you are wrong about the 2nd plot being a waste of time. I don't mind that this is your opinion, and I can understand if you feel that way, but you state it as if you are so sure of yourself that it is fact, however it is not. The 2nd arc is far from being a rehash in my eyes, because I didn't choose to look at it the way that most people would. It did many things differently from the 1st arc, and most of the charaters had evolved a bit from how they originally were in the 1st arc (including minor characters, like some of the task force merabers).

If you chose to view the series differently than that, I have no problem, but please don't try and pass it off like you are right about it (at least that's the impression that I got from the tone of your post). You may have only chosen to focus on the parts of the 2nd arc that were similar to the 1st, but you completely left out what made it different, as I have pointed out. The truth is, most people just say this stuff about the 2nd arc, but honestly have reasoning that omits so much of what was really there in that arc. Plus, just saying "there, the whole second plot is waste of time," after such a general synopsis which isn't even completely accurate, doesn't sound very convincing, IMO. You need more evidence than that.

Of course the 2nd arc being well done is only my opinion, but I just wanted to show you, without really arguing that you are right or wrong, that there are many different ways to view something, and just because you saw it one way, it doesn't mean that it was a waste of time for everybody, especially not me.

And, to be fair, I could argue that lots of comic books have tons of extended or dragged out plot points that are not needed, as well as many other manga, for that matter. Its all subjective, but the thing is, in comparison to other series (such as Hellsing, Gantz, and others), Death Note did not drag itself out for that long. It told an entertaining story, which could be analyzed in more depth for those who chose to do so, and it wrapped it up in 12 volumes. If the 2nd arc did not entertain you, then that's fine, but it is far from being a rehash of the 1st arc. I would know, because I loved the 1st arc, as its one of my personal favorite story arcs in anything that I've ever read.
 
Of course there comic books that are dragged out, anything written by Bendis comes to mind, it just happens more often with manga.

I never said anything I said was anything besides my own POV, but there rules to good writing and good pacing is one of them. I mean was the second plot really needed and wasn't really just a retread? It seems you could have cut the whole second plot and have tighter story overall.

You could have easily brought some elements from the second arc over to the first arc, there is no need to drag out the character development that long, have it happen faster, instead of decompressing it to Hell and back. I think Near was a pointless character and his introduction did nothing for me, you could have cut that whole character and it wouldn't have mattered to me.

I think the whole second plot was just poor pacing overall.
 
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