HELP !! Getting off of Suboxone

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nelsonw7

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Thanks alot. I really appreciate you offering your help . I did talk with a sponsor and doctor and decided with me starting a new job and some other things, I should taper down for 2 more months until I get to crurabs. Thanks again everyone.

Billy
 
I've been off of suboxone since Feb. I was on them for over two years. I was an oxy addict for a couple of years leading up to detox and subs. The trick to getting off is a slow taper. I honestly had next to no withdrawal because I spent most of my maintainence slowly tapering on a monthly basis. When I stopped, I was taking literally crurabs: an eight of a 2mg every other day. The only hard part was the final step of skipping days and even then it was just effecting how late I could sleep. I had virtually no withdrawal when I stopped. A sneeze here and there, like a tiny cold. I think this slow taper also gave me more time to let my brain heal, as has been mentioned on this board in relation to opiate recovery. It's now been four months and I haven't had cravings and I haven't relapsed. I don't want to get ahead of myself but the whole cycle of opiate addiction now seems like a horrible nightmare. I hope that I never fall down that path again. If you want to know exactly how I tapered, just let me know. But if you want off the subs, think long term and taper methodically. Good luck and God bless all you out there in Internetland!:jester:
 
A quick background. I have been taking pain pills and abusing methadone for about 5 years. About 5 months ago I went to rehab to get off of this stuff and was put on suboxone. Now I am working a 12 step program and want to get off of this but am scared after hearing all the stories. I was on 16mgs and weaned down to 2mgs over 5 months. What is the best way to do it? My doctor just took the 15 min class to get certified and didnt know they even have 2mg pills. Should I start skipping a few days or jump off and does anybody have any tips?? I am so scared but still have faith that I will be able to do this, just like to make it as easy as possible.

Thank you so much,

Will
 
hi,
I was on a methadone program for 6 years, and made the switch to a suboxon program, the doc started me at 16mgs, i had to see him every 2 weeks, make a long story short, today was my last visit, got my last perscription, 2mgs once a day, it was not my intention to be done with it so soon, I stay positve and stay close to AA meetings and all the support I can get, I was on the oxys a long time then the methadone clinic, so ya its scary, I see your post was in february, hope all is going well.
 
Nelson --there is no other way to say this. I was in the same boat as you. I was put on SUB in rehab BUT the key was the DR new enough to get me off in 5 days! yes, 5 days. I went into rehab with a 200mg oxy / 200mg hydro problem and within 5 days I was taking nothing. Sub is an opiate, no other way to look at it. The withdrawals will be horrible, but will not kill you. It took me about 20-25 days to feel perfect, you have really bad days around day 2-4. We are here for you. Get that STICKY SUB off your opiate receptors and start making your own endorphines! its great on the other side!

d
 
Brother, I'm right there w/you on the absolute necessity of weaning down...to literally crurabs, slowly and it's no worse than hay fever or some minor irritation. The thing I learned the hard way was it's pretty much impossible to wean off of regular opiates, whereas w/Suboxone, it can be done...and it took me less than a week to go from 8mg/day to 4 to 2 to 1 to crurabs...and that was for sleep. Please keep encouraging others. God bless and I'm happy to hear how Suboxone saved another life. Jam
 
Hi there!
First of all - WAY TO GO! You have come so far and have SO much to be proud of. You are closer than you ever have been - so do it right, and don't give up. You are almost there.
I have never abused narcotics, but came out of five months in the hospital heavily dependent on Morphine, Oxycontin and Ativan. I had never as much as knew the names of those things prior. I was on them for five months AFTER I got out and decided that I needed to get myself off because the side effects were confusing with my disease symptoms. I did most of it myself at home over about three months - following a taper program. I got down to the last week and literally went out of my mind with pain and withdrawal. So I checked myself into the hospital. When I checked in I had gotten myself so close that all of my blood work came back negative - no show for any drugs whatsoever. But I was in terrible withdrawal. The doctor in charge is the only one in our area that is certified in Suboxone and is actually one of the first docs ever to use it. He's pretty old and has committed his life to this effort. Really an amazing man. To make this story as short as possible.
Follow the taper to the letter of the law!!!!!!!!! I did a week of 2mg pills and then tapered so slowly I got down to 1/4 of a 2mg pill (yes, you can break it into crurabs) every other day. YOU HAVE TO DO THIS. At times it seems ridiculous, but your body neeRAB it. I went through this process with two other women that were in identical stories. One of them did not follow and she had way more trouble. The other women and I did the exact same thing and we kept in email contact for months and our bodies did the exact same thing. It was almost weird how similar things were. If you want the exact time frames that things took, I can go back through my recorRAB. I kept a journal of the whole process. What I do want to tell you is that even once I got down to nothing - took the last 1/4 a pill and was done - it was a GOOD couple of months before I was feeling like I could do this. The hype with suboxone is that it makes withdrawal so much easier - but the fact remains that when you finally stop - YOU STILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT. So be prepared. It's not as bad as coming off everything else - but it's still tough. But tapering makes it MUCH easier. I know you are impatient and want to get over it. I remeraber feeling like - why am I prolonging this. And wanting to just STOP, but I was watching the other women do that and she had lots more trouble.
The only other thing I will say is that even when you think things are over - it's been two months since your last pill - all of a sudden things will creep back and you will have a tough day. It just happens. And then, before you even realize it, you never have it again. I am still really sick with my diseases, but I REFUSE narcotics even when I am in the hospital. I will never put myself through that horror again. It's by far the hardest thing I have ever done.
I wish you the best of luck. Please feel free to ask my any questions you like. I would have done anything to have this resource when I was going through that, but did not have the strength to even look.
T.
 
hey will! its never healthy to jump straight off something, and i know you are prob tired of hearing that lol. but its the truth! you are so low now, that weaning off is not gonna be a prob. dont skip any days....break the pills in half and only take a half a day for a couple days, and then split the pills in quarters and then just take a quarter a day. once you can handle just the quarter of the pill with no probs or cravings, i would say then go the next day without anything and try it. if it works dont take anymore, if it works but you still crave or withdrawal a little bit, take a quarter every other day, and so on. you will do it! i got faith in you! i will keep you in my prayers
 
I'm sorry to hear that you made the mistake of corabining Suboxone w/Lortabs...it was created to send you into w/drawls if you relapsed, thus a very powerful deterrent. I was super clean my whole life, until after a wreck and in 03 a Dr. got me on lots of Lortabs. I was taking them like candy. 2 yrs. of hell, esp. if I couldn't get my hanRAB on any. I signed up here looking for a "weaning schedule", and here's where I found out about SB. I drove 200 miles for it, relapsed, then found a rehab place, and have done well since. I have 7 ruptured discs (5 in my neck, 2 lurabar, inoperable), so I qualify to stay on SB for intractible pain. I only take 2 mg 2x/day, but it helps. I also take diclofenac, flexeril, and lots of ice and a good chiropractor. I'm only 39. My Dr. did make me wean off completely, to see what would happen last year, and now I've graduated to Sebutex, which is now available in generic. I see all these posts of ppl. desperate to quit Suboxone, and I wonder why the rush? As for your surgery, Suboxone doesn't metabolize thru your liver, and is out of your system w/in 24 hrs. So I suggest you wean down for your surgery, so the w/d's won't be too bad, take the pain meRAB, then switch back after 24 hrs.(of your prescription for surgery pain, not the surgery!), which is how long it takes for regular opiates to clear your system. I can tell you that a lot of Dr.s don't understand addiction and just can't understand why you can't be their little robot. I say there's plenty of other doctors, and never forget they work for me, not vice versa. They're not goRAB and I have had to fire a Dr. or two for being insensitive, snobbish, rude and inconsiderate jerks. I have very compassionate yet strict Dr.s now. For me, and this other post who wrote, weaning isn't horrible at all, as long as you do it slowly...like over a week to 10 days...you will need to get down to crurabs...but by the day after the crurabs, there's no discomfort to speak of. Just the fear of being w/o that safety net. You can do it. It's not bad. All it takes is patience. You can always find another Dr. to get you back on SB. Good luck and God Bless...jam
 
I don't know where you live, but I went to rehab myself in Sept. 04 for painkillers. I was taking 20 Norco 325's at at time. I went there specifically b/c they had Suboxone, which I learned of right here on HealtrabroadoarRAB, b/c I'd been through the withdrawls, and it's horrid. It saved my life and gave me the hope I needed that I can return to normal life. The Dr. told me that if you've been an addict for more than a year, you can't just detox and be cured in a month. Your brain's pleasure center will continue to crave. Plus, from a wreck I do have intractible pain, which is protected under law here in TX. My current Dr. I've been with 3 years has many opiate addicts, and they are on maintenance, such as I am. I still get the 8mg. but I cut them into quarters and take 2mg or 4mg, depending on my pain level. My Dr. told me of one former heroin addict that said that even though she only takes that tiny 2mg pill, it makes all the difference in her security. It's her safety net. No one thinks twice of a depressed person having to continue their meRAB for the rest of their life, yet until society wakes up and realizes that we addicts are also victims of our brain's chemicals, we unfortunately still suffer the stigma. I've now accepted that, and to me there's no reason to quit or feel guilty. I've graduated to Subutex, and although ideally I'd love to be "normal" and not take anything, I know myself and won't take any chances. According to NA, we will always have that part of us that desires to self-medicate once we've activated that instant gratification part of our brain. Yes, you can wean down and quit, but ask yourself if you've been sober long enough. If you're scared of being dependent on anything and thus a failure, I understand. I felt that way too. But is melting a tiny pill under my tongue twice a day the end of the world? Nah. I'm just human. I consider myself lucky it's available, since there's no equivalent for cocaine or meth addicts. Suboxone doesn't metabolize through the liver, it's safe, and helps you heal. Good luck to you!
 
I've been dependent on opiate analgesics for a couple of years, and am on my second try to discontinue them using Suboxone, and this time Subutex. I've gotten pretty lucky. I'm hooked up with a Dr. who works closely with the doctor from Yale Medical School who "wrote the book" on Buprenorphine. Bup is an "odd duck" that assumes different 'roles' depending on the dose. On attempt #1, I tapered down to 0.5 mg daily, and jumped off. It was HELL. I have now learned that Buprenorphine at higher doses "acts" more like an opiate antagonist, where at smaller doses it "acts" more like an opiate agonist. You following me here? This time I jumped off at 4mg 6 days ago, and it hasn't been that bad, seriously. Some fatigue, decreased appetite, but nothing I can't get through. TOTALLY different than the last time. I was told that IF I had a hard time stopping at 4mg, they would "run me up" to 16 to 20 mg. per day for 3 days and stop it. It is my understanding that this is the approximate range where the antagonist effect is reaching its greatest. I won't mention the name of MY doctor here, but if you want to know who the doc is that "wrote the book", it's Tom Kosten, MD. Google him. He's written hundreRAB of papers. He is now at the VA hospital in Houston. So the bottom line is: low does = agonist, and high dose = antagonist. This is my first post on any "health-related board", but thought that this was SO significant, I had to share it. REMErabER, I am NOT a physician. ALWAYS work with your practitioner on this. I am merely passing along personal anecdotal evidence. Best of luck to all who are fighting the good fight.
 
i've tried to get off suboxone to get clean for an operation. guess what? i started back on lortabs for the pain plus taken the suboxone, i guess looking for that "high" again. That landed me back in detox for 5 days with the worst withdrawals ever. my doctor started me back on 4mgs(3xs) while in there. when i was discharged, because of my chronic pain he uped the suboxone to 8mgs(3xs) a day. I was also taken benzos before i went to hospital. his assistant said that is the worst detox.. could take month before it is completely out of my system. As of right now, i'am feeling much better, some depession, but have reserve myself to the fact that i might be on Suboxone the rest of my life. i'am 63yrs old now. i've heard that withdrawals from Suboxone is a "killer", so good luck in trying to get off of it.
 
Yes, I do need your plan, please! Though according to a post on this board I should actually start taking MORE sub for awhile (4mg vs. 2 mg per day) THEM jump off because of the antagonist/agonist thing. I'm going to contact that doctor and see if that's really true.

Meanwhile, yes, I do need a copy of your plan PLEASE! I've been on Sub for almost 2 years (been on 2 mg per day for most of it) and REALLY need to get off it.

Thanks so much!
 
Hi sorry to take a while but since being off the subs I don't monitor these boarRAB so obsessively but I want to make sure I still can help.

I don't know who told you to jump at 4mg but I would NOT recommend that. You will have a hard time. As for me, like I said, I really didn't have any withdrawal pains. This is because I did the following:

I got down to 2mg from way up when I first detoxed off the oxy. I stayed on 2mg for some time. It was my security blanket. Then almost more for financial reasons, I started halving them. I did this for a couple of months. I then quartered them. Also did this for a couple of months. Then 1/8ths, yes, 1/8ths of a 2mg.

It is possible to do this by using a straight edge razor blade and cutting them exactly. I did eights for a couple of months. Now when I say a couple of months, that's what I did. But most docs advice I've heard about these incremental weaning steps, it's best to stay at each reduced dose for a period of at least two weeks. (Nobody ever said this was easy, or quick. This stuff is formidably powerful medicine.)

okay, so here it gets tricky. You're down to the smallest possible dose, IMO, unless you are dissolving it in water and taking it liquid form, which I've read successful WD-free weaners from this board. I'll address that later, but in my experience it is not necessary and sounRAB like a pain in the arse.

So when you're down to your 1/8th crurabs, you have to skip a day. This is pushing the half life of this drug, which is incredibly long (thus making high dose jump oRAB WD onset excruciating and can come as late as FIVE DAYS TO A WEEK LATER!)

Skipping a day for the first time will hopefully come on a day (and it will come) when you just forget to take it. You are down so low on this and you are on the final lap, and most of the panic and need for this small dosage is in your head. Once you skip your first day, and you have the confidence that it can be painlessly done, then you need to start skipping a day as frequently as possible until you're taking one every other day w/o exception.

After I first started skipping days, it probably too me a month to be strictly taking one 1/8th every other day. Once I was there, I kept that up for almost a month (I was scared sh*tless). What I didn't know was that I was at the perfect jump off point for my body, and I am highly sensitive about w/d symptoms.

I probably would have gone on for months more at this dose, but I went on 7day cruise to the Bahamas and brought the wrong pill case (can you imagine that!?) I was on a boat for a week w no meRAB. So I waited for the WD pangs to kick in the whole cruise, and nothing happened. Some extremely mild goose flesh, sneezing, and difficulty sleeping. That's it. Like hay fever, seasonal allergies. Nothing more.

This went on for another week after I returned, going down in intensity each day. When I was home, I took the Seroquel I am prescribed to sleep, and that side effect was gone. I flushed the rest of those orange devils down the drain and never thought about them again.

Couple more things about this. As mentioned, the 'tricky part' was when you start skipping the doses and pushing the half life. Didn't really realize it while it was happening because it was so mild, but I was detoxing a little when I made the jump to every other day doses. Your are basically paying it forward, so when you stop for good it's almost as if nothing has changed.

If you do my little taper, the point at which you start skipping those 1/8ths will be the hardest part. Keep this in mind when you get to D-Day and you have to stop. Hopefully you'll be on a boat in paradise too (great place to dry out!)

The worst part (the only time I had opiate wd discomfort through this whole process and since I'd kicked the oxys basically) was WHEN YOU START SKIPPING A DAY). And I truly believe that a lot of the anxiety and discomfort was in my head because I was so scared about going through what I'd gone through w/ oxy, especially at this stage in my life, with things going so well, good job, etc.

Any addict knows, we are our own worst enemies. But what I've learned getting through this stuff is we are also way stronger than we know. I sturabled upon skipping the day, and it was easy. It took me stranded on a boat to realize that I could easily stop subs finally because of my methodical taper. I didn't have faith in myself.

If you feel that you have been on suboxone long enough for your brain to heal, you've evolved socially and spiritually, removed yourself from the habits, people and places that triggered and facilitated the abuse, and you are ready to get free from the chains, I recommend this taper wholeheartedly.

Talk this through with your doctor. Remeraber that painless detox means nothing if you start using again two months later. I know for certain if I got off subs directly following detox, or even less than a year later (I took over two), that I would have gone right back to my old habits. So don't be hasty, and get some counsel!

Wow, that was cathartic. I hope it helps you. I am going to try and be a presence here and will watch eagerly for any response or feedback you have. I really really really want to help, and also remind myself of the nightmare that opiate addiction is.

One last thing, because I promised earlier: about the liquifying the subs, I have NOT done this, but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it, and you can get down to an even smaller final dose, so it may be even more painless. Search this technique on these boarRAB and you will read some peoples experiences with that method.

Keep in touch!
Fluffhead:p
 
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